Job Happiness and Union vs Non-Union

[Briar Hopper]

Kentucky is mostly non-union,,except for the coal mines, and Ford in Louisville, Corvette in Bowling Green. And the Post Offices.

Wages are lower as a result, but that was an incentive(among many) for Toyota to locate their Camry & minivan plants here, employing around 10,000 non-union. Many Japanese parts suppliers followed, and located in the region.

Also, most of the contractors here are non-union. The end result is that these big companies have free rein to treat their employees however badly they choose to. If you get hurt at Toyota, you get fired. And they get away with it. Because there's somebody else waiting to take that job. There is a history in Kentucky of plants voting to go union, and those plants getting shut down and moved to Mexico or China. I can name 3, but there's more... .

Union or non-union? Both have their benefits, and drawbacks.

I like having my blue collar skills, but it sucks to be at the mercy of a major corporation.

 

[Champane Flight]

Bu!!

That is it on the head,Steve. I have heard the senority thing over and over again. You mean to tell me that a person that has worked for a company for 15 years and does a good job should be shoved aside for a guy who just hired on and does the job faster,cause he's younger?Or would you rather see the guy who kisses the most $#% get the promotion?Thats what happens in most cases.



No one has seen the good the Unions have done?How do you like your paid vacation?How about your health benefits?Do you like your wage scale?Do you think your employer and others just one day decided to give this to its employees?RIGHT!The Unions fought for these things for years,they finally became. Somehow big buisness has gotten its message across.



RR,you should have joined the Union,might have gotten some benefits from your partime job. And after that they might have placed you in a better position in another company. All you did is give the company a out to hire more partime employees and layoff its fulltime. Not to metion not have to pay anybody benefits!Me,me,me,is that all its about nowadays?



We have a local company that has been in buisness for 90 years. Last week the employees came in thinking negotiations were going to start next week. Instead they got there last paycheck. And they were informed if they wanted there old jobs back they would have to reapply and take a six dollar an hour cut,with NO vacation for two years. Not to mention that there was no more pension fund!You see the old company had filed for bankrupcty and had sold it to another. The only thing they have to hold on to is that they were Union. The stipulation is that the new company will have to negotiate with them. However,the new company is refusing and at latest the whole thing will go to NLRB. Which will take two years to settle and then go into litigation. Is this right?Or just an easy out for an employer?

 

[Doc Tinker]

- Anyone know what it's like to have been an officer of a union and get screwed by the employer and the union at the same time?



Doc

 

[NVR FNSH]

An employer does not 'give' anybody benefits. Benefits are part of your total compensation package. It's figured pretty much like your hourly rate. If you don't like it leave & find another job/change careers.



If the employer is so bad then why are there others waiting to fill your spot?



There was an interesting union thread on dirtrider.net and one of the observations was that there are significant differences in how skilled trades unions are treated vs 'assembly line' (for the lack of a better description). How many of the union horror stories are from assy line unions vs trades unions?



Brian

 

[Diesel Freak]

I do not want or need a Union!

Non Union here and loving it. Like NVR FNSH, I too surf the "cube" when everything is operating as it should. I never see my boss, and I know exactly why! I work a great shift... 36/48 hours a week on a compressed shift (3 and 4 day weekends) Over time is paid over 8 hours a day AND over 40 hours a week! I have fun with my job... everything from Electronics, Hydraulics, mechanical troubleshooting, Programming, PLC's, running wire and cable, leak checking, Vacuum systems (<1x10^-3 Torr)... . if I were union, there is no way I could do all this in one job. If I sound like I am bragging... . I AM!

 

[NVR FNSH]

Diesel Freak,

You keep talkin' like that and you'll have more of us Californians moving to your neck of the woods... .



Actually, my parents live in Vancouver, WA & I would love to find a good paying job up that way. The wife wouldn't be too thrilled 'cause she already misses the SoCal beaches.



Brian

 

[Steve M]

Brian, that's a good question. I would have to assume, based on the many places I go with my job, that there's more tension and pettiness in a manufacturing type atmosphere than would be with a job like mine. I'm out on a route servicing elevators and escalators with only occasional contact with my co-workers. We'll meet for lunch or to help each other with a repair but for the most part we're on our own. We see our supervisor on Friday morning for a safety meeting and parts orders. Then we're off to have fun with electronics, hydraulics, mechanical troubleshooting, programming software, solid state drives, remote stations, vacuum flourescent displays, pulling wire and traveling cables, hoist ropes, testing safeties and safety circuits, balanced bridge detectors and infrared detectors, hall effect sensors, dc and ac motors, ring and worm gearsets, closed loop data circuits, generator compounding, dynamic braking circuits, alot of mechanical relay circuits, an occasional light bulb and a few miles on a Dayton hand vac. And the company pays me to drive my truck and haul their equipment around! And after the safety meeting on the corresponding Friday, our boss reminds us of the union meeting that night.

I wonder how many TDR members are blue collar, white collar, professional, or self employed? Next poll possibly...

 

[Charley]

Touchy subject but:



What M Lee and Steve M said.



I haven't carried a card since 1959, Operating Engineers. I'm an Engineer and make good money. Worked for one company for 22 years then decided I wanted to see the world and did. Have worked contract for the last 23 years for anyone who had a job and haven't been out of work in all that time more than three months. I know that the salary and benefits I get are not my own doing but the results of difficult union/company negotiations a hundred years ago. I support the unions and every construction job I go on is regulated by union agreements. When I had to work overtime because of a strike all my overtime money went into the unions strike fund.



Thanks guys.



Charley



Oh, and at almost 67 years old I just signed on another contract with a 9 year schedule. Optimistic old pharte ain't I.

 

[merryman]

Guess we all have our experiences and our views are likely shaped by those experiences---mine was being forced to pay union dues when I was a part timer who could never receive any kind of benefits, retirement etc, but still required to pay the dues. -------while the similiar plant down the road doing the same thing was non union and paid better, and had better benefits. Guess why there were jobs available at the union shop and none available down the road? The nice union guys made it clear that if I didn't toe the line, the negotiating would be done in the dark with odds I would not like. I sure figured out where the term "Union Goons" came from.



Also wonder how many of those jobs that are now in Mexico, China etc, would still be here but for the "negotiating" translated -- strike to shut the place down--by the union

that drove those jobs out of the country?? And how many companies went under because of the union negotiations, thereby ending all the jobs.



yea, I know, unions have done some good, especially years ago, but I sure wonder whether they do more overall harm than good.



Some guy (or group of people) lay it all on the line to start a company and when it gets going here come some guys to tell him/them how to run their business. Guess thats the American way.

Sorry if I offend, just that my union experience puts me firmly in the corner of those entrepreneurs who make the company/business start and run, not thoes who come along later and say" do it our way or we will run you out of business" and call it negotiating.





Vaughn



Vaughn

 

[LarryB]

Two cheers for merryman.

 

[HiPerf360]

Heck no!!!!! I own a construction company. I was just stating my opinion on unions, just like you are. In my industry the unions are more expensive and have a lot lower workmanship.

 

[Diesel Freak]

Originally posted by NVR FNSH

Diesel Freak,

You keep talkin' like that and you'll have more of us Californians moving to your neck of the woods... .

you can stay in Cali... ... . We have a facility in Santa Clara.....

 

[KennyM]

I used to work Beth Steel sparrows point as an Electrician, and Electrical forman. The union served me well when I was there. I was fortunate to have a really good crew under me. For the last seven years I have been in the Semiconductor industry, and also have no complaints. Ken

 

[NVR FNSH]

Originally posted by Diesel Freak







you can stay in Cali... ... . We have a facility in Santa Clara.....

Someone would have to paying >$150k/year in order to live in Santa Clara. Housing is way too expensive down there. My sister just listed there 3/1 (1100 sq ft) house in San Carlos for $599,000 and are expecting it to go for over $600K... ...



They're looking at moving up the Portland/Vancouver area to be closer to our parents/her babysitters.



Sorry Diesel Freak but you're gonna have to add another 5 Californians to the Oregon population count



Brian

 

[joesoot]

Originally posted by merryman

Guess we all have our experiences and our views are likely shaped by those experiences---mine was being forced to pay union dues when I was a part timer who could never receive any kind of benefits, retirement etc, but still required to pay the dues. -------while the similiar plant down the road doing the same thing was non union and paid better, and had better benefits. Guess why there were jobs available at the union shop and none available down the road? The nice union guys made it clear that if I didn't toe the line, the negotiating would be done in the dark with odds I would not like. I sure figured out where the term "Union Goons" came from.

That's pretty bad, someone forcing you to work there?

Originally posted by HiPerf360

In my industry the unions are more expensive and have a lot lower workmanship.

Is that a fact?

From what i've seen firsthand, the 1st is true while the latter couldn't be farther from the truth. I believe a major point in favor of union skilled labor in the constuction field is the fact that so many take pride the job they do. In most cases the job is done right the 1st time. Which is more than I can say for many Rat shops.

Question: Does working harder(goota make those daily quotas, even if half of it is wrong) for less $$$/Benefits/Protection make one noble or just a little slow?



Steve M: Do you work for Otis/United Tech. ?

 

[C Schomer]

I was never in a really good union - two teamster locals and then tinners union back when the Denver general manager and his secretary robbed the piggy bank for $1. 5 million. I got unions beat now but I have an exceptional job. Unions aren't in it for the workers as much as they used to be. But the way the job market is going now(big corp. mentality/lack of security and bennies), I could see a chance for unions to make a comeback if they could dispell the things that gave some of them a bad reputation. Craig

 

[baby.driver]

Come on merryman... and you a JUDGE?

The jobs went to China and Mexico because of government regulations pure and simple.

That includes going off the gold standard.



Jay

 

[DonS]

Originally posted by NVR FNSH





Someone would have to paying >$150k/year in order to live in Santa Clara. Housing is way too expensive down there. My sister just listed there 3/1 (1100 sq ft) house in San Carlos for $599,000 and are expecting it to go for over $600K... ...

Santa Clara and San Carlos are two different animals! Santa Clara == center of Silicon Valley, San Carlos == hills up on the Peninsula. Property values (OK, costs, not values ) in San Carlos are waaay higher than in Santa Clara.



You should be able to get by in Santa Clara on $120K Or, just commute from Sacramento



-Don

 

[NVR FNSH]

DonS,

My sis lives down in the poor folk part of San Carlos - the flat land off Brittan/El Camino. It's the likes of Joe Montana that live up in the hills



I'll stick to Santa Rosa for the time being.



Brian

 

[Steve M]

I see a contradiction. Do union members stick by each other no matter what? Even to the point of having to work extra hard to make up for a slacker? Does a union fight to the finish to defend a non-performer? Or do union members threaten to negotiate with members in the dark with odds against the brother??? Which way is it?

Hmm... Where I work, yes with Otis, if a member is let go, our union BA will investigate the reason and try to defend the member. If the member was let go for a fireable offence, it's adios for that person. We have a very dangerous job and an obligation to the customer as well as the company to perform in a very safe and professional manner to insure the safety of ourselves as well as the customer and riding public. If a member isn't up to par, he puts all of us at risk. Therefore I expect my union brothers to be the best there is. Anything less is too dangerous for ourselves and our customers and a liability to our company. Loyal to the company? Darn right. Otis has put alot of meals on my table and some nice toys in my driveway in return for the professionalism I've shown them in twenty one years. Would I break the contract for Otis. Absolutely not. Has anyone in Otis management asked me to break the contract? Not in the twenty one years I've worked for them. Our company dinners and union dinners harbor no ill feelings. How could it be any better?