Job offer, requires me to provide my own pickup...decisions

[Sticks]

I received a cold call last week from a company that I had applied for a position with almost a year ago. They have two positions available, one being the position that I declined last year, and a management position.

Out of courtesy, I went and interviewed with the Division Director, one of the job Superintendents, and the Corporate Equipment Manager on Saturday. This position is salary (eeewwwww, icky) and would be the logical step up from my current career as a field service technician, to an equipment foreman.

Here's the hitch. I have to provide my own pickup to go to the job sites (part of the job description - the truck will effectively be my office). I would get a "Truck Allowance" and "Tool Allowance" in addition to my salary, along with fuel and oil changes. Any other repairs and wear items come out of my pocket. This is the primary reason I declined the job last year. I was in no way going to put myself $120k in debt for a service truck with a company that I may or may not like working for. This position however would be a little easier on the debt ratio since all I would need is a minimum of a 1/2 ton pickup, and a basic tool set (I would manage, not actually have to turn a wrench daily).

Now my current truck (see signature) would be more than enough, with the exception that it needs probably $3k in repairs, if I do the work, that I have been putting off to be reliable for at least the next year (she's been really neglected the last 7 years as a weekend and winter vehicle only).

I've been eyeballing the 2013 & newer 3/4 ton Dodge/Cummins setups, and the best that I have found locally is $40k (est. after tax), and this is the lowest base model that I can find in a 4 door, 4x4, LSD. Warranty is going to be a priority for something that is going to probably see 30k miles a year. I am wondering if I am over thinking the need to go Diesel. I even eyeballed some gas burners and was stunned to see that even Toyota and Nissan were as much or more as the Dodge. I might look at some of the Fords, GM is absolutely out of the question due to the last 7 years of working on pickups that see job site/off road use. 1/2 ton is the minimum, but I would probably need to occasionally tow 6k#ish and or max out the vehicle load capacity ferrying parts [hydraulic pumps, motors, equipment components], ergo looking into the 3/4 ton.

Now the combined truck and tool allowance would barely cover the payments on a new truck, and my current household finances really can not afford additional debt ratio. Ideally I need to find a 2013 or 2014 that is used/low miles and get new vehicle financing along with used vehicle pricing, let someone else take the $10k hit for driving it off the lot. Ideally I would like to find something around $30k max.

What say the membership. Step away from my Dodge/Cummins loyalty for a work truck, or find a way to make it happen?

 

[mwilson]

I would run what I already owned until the new job proves out. Three grand in repairs pales in comparison to the price of a slightly used CTD.
After a year or so of employment bliss then go find a new wagon. Plus you will have a better idea if a 3/4 ton is really needed.

Will you have to keep a mileage log so that fuel and tool allowance don't become additional taxable income??? Fighting that battle myself right now.

Mike.

 

[Sticks]

Hmmmm.....I'll have to talk to my tax guy about that. Personal vehicle for work get's mileage deductions, but I did not think that the fuel and allowances would be considered income - the company does call it "leasing the truck from me", and may file as such on their taxes.

I might be better off declining the allowances and submitting the entire vehicle payments as a "work tool" on my taxes. Then we get into the whole depreciation value math headache.

 

[jgillott]

Many companies are going this route. It is cheaper for them to offer you an allowance, fuel, and tool reinbursment, than it is to purchase or lease that vehicle themself and cover insurance, etc. for the truck and employee. Speaking of insurance, if you accept this job and end up using your own vehicle and or buying a new one, I highly suggest talking to your insurance agent before you begin work. Depending on your insurance company, state, etc, there may be a difference in the type of policy that is required.

I would not go in to this job relying on a 12 year old truck no matter how good of condition it is in. You would have to check with the company first, but they are not going to want to rely on that vehicle for their work. They want the employee to have something that is new and that presents a good image for their company. My gut is that they are not going to care how good your current truck is, they will be concerned with the age. Most of the guys I know that work with a similar compensation package purchase low end 1/2 tons that they can pay for with the allowance, keep them under warranty, and then dump them and buy new when needed. Keep your truck just in case it is needed when your work truck is down for maintanence, etc.

 

[GTSimms]

I don't normally reply to things, from your location setting seems you might be moving to CA. I've worked forty years as an adult and always been with a company supplied truck, this was a huge compensation that I appreciated and always took them home. As a contractor just the vehicle insurance for a number of vehicles is millions of dollars coverage. Are you going to be required to have a company name on the truck, sounds like you at times will be hauling a company trailer full of maybe large equipment. For instance you leave a job site late and you need to park that in front of your home, not only theft ins. but a lot of counties don't allow that it is a commercial vehicle making an income. That said a wheel comes off the trailer, takes someone out lawyers would have a field day. Sounds like they are hiring you as an outside contractor, to avoid leasing or purchasing trucks and all that goes with it. Putting you on salary and requiring tools, sounds kind of almost shoddy and if they are they will milk you for every penny. Sorry for negative, now if I was young and very much wanted to learn this type of work as my life's work did not own a home or anything of much value I would probably do it. Just be aware a lawyer will own you if forbid something bad happened. Just my quick thoughts I'm retired and things change, so don't listen to me if it doesn't apply.

 

[JR]

My step father is in the same position you are. He travels all over southeastern Wyoming and northern Colorado to the tune of 40-50k miles a year. He has to have a truck and 4 wheel drive is a must given the conditions he drives in the winter. He has been running a Tundra for the last 6 years and cashes them in once they turn 100k. The trucks are pretty dang tough, he spends the week pounding the ashpault and the weekends in the mountains running secondary and forrest service roads and has never had a problem one with any of them. His biggest gripe is fuel mileage, all the 1/2 tons suck in this department. I sent him a few links of the rumors of the Toyota/Cummins partnership and hes really drooling over that option but is within 6 months or so of another new truck and is really eyeing the new EcoDiesel Ram.
It is a big decision to jump into a new truck before knowing how the job will pan out. My concern would be if the job doesnt pan out, am I going to be comfortable with whichever truck I purchase and the payment to go along with it...

 

[Sticks]

Well the job that I am taking is in Colorado, and may do work outside the state, which will be mean coming home once a month for the duration of that job (nobody wants to work a 12 hour day, drive 10 hours to get home, then turnaround a day later and drive back).

This is the way this company has done business in this respect since 1946. Old habits die hard. They are however the only ones in my current industry that does this. All the other companies provide trucks for management (occasionally too many trucks to some that don't need them). There were no requirements to be a particular brand, color, or age limit, just 1/2 ton or better. Company logo won't be on the truck either.

Believe me, I am still trying to wrap my head around how they are doing this. I know for a fact that it is costing them a disturbing amount of money on the equipment side (none of the mechanics have a true service truck w/crane). I speak from experience here having worked two years at one company before I got a real truck. My productivity went through the roof being able to deal with heavier items by myself rather than having to either find a piece of equipment to do the lifting I needed, and more often that not, and operator for that piece of equipment while I guided the part hanging off the bucket. I also get the point about company image having a bunch of random pickups driving around the jobsite with beacons but no logo. These decisions are outside my pay grade if I do accept the job anyhow.

Yes, insurance will be out of my pocket as well. The more miles you put on a year, the greater the risk of being in an accident. Simple math on that one.

I just as soon not put that type of mileage on my current truck. I have put too much work into her, but I may have to until I get the down payment on a new one, and find the right deal (FWIW I did find one for $35k w/ 28500 miles - carfax looks good up to the point it was an auction buy, but corporation owned prior, so maybe it's OK).

Even the 1/2 tons that I looked at, there is surprisingly little difference in price. $8k for the Cummins upfit is about it, and I am not entirely sure that the package differences don't negate that. Can't touch a gas burner Ford 250 for under $40k.

 

[GTSimms]

You seem to be giving this a lot of thought, good for you and good luck with new job if you take it.

 

[Sticks]

Oh yeah I am thinking hard about it. Different job class is a big step and should not be taken lightly. I'm going from craft to management.

My biggest problem is that I don't job hop. I have only been with my current employer since May.

My work ethic. As a rule, I give a company at least 5 years to get their return on their investment in me in training, etc. Granted I have been kind of coasting where I am at, and not truly being utilized for my experience, but it's still an issue for me to change so soon.

 

[jgillott]

Even the 1/2 tons that I looked at, there is surprisingly little difference in price. $8k for the Cummins upfit is about it, and I am not entirely sure that the package differences don't negate that. Can't touch a gas burner Ford 250 for under $40k.

Just for reference, my 2010 1/2 Dodge Crew Cab 4x4 stickered for $36.5K and some change. I think I paid just over $28,000 out the door.

 

[Ncostello]

This is common today. If you don't do it someone else will. Many big companies don't even determine what you need to drive or how much you get in a stipend on your paycheck. They hire an outside firm to manage fleets and issues such as yours. For instance you could work for a coal mine and be some sort of manager. But you're required to drive on the worlds worst haul roads full of large rocks and mud. The outside firm tells the company that as a manager you need a Ford Taurus. But you know you need a 1/2 ton 4x4. Too bad....you get paid the car amount. And you're responsible for the damage to your car. So you buy a truck and have to pay the extra each month to cover the truck upcharge. Thats how it's done now.

Anyhow...were it me I'd buy a 1-2 year old gas 1/2 ton 4x4. And take care of it best you can. Maintain it for the 300K mile mark. Keep in mind whatever you drive you'll be destroying. It's a true business expense from this point forward. Keep the cost of doing business as low as you can to get the job done. You don't wanna be in the business of truck repair. You're business is whatever your job description is. The truck is a tool. Just like the impact gun you used to have to carry.

And buy a Dodge. The late model reliability of GM and Ford is out the door now. I have a 2013 F150 for my work and I'm sure glad I don't own it. They are now fully gone as far as a good truck. In 100 different respects. The Dodge gas trucks will outlast the current GM and Ford platforms. And the ergonomics of the new Dodges are far superior to the rest. In my opinion.

Our fleet has had 5 late model GM's lose engines at 150K for no reason. The Fords have all been in and out of service for transmission and other issues. The one Dodge we had went 200K with out so much as a hiccup. And it's still on the road. 4.7L 4x4.

Just my opinion...after driving all of the recent 1/2 ton offerings.

 

[Sticks]

Well, this may have been all academic. I received an email yesterday that I had hoped was an official offer, but instead was a "We have another candidate to interview, we collectively have concerns about you being a team player..."

They miss interpreted, rather I did not clarify myself about one of my questions regarding required hours worked per week as a salaried employee. Point of fact I have a long career of staying late to help others waaaaay outside my job description to either make sure that we are good to go the next day for operations, or so that one or two people don't have to work till midnight, when with my help, we can be done by 10 if not sooner. I've even gotten in trouble for it more than a few times.

Oops. Damage done.

I'll let you know when It's official.

 

[mwilson]

"we collectively have concerns about you being a team player..."

Rut-Ro. Are you going to get another shot at it in hopes of explaining???

The word "collectively" really adds some drama. I may use that in the future..........

I hope that this works out for you.

Mike.

 

[jgillott]

Well, this may have been all academic. I received an email yesterday that I had hoped was an official offer, but instead was a "We have another candidate to interview, we collectively have concerns about you being a team player..."

Did that come from their HR department or an individual manager? I can't believe that anyone would put that in writing to a potential employee. I've been involved in the hiring process for new employees quite a few times and rule #1 for us is to keep everything positive and never release to the candidate what your concerns are. It's way too easy to open the company up for descrimination or unfair labor practice claims with comments like that.

 

[GHarman]

I believe that the term "Collectively", in this context, means they "team hire". Not just one individual makes the decision. It is a group of people with similar responsibilities that report to HR.
HR just acts as head hunters and administrators of the process.
IMHO!? Sticks, I would use what you have and run it into the ground! You are a Top Knotch Mechanic. You can build what you want when you are given the opportunity. The truck can be replaced with another when you have built yourself up to that financial level. The iron work is sacrificial.
Furthermore, You may not like this employer or their ways of doing business. If they give you an opportunity to explain your work ethic to them and they hire you?
You will be examining their business ethic, just as much as they will examine your job performance.
One more little item. Liability insurance! That should be part of your insurance bundle. A minimum $!,000,000 rider.
Course, if your insurance carrier finds you using your vehicle as part of "your business" (definitions can hurt you), they may change the rates.
While my Stepdaughter was under 25 and still on our family insurance plan, I carried that additional liability rider for $25 a month. For business purposes, it will be far higher!
Do a cost analysis of your expenses and be prepared to present your expectations if you are given another opportunity.
This is JMHO! I Hope it works out for You and Your Family! I understand the job loyalty! They would be blind not to see what you are offering!
GregH

 

[JJPage]

"We have another candidate to interview, we collectively have concerns about you being a team player..."

Unless you are desperate for employment (and I totally understand if you are, because we all have been in a position where we as responsible individuals accept less than desirable duties to provide for our Families), I would not give this employer another thought.

 

[mwilson]

Did that come from their HR department or an individual manager? I can't believe that anyone would put that in writing to a potential employee. I've been involved in the hiring process for new employees quite a few times and rule #1 for us is to keep everything positive and never release to the candidate what your concerns are. It's way too easy to open the company up for descrimination or unfair labor practice claims with comments like that.

As a coincidence I just got out of a meeting about this very subject. Plus sexual harrassment policies thrown in for a bonus.

Told the Service Manger that I was tired of him treating me like a piece of meat......

Mike.

 

[DonFitzwater]

"We have another candidate to interview, we collectively have concerns about you being a team player..."

Sounds like the douche nozzles at Halliburton that I used to work for....................Good luck if you take the job, probably be better to stick it out where you are at currently.

 

[jgillott]

As a coincidence I just got out of a meeting about this very subject. Plus sexual harrassment policies thrown in for a bonus.

Told the Service Manger that I was tired of him treating me like a piece of meat......

Mike.

Sorry to hear that. Those meetings are never fun.

 

[Sticks]

This job I can't walk away from. I changed jobs last year (May) and ultimately took a $35k reduction in pay in doing so. I knew it was going to be a cut (500 hours of overtime a year), but the extent was a lot more than I was led to believe (hard to calculate pay when job sites are Davis Bacon). I expected to be in the field at the job sites, instead they have been keeping me in the shop 90% of the time, and they seem to have found a way around paying the Davis Bacon pay for the mechanics, or anybody else that is normally considered "office personnel" . Some goofy things going on, and as always the mechanics are the red headed step children.

Anyhow, through some strange turn of events, I got the job offer. The other candidate must have blown it worse than I did, or was not qualified. No solid dollar yet, but I was given a "Max" dollar figure for the position while I was in limbo, and that Max coincides with what I had hand calculated on a 60 hour week (including OT) based on an average of the local Davis Bacon pay scales for a mechanic. So the Max is what I am going to hold out for. I guess I'll find out next week what the official offer is.

Time to start looking harder for a truck, getting insurance quotes, maybe look into starting an LLC and putting the truck under that. I really don't want to put that kind of mileage on my personal pickup.