Juice HOT

[OT-OF-HERE!!]

Anyone running one yet? Results?

 

[JVolpe]

I will answer here too. I spoke with Arron at Edge about an hour ago. I ask about the HOT Juice availability. Was told they are finishing up beta and should be done in a couple of days. I will check back Friday and/or Monday and see what the answer is then and let you know.

 

[smokejunkie]

Its awesome, 160 ponies. My trucks going in for a southbend fe on thursday because of it :-laf

 

[ChrisKringle]

I'll stick with my 200 hp from bullydog. No install, just plug it in for a few moments.

 

[Matt400]

I gotta have a knob... dial it up on demand only when needed.

What is the 160 juice, timing, duration, pressure??

 

[ChrisKringle]

The knob thing is nice.



You can install the outlook monitor from bullydog which allows you to dial your engine up or down with any boxes or programs on there. I hear the outlook is pretty cool 'cause you can monitor rail pressure, boost, defuel, egt, and a few other novelty modes like 1/4 mile times.

 

[CLAYTON]

Hey smokejunkie tell us more about the "HOT" version. Where do you live in Utah? Any quirks with it?

 

[Matt400]

I'll stick with my 200 hp from bullydog.

I looked at www.bullydog.com and couldn't find any 200 hp product??



I was looking at their Outlook Monitor



I was at first interested then thought to myself its an expensive knob, only for me because I already have gauges.

It has its purpose though for non adjustable boxes & down loaders especially for those with no gauges yet. I learned it will read the "fooled" rail pressure so that doesn't seem like much of a good thing.



I use to like the idea of defuel on high EGT's but that might promote a user to stay in it relying on the devise. A better approach IMO is to make the changes needed for lower EGT's and watch the gauge when your foot is planted. One thing nice about my SPA gauge is the led warning to get my attention to the gauge.



If I didn't already have spendy gauges I would give it a second look for sure.

It would probably mount real nice on an SRT-10 A-Pillar vs the linkage mount they show.

 

[DLeno]

I looked at www.bullydog.com and couldn't find any 200 hp product??



I was looking at their Outlook Monitor



I was at first interested then thought to myself its an expensive knob, only for me because I already have gauges.

It has its purpose though for non adjustable boxes & down loaders especially for those with no gauges yet. I learned it will read the "fooled" rail pressure so that doesn't seem like much of a good thing.

I think it reads "commanded" pressure which is the pressure command that the ECM fires off to the CP3. I could be wrong about this but I think this is why guys are routinely getting pressure measurements well above the pressure sender range (I'm hearing that the outlook monitor has reported 28,000+ readings. The sender maxes out at approximately 26,100). In any case, commanded pressure is not reliable either I dont' think, because there is no guarentee that the rail will achieive commanded pressure. It really isn't a measurement -- its just reporting data it finds out on the CAN bus. "fooled" pressure is always equal to or less than stock maximum rail pressure (below 23,500) because thats how pressure fooling works -- by telling the ECM that rail pressure is too low so that it (the ECM) will attempt raising it. This isn't worth much either; the biggest chuckle I got was from a story of a DC tech who rode around with an owner who had a pressure box installed. the Tech hooked up the DRB scanner and read rail pressure as reported by the ECM (which of course was fooled). Of course, the pressure measurements were lower at the highest power levels! the funny part was that the tech used the measurements to show that the box did not raise rail pressure above stock maximums!

I use to like the idea of defuel on high EGT's but that might promote a user to stay in it relying on the devise. A better approach IMO is to make the changes needed for lower EGT's and watch the gauge when your foot is planted. One thing nice about my SPA gauge is the led warning to get my attention to the gauge.

amen to that.

 

[OT-OF-HERE!!]

Its awesome, 160 ponies. My trucks going in for a southbend fe on thursday because of it :-laf

Are you saying you have one?? Or, how would you know?

 

[ChrisKringle]

The 200hp 'crazy larry' program for the bullydog downloader is available, just not on the website. I just got my downloader back from bullydog. They updated to the 200hp. Gonna load in a minute... .

 

[Matt400]

I see you are running a TST, pressure box and the downloader... and no turbo yet?? whew!

 

[smokejunkie]

I've had the hot version for about 3 weeks. NO problems what so ever. Its basically a juice with level 5 being the 160 then level 4 is what level 5 was and so on down to level 1 being what level 2 was. Also after talking to one of the engineers if you haven't had the tsb for mileage you'll get an extra 20 horses. They dynoed the truck with the tsb and without and were 20 horses more without the tsb and nothing else was changed. Thought that was kind of interesting especially after hearing peoples stories of a little loss of power after the flash.

 

[Matt400]

I think it reads "commanded" pressure which is the pressure command that the ECM fires off to the CP3.

Are you sure? In studying the operation I see there is no way for a specific "commanded" pressure from the ECM. It looks to me like the ECM simply opens and closes the FCA based on input from other sensors like the rail transducer, TPS, MAP etc.

So all its doing is commanding more "on time" of the FCA allowing more fuel to flow. You could say thats is commanding more pressure but in reality its simply more on time.



The only reason I bring this up is that would mean the ECM is striving to bring "fooled" inputs it is receiving up to where they should be by just increasing FCA on time so there would be no way for the Outlook to see a commanded pressure. If there are folks seeing elevated pressures on their Outlook it must be a virtual figure that has been back calculated.

The sender maxes out at approximately 26,100).

Do you have confirmation on that? I have been researching transducer manufactures and the one thing they have in common is that they will list a measurement range and a working range. The working range is double the measurement range as long as you double the supplied voltage.

If this same engineering is applied to the HPCR transducer it would make the "max out" limit at its supplied 5v or just under 30,000 psi. yet read on up to 52,200 if 10v were used. I have yet to find who manufactures the transducer on the 3rd gens but suspect it is Bosch unless they contract that out.

the biggest chuckle I got was from a story of a DC tech who rode around with an owner who had a pressure box installed. the Tech hooked up the DRB scanner and read rail pressure as reported by the ECM (which of course was fooled).

That is a good one, guess it fooled more than the ECM :-laf

 

[Donn]

Yes so they say, but I have had two Outlook Monitors and they do not defuel. But the other features are great

 

[ChrisKringle]

I see you are running a TST, pressure box and the downloader... and no turbo yet?? whew!

:--) And no gauges!







transmission is getting done in two weeks. BD's X-Monitor (The ONLY way to go!) on the way. My '03 555 had an X so I know when it gets hot and what NOT to do. The only heat mine sees is at stop lights, and a few Fords I've raced. I really baby it though 'cause I know the 600's run a couple hundred degrees hotter.



I'm saving up for twins.

 

[KYLE4]

I looked at www.bullydog.com and couldn't find any 200 hp product??



I was looking at their Outlook Monitor



I was at first interested then thought to myself its an expensive knob, only for me because I already have gauges.

It has its purpose though for non adjustable boxes & down loaders especially for those with no gauges yet. I learned it will read the "fooled" rail pressure so that doesn't seem like much of a good thing.



I use to like the idea of defuel on high EGT's but that might promote a user to stay in it relying on the devise. A better approach IMO is to make the changes needed for lower EGT's and watch the gauge when your foot is planted. One thing nice about my SPA gauge is the led warning to get my attention to the gauge.



If I didn't already have spendy gauges I would give it a second look for sure.

It would probably mount real nice on an SRT-10 A-Pillar vs the linkage mount they show.

The Crazy larry power pup is available with or without the outlook monitor I just got some in the other day

 

[DLeno]

Are you sure? In studying the operation I see there is no way for a specific "commanded" pressure from the ECM. It looks to me like the ECM simply opens and closes the FCA based on input from other sensors like the rail transducer, TPS, MAP etc.

So all its doing is commanding more "on time" of the FCA allowing more fuel to flow. You could say thats is commanding more pressure but in reality its simply more on time.

no, I'm not sure. was hoping for more discussion on that point. sure the CP3 is pulse width modulated for pressure control; I just thought there was a commanded pressure in there some where that drove the PWM circuitry to acheive targeted pressure. the information I have suggests that the ECM and CAN are involved, but it is not clear to me what actually drives the PWM circuity. You could be right that CAN is blind to actual pressure. In any case, the numbers I have seen reported dont' make any sense to me, primarily because of the sensor limitation. But the virtual pressure calculation must be based on something -- just what I dont' know what.



I seriously doubt that the on board sensor is capable of that much span. the Bosch information I have specifies it is a . 5 to 4. 5v sender, linearized from a resistive bridge. There is no calibration data above 4. 5v, and my measurements show a clear limit near that point. It just won't read over approximately 4. 5v, as reported in TDR issue 47 and 48. I guess my point is that I dont' think this transducer fits the standard. I'm thinking the limit is probably an electrical one, unlike some senders that are capable of supply-rail spans.



my present conclusion (lacking data to the contrary) is that no body can accurately predict rail pressures above the measurement limit of the on board sender, and that these measurements, when noise filtered, are limited to 4. 5v or approximately 26,100 psi. anything above that and we are guessing or just measureing noise.

 

[Matt400]

The Crazy larry power pup is available with or without the outlook monitor I just got some in the other day

What does it change? timing, duration - pressure??