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ACoyle

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How many of you have security cameras about your home?

Of those that do, are any of them inside your living space?

Of those that are still here, ae the cameras accessable from the INternet?

Know where I am going? - Do you have any concerns about being watched in your own home?



New question



If you have cameras, have they caught anything or been helpful in any other way.



New question



Would anyone have any recommendations as tocameras to use, DVR to use or anything else pertinent?



Thank You



AC
 
How many of you have security cameras about your home?

Of those that do, are any of them inside your living space?

Of those that are still here, ae the cameras accessable from the INternet?

Know where I am going? - Do you have any concerns about being watched in your own home?



New question



If you have cameras, have they caught anything or been helpful in any other way.



New question



Would anyone have any recommendations as tocameras to use, DVR to use or anything else pertinent?



Thank You



AC



I recently bought a Linksys DCS-900 netcam for $90. It works well enough when there is adequate light. It does poorly in low light conditions. I'm researching video systems to build one for my church; they've had a theft or two. Me being the techno-geek that I am, I figure I can build a decent system for them. So I've been researching.



First, Linux Motion is a neat video surveillance program. It constantly monitors all configured cameras for motion. When it detects motion, it starts recording; when it no longer detects motion, it stops recording. It is very configurable and has some neat algorithms for 'tuning' how it detects motion. Most of all, it is free (open source). It can record video, individual frames, or both; but storing individual JPEGs starts taking up a lot of disk space. Firewalls can be opened to allow internet access to Motion's 'live feed' interface. However, my thought is that if the motion can be recorded, there's no need to have a human watching the camera. (There are, of course, situations where immediate response to a scene is required, but most video surveillance can be recorded for later review. )



I've had Linux Motion on a 1GHz computer at church for three weeks now, recording the one netcam I installed there. At 640x480 resolution and 7-10 frames/sec, it records around 125MB per day, on average, of motion in the office hallway. It was recording about 200MB per *hour* at night until I figured out how to tune it to not see the camera's zero lux 'snow' as motion!



So far, inexpensive netcams (cameras that connect directly to the network), are not all that great; while the video they take is about adequate for identification purposes, they aren't necessarily reliable - the firmware often leaves enough to be desired. The DCS-900 , though, has been working OK for three weeks now; I've got about 2. 6GB of video stored now. I haven't looked at netcams that cost more than $150-$200, so I cannot offer an opinion about them. Inexpensive netcams are on par with the typical USB webcam. They are marginally adequate for security purposes. At 640x480 resolution and around 10 frames per second, a netcam uses around 1-2 megabits/sec of your network bandwidth. If I use netcams at church, I will have to install a separate IP network and pull new cables for it; they need their data network for office/computer work. Netcams have the advantage that they can be placed farther away from the computer; USB cables can only be so long.



Another reason for going with cheaper cameras is that for a store-n-forget system, movable cameras are not needed. Just determine what space needs to be surveilled and strategically place a camera to cover that area.



The next products I'm going to look at are cabled cameras, in the $50-$100 cost range. They connect to a video capture card on the computer via coax cable. The night vision version of the camera has a array of IR LEDs around the lens to provide near-infrared illumination when it's dark. The LEDs generally provide about 20' of illumination; this is adequate for most intents and purposes. If more illumination is needed, one can purchase or build arrays of LEDs that will provide longer distances or can be used to fill in distant areas. For example, if I put a wide-angle camera in the sanctuary, I could install IR lights at the doors to catch comings and goings there, rather than trying to illuminate the entire sanctuary. If I use these cameras, I'll have to pull coax cable to each camera. (And most likely it'll be coax cable with DC power cable for the camera. ) Wireless is out; it'd be too easy to 'jam' the RF, and it'd be too easy to 'tap into' the RF.



The video capture cards cost around $100 for a 4-port version up to $300 or more for a 16-port version. Some have audio, others don't. Audio isn't a concern at the church, so it won't be recorded. Hmmm. Perhaps I can name my system Anteyoelson. :) (Google it!)



As to processing power, 10 fps of 640x480 video takes about 75% of the 1GHz CPU's cycles to process the motion. If I use four cameras, I will likely need a dual core 2GHz CPU at the least. I think 1GB of RAM will be adequate for all four cameras.



Ethics-wise, there's a balance to be found between 'keeping watch for trouble' and 'invading privacy', be it at home, at work, or in a school. Aiming a camera at the loo is the same as posting a guard at the door who notes names and times of entry and egress. But having that same camera 30' away watching all the doors in the hallway is much less intrusive. Using the video to browbeat and cow employees or family members is wrong. But using it as a research tool to fine-tune and develop policies and procedures should be acceptable. Objections are rarely that actions are being recorded. Rather, people object to how those recordings are later used. If no human ever reviews the recorded video, then there can be no objections. If the video is used solely to document illegal activity, there can be no objections; however, periodic requests to review the video policy is reasonable. If it is used to instill fear into family members, employees or pupils, then the subjects would be fully justified in dismantling the system.



Think of video records as being akin to medical records. If you have a problem, the doc needs to know your history so she can prescribe the best treatment she can. The nurse needs to know so you and the doc are properly prepared and needs to know enough so that perhaps he can prevent the doc from making an unintended tragic mistake. It might even be reasonable for the doc to review all records on hand should she realize there's a common pattern of dis-ease among her patients (she has a duty to you, but she also has a duty to society). But otherwise your medical records are to be left in the drawer unread and untouched. It's pert near the same with video surveillance.



Ah, stifled yawns and glazed-over eyes tell me it's time to finish. :)
 
No stifled yawns of glazed over eyes here. Thank you for a lot of good information. It will take me a bit to digest it.



I have been robbed twice, $2,400. 00 of tools the first and another $600. 00 the second time. I have learned that the police (Local) offer no protection. After the last robbery, after the officer told me that he has been on the force over 20 years, he told me that I should do something about theft. I was take aback, as I thought that is what they were for. When CSI came to take prints, they said that they found nothing and offered me the hammer that they broke my window with for my toolbox. I replaced all the garage windows with Lexan.



I started out by putting security lights that sense motion out. I have been called in to help a security guy with problems interfacng the camera system to the Internet and myst admit that I am fascinated.



I am thinking about something like 7 cameras. five outdoors and two indoors. I am thinking of a dedicated DVR for collection. he outside onew would be IR. I have found ones that give you 100'.



If anything should happen again, I know that my only help in identification and proof will be self help. Hopefully, the police can find someone with full motion clear video.



I would like to be able to see the cameras while away and have done the INternet interface before. there is just me and my wife home and I am not concerned about what goes on in the house when we are home. I am in the computer business, and I know that if I can see the cameras while I am away, others can find the way in. I have "played" with some of the high end DVR's and I know that you are only an IP address and a password away from access. Most systems will allow ports to be changed few installer deviate from factory defaults.



I will keep researching, since I am interested. Thank you again for the info. I learned a lot and I have some new avenues to explore.



AC
 
USB cables can only be so long.

if it doesn't need to be usb 2. 0, you can make a 100' cable easially if you get a set of usb to rj45 adapters

i have a cheap trendnet ip camera. it works, but it isn't great.

when i move into the new home, i will setup a computer based video surveillance setup with 4 cameras [one in front yard/porch, one in backyard facing garage, one on garage facing house, one inside garage] still need to decide on the OS the system will run on
 
Nope. The police do not exist to protect you. Unless they just happen to be there when the crime is done. The onus for protecting your property is upon you.

Bluecherry - For all your digital security needs - a source of reasonably-priced (to me) cameras and equipment.

WebHome < Motion < TWiki - home page of Motion and its current developer/maintainer.

Stay away from Gadspot cameras. They are known to have supply and quality problems. For that matter, before you buy any IP cameras, search Google for problem reports and other reviews of them.

For what you want, you could probably get away with 5 frame/sec video. You might even be able to get away with 320x240 video. This is getting down to where a single dual-core 2GHz CPU could handle the whole task.

How's this for a start: $600 for a computer with 1GB RAM and 120GB disk. $100 for two 4-port video capture cards. $300 for five Astak CM-818W IR cameras. $480 for two Topica TP-550WIR-HP (100'+ range) IR cameras. Linux OS is free. Linux Motion software is free. My help to configure Motion is free. $100 for a UPS for the computer. And add a few 'tiny' UPSs to keep the cameras running during a power failure (or if the cameras all run on 12VDC, a charger and an Optima deep-cycle battery or two in parallel). Be sure the computer has an option to *always* power up when A/C power is applied (when you plug it in, switch on the power strip, or A/C power is restored after a blackout); this will ensure the system can run unattended. I think you can build the entire system for $1500 or so. And you will have access to configure it the way *you* want it to run, not the way some faceless manufacturer says you want it to run.

You can download the Debian net installer, or use the Ubuntu live CD. I know Debian has Motion as an available package. I would expect Ubuntu to have it available also.

Dropping the resolution to 320x240 and dropping the frame rate to 5 FPS *should* reduce your disk space per camera to about a worst case of around 50MB per day per camera. 100GB should give you at least 6 mo. of video storage. The reduction should also reduce your CPU requirements from perhaps 750 MHz per camera (a worst-case total of around 5350MHz) to less than 2GHz for all seven. Thus a 2GHz, dual-core CPU should be adequate to record motion from all seven cameras at once and still leave plenty of cycles to run the OS (Linux). Disk space usage is entirely dependent on the amount of motion a camera detects in a given day. You could have some cameras running 500MB/day, and you could have some running 10MB/day. It all depends on traffic.

The videos (or detected motion) would be stored in individual AVIs on disk. It is rather trivial to put them in a directory under Apache's normal web site. Then by configuring your firewall/router to forward certain inbound connections to your video server, you can access all the video remotely. And it is trivial to password-protect the video directory on the server if you want to control access to the movies.

Some technical details I haven't yet worked out: the process of detecting when the disk is approaching 'full' (or a high-water mark) so a script can be started to delete enough of the oldest videos to open sufficient space for new videos (or to drop the disk usage down to a low-water mark). Designing a web interface that will provide a nice user interface, rather than providing a simple list of videos. For any particular day, it might be nice to see a summary of how many 'motions' have been detected in each hour on each camera. And have the summaries be links to the list of those hours' videos. It would be nice to have a thumbnail from, say, 30 frames into the video so you can see at a glance if it is pertinent to your search.

Basically, what you want is what I'm in the process of designing/building for my church. And for the accountant I do software work for in IL. And you'll get my best TDR dieselhead's discount, just as the church will get my best minister's discount. But the accountant will pay near retail. Helping fellow dieselheads and the church is, well, what we all do. But business is business. :) :)

The church's prototype system has been running 21 days now. There was a power failure about 7 days ago, and the system came back up recording by itself. It's used about 3. 2GB in that time for the one camera. It's an old Gateway with a 10GB disk, so storage is limited. I'll soon have to implement the high-low water code. It is only recording actual motion; it's doing well ignoring the low-/zero- light 'noise snow' from the cheap IP camera.

I've just ordered a PCI card and a camera to play with. This technical stuff is fun! :D

I'll find a few innocuous videos from the church office and put them on my website so you can see what the Linksys DCS-900 camera can do.

N
 
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Where I used to work they installed a Sam's system after they got tired of lawnmowers being stollen. Just a DVR, 4 or 5 cameras, and motion sensing lights above the cameras. I am no techi, but IMHO it was a waste of money but they like to self engineer things.



What you guys are doing here is wild, I wish I had a place that was worth doing that sort of neat thing to, no control over that when you are renting tho.
 
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