I recently came across a thread stating that with the use of a K&N air filter there is a noticable residue when looking into the turbo inlet. Is this from the oil on the filter? If so, what about not using any oil? What effect does the "residue" have on the engine? Should I take mine out? Thanks!
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Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) K&N Air Filter....Bad?
- Thread starter trqmnstr
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Vaughn MacKenzie
TDR MEMBER
The best thing you can do for your Cummins is to take it off. I had a K&N cone filter once and it let a lot of dust through. It doesn't rate very well on this air filter test: http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm
From this thread: https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118651
From this thread: https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118651
Last edited by a moderator:
Alan Reagan
TDR MEMBER
Vaughn is right. Take it out. The amount of air moving through the filter sucks the oil into the into system and any dirt that might be clinging to it.
SnoKing
TDR MEMBER
BHAF it! This is the smaller NAPA 6637 Big Honking Air Filter with Outerwears prefilter. Put rubber nut things from the bottom of the air box on the studs and a piece of marine floor mat for the filter to rest on. Floor mat comes in 1 foot squares. You can see the cover of it in the left picture under the filter to the left of the tie wrap. Have Larry-B heat shield on HY turbo. SNOKING
Last edited:
Mark Craig
TDR Advertiser
trqmnstr,
Yep your right heres some test info from independent sources:
Here's what Dan Montegari of Precision Diesel Services says about advanced FLOW engineering's Pro-GUARD 7 filter media:
HIGH FLOW AIR INTAKE SYSTEMS
WHO IS THE BEST & WHY!
We received many letters asking which high flow air intake system to use. We decided to test a number of manufacturers’ systems to determine which system was superior. We tested each system and found systems manufactured by AFE (Advanced Flow Engineering) were the best by far.
Diesel engines use seven times more air than gasoline engines of equivalent size so clean cool air is a must for extended engine life, better fuel economy and additional power. A higher flow of intake air coupled with a high flow exhaust system allows for more power, a better fuel economy, extended engine life and reduced exhaust temperatures. On the other hand ingested dirt through the air intake system becomes Silicon in the engine oil, which is a harsh cutting agent and can damage your engine quickly.
We tested three very popular systems. I will not mention the names of the other systems as a courtesy but I will explain what problems we found with them. We evaluated the systems by a number of criteria, filtration protection, flow, and design, easy of installation and cost. Almost in the beginning of the tests we realized in most instances a new intake system was necessary to achieve our goals. We needed a kit that used mostly outside air and not hot engine compartment air. We decided to use systems designed to use mostly outside air.
Two manufacturers claimed their systems delivered cleaner air at a higher flow but this was far from the truth. We did not believe any of the manufacturers’ claims and tested each system by operating the vehicle 3,000 miles and performing an engine oil analysis to determine Silicon levels in the engine oil. The vehicle we used has an engine oil analysis performed at every oil change so we had a Silicon number of three (3) to base our tests on.
The first manufacturer’s system was fairly easy to install but we had problems with the oil used to coat the filter also coated the Mass Air Flow Sensor causing a service engine lamp to come on. I called the manufacturer but they had no explanation as to why this should happen but they had this complaint before. Through the three thousand mile test I had to clean the sensor three times to stop the service engine lamp from coming on. When the oil analysis results came back, it was discouraging with Silicon levels at eleven (11). I almost could not believe the result so we changed the oil and filter and repeated the test. The results were almost the same eliminating this manufacturer quickly. I contacted the manufacturer to discuss the results and they were not helpful and basically said, “what you see is what you get”!
We installed the second manufacturer’s system again changing the engine oil and operating the vehicle for three thousand miles. The first problem we encountered was the service engine lamp coming on and I thought the oil they used was coating the sensor again. I removed the sensor and found some oil on it which I cleaned off and reinstalled the sensor. Within ten miles the lamp was on again. I removed the sensor but there was no coating of oil on it. I then placed our scan tool on the engine and quickly discovered the airflow rate was too high for the sensor. I then realized the manufacturer had moved the position of the sensor into a higher airflow and velocity position trying to squeak a little more power from their system. I continued the test having to deal with the service engine lamp throughout the test period. The engine oil analysis gave a Silicon reading of eight (8 and along with the engine lamp problem did not give the manufacturer high mark but I felt if I discussed the problems with them maybe we could overcome them. I placed four calls to the manufacturer and I am still waiting for a call back! This surely eliminated this manufacturer.
The third manufacturer we tested was AFE (Advanced Flow Engineering). We used their Magnum Force air intake system. We operated the vehicle for 3000 miles and when the oil analysis came back it was promising with a Silicon reading of five (5). While five was the best Silicon result we had, it was not good enough. I called AFE and was pleasantly surprised when I discovered they were truly concerned. I spoke with a Mr. Paul Hardley who suggested I try their Pro-Guard 7 media they were about to release. He explained the new Pro-Guard 7 media was five layers of progressively finer mesh medical grade cotton gauze with micro fibers that attract smaller and smaller particles as air passes through. Combined with the five layers of medical [gauze] media, there are two layers of non-woven synthetic polyester fabric with random porosity. The filter media is sandwiched between two layers of aluminum wire mesh. He agreed to send two Pro-Guard 7 filters for a new test. I installed the Pro-Guard 7 filter, changed the engine oil and operated the vehicle for three thousand miles. The engine oil analysis was excellent with a Silicon reading of below three (3). Finally we found an air intake system that gave us a higher flow rate and better filtration. The AFE Magnum Force air intake system is a well designed system, easily installed and uses about 90% outside air. The filter is cleanable and the oil used to coat the filter is patented because it is formulated not to affect the airflow sensor.
Another positive factor of the high flow system was the fuel economy increased about ½ MPG in mixed driving and 1 MPG during highway tests. The filter media used by AFE will not collapse if it gets wet or subject to high boost pressures. They also offer pre-filters for most of their applications for very dusty or dirty operating conditions. We carry a full line of AFE products with Pro-GUARD 7 media. If you order an AFE system from another source, make sure it has a Pro-GUARD 7 media.
A very important factor in this test was the manufacturer was willing to discuss problems with their products and help to overcome them. My hat is off to Paul Hardley and all the people at AFE!
Dan Montegari
President
Precision Diesel Services
Call us if you need any help.
Mark @ DPPI
Yep your right heres some test info from independent sources:
Here's what Dan Montegari of Precision Diesel Services says about advanced FLOW engineering's Pro-GUARD 7 filter media:
HIGH FLOW AIR INTAKE SYSTEMS
WHO IS THE BEST & WHY!
We received many letters asking which high flow air intake system to use. We decided to test a number of manufacturers’ systems to determine which system was superior. We tested each system and found systems manufactured by AFE (Advanced Flow Engineering) were the best by far.
Diesel engines use seven times more air than gasoline engines of equivalent size so clean cool air is a must for extended engine life, better fuel economy and additional power. A higher flow of intake air coupled with a high flow exhaust system allows for more power, a better fuel economy, extended engine life and reduced exhaust temperatures. On the other hand ingested dirt through the air intake system becomes Silicon in the engine oil, which is a harsh cutting agent and can damage your engine quickly.
We tested three very popular systems. I will not mention the names of the other systems as a courtesy but I will explain what problems we found with them. We evaluated the systems by a number of criteria, filtration protection, flow, and design, easy of installation and cost. Almost in the beginning of the tests we realized in most instances a new intake system was necessary to achieve our goals. We needed a kit that used mostly outside air and not hot engine compartment air. We decided to use systems designed to use mostly outside air.
Two manufacturers claimed their systems delivered cleaner air at a higher flow but this was far from the truth. We did not believe any of the manufacturers’ claims and tested each system by operating the vehicle 3,000 miles and performing an engine oil analysis to determine Silicon levels in the engine oil. The vehicle we used has an engine oil analysis performed at every oil change so we had a Silicon number of three (3) to base our tests on.
The first manufacturer’s system was fairly easy to install but we had problems with the oil used to coat the filter also coated the Mass Air Flow Sensor causing a service engine lamp to come on. I called the manufacturer but they had no explanation as to why this should happen but they had this complaint before. Through the three thousand mile test I had to clean the sensor three times to stop the service engine lamp from coming on. When the oil analysis results came back, it was discouraging with Silicon levels at eleven (11). I almost could not believe the result so we changed the oil and filter and repeated the test. The results were almost the same eliminating this manufacturer quickly. I contacted the manufacturer to discuss the results and they were not helpful and basically said, “what you see is what you get”!
We installed the second manufacturer’s system again changing the engine oil and operating the vehicle for three thousand miles. The first problem we encountered was the service engine lamp coming on and I thought the oil they used was coating the sensor again. I removed the sensor and found some oil on it which I cleaned off and reinstalled the sensor. Within ten miles the lamp was on again. I removed the sensor but there was no coating of oil on it. I then placed our scan tool on the engine and quickly discovered the airflow rate was too high for the sensor. I then realized the manufacturer had moved the position of the sensor into a higher airflow and velocity position trying to squeak a little more power from their system. I continued the test having to deal with the service engine lamp throughout the test period. The engine oil analysis gave a Silicon reading of eight (8 and along with the engine lamp problem did not give the manufacturer high mark but I felt if I discussed the problems with them maybe we could overcome them. I placed four calls to the manufacturer and I am still waiting for a call back! This surely eliminated this manufacturer.
The third manufacturer we tested was AFE (Advanced Flow Engineering). We used their Magnum Force air intake system. We operated the vehicle for 3000 miles and when the oil analysis came back it was promising with a Silicon reading of five (5). While five was the best Silicon result we had, it was not good enough. I called AFE and was pleasantly surprised when I discovered they were truly concerned. I spoke with a Mr. Paul Hardley who suggested I try their Pro-Guard 7 media they were about to release. He explained the new Pro-Guard 7 media was five layers of progressively finer mesh medical grade cotton gauze with micro fibers that attract smaller and smaller particles as air passes through. Combined with the five layers of medical [gauze] media, there are two layers of non-woven synthetic polyester fabric with random porosity. The filter media is sandwiched between two layers of aluminum wire mesh. He agreed to send two Pro-Guard 7 filters for a new test. I installed the Pro-Guard 7 filter, changed the engine oil and operated the vehicle for three thousand miles. The engine oil analysis was excellent with a Silicon reading of below three (3). Finally we found an air intake system that gave us a higher flow rate and better filtration. The AFE Magnum Force air intake system is a well designed system, easily installed and uses about 90% outside air. The filter is cleanable and the oil used to coat the filter is patented because it is formulated not to affect the airflow sensor.
Another positive factor of the high flow system was the fuel economy increased about ½ MPG in mixed driving and 1 MPG during highway tests. The filter media used by AFE will not collapse if it gets wet or subject to high boost pressures. They also offer pre-filters for most of their applications for very dusty or dirty operating conditions. We carry a full line of AFE products with Pro-GUARD 7 media. If you order an AFE system from another source, make sure it has a Pro-GUARD 7 media.
A very important factor in this test was the manufacturer was willing to discuss problems with their products and help to overcome them. My hat is off to Paul Hardley and all the people at AFE!
Dan Montegari
President
Precision Diesel Services
Call us if you need any help.
Mark @ DPPI
SnoKing
TDR MEMBER
trqmnstr said:
I called Outerwares directly 1-800-967-3450. Mine is open at the top, for the filter minder. PN 20-1749-01 WR275-11BK NO TOP, Logo 26. 75 plus delivery. Filter was 39. 95, yes on filter 6637(I posted the wrong number first time) This is a cross to the Fleetguard AH1141. It is 8. 5 in dia and 11. 25 long. I cut a 2" long piece of 4" SS exhaust pipe and put it inside the neck of the filter. Heat shield is 19. 95 for HY, HX takes a different one. SNOKING
Last edited:
(SIGH!)
This subject comes up about as often as "which brand/type oil is best for my engine" - and the resulting posts rarely contain anything NEW!
After wading thru this stuff NUMEROUS times (a simple use of this boards SEARCH feature sure would save lots bandwidth and repetitious posts!), it has become rather clear that the stock paper OEM filters, and SOME of the smaller and less efficient K&N oiled types are NOT adequate for the Cummins - and that gets even WORSE as power adders are installed.
BUT, a number of us HAVE used the larger sized K&N types with excellent success - I have used one pretty much from day one on my old '91, and stuck with it for 120,000 miles. I've had the current K&N on my '02 for well over 25,000 miles, and NO problems of ANY kind with any sensors, and the inlet to MY turbo looks like THIS:
#ad
DON'T be confused by what APPEARS to be dust buildup in the above photo - that inlet and inpellers are PERFECTLY clean, it's only light shadows that make it appear otherwise! The inlet on my '91 looked much the same at 120,000 heavy towing miles, and with an engine that was pretty well "tweaked"...
I've posted THIS oil analysis sheet before as well, but will again - pat special attention to Silicon and wear metals readings:
#ad
Personally, I suspect the K&N is about one step up from the stock filter, the conical K&N absolutely the WORSE due to poor surface area - followed upward in efficiency by a wide array of commercially offered setups usually using a filter with larger surface area, and the absolute BEST, is one of the BHAF types, which is what *I* plan on installing this spring before the RVing season - but NOT because of ANY problems or complaints with the K&N - it's just hard to ignore the efficiency and HUGE surface area of the BHAF!
This subject comes up about as often as "which brand/type oil is best for my engine" - and the resulting posts rarely contain anything NEW!
After wading thru this stuff NUMEROUS times (a simple use of this boards SEARCH feature sure would save lots bandwidth and repetitious posts!), it has become rather clear that the stock paper OEM filters, and SOME of the smaller and less efficient K&N oiled types are NOT adequate for the Cummins - and that gets even WORSE as power adders are installed.
BUT, a number of us HAVE used the larger sized K&N types with excellent success - I have used one pretty much from day one on my old '91, and stuck with it for 120,000 miles. I've had the current K&N on my '02 for well over 25,000 miles, and NO problems of ANY kind with any sensors, and the inlet to MY turbo looks like THIS:
DON'T be confused by what APPEARS to be dust buildup in the above photo - that inlet and inpellers are PERFECTLY clean, it's only light shadows that make it appear otherwise! The inlet on my '91 looked much the same at 120,000 heavy towing miles, and with an engine that was pretty well "tweaked"...
I've posted THIS oil analysis sheet before as well, but will again - pat special attention to Silicon and wear metals readings:
Personally, I suspect the K&N is about one step up from the stock filter, the conical K&N absolutely the WORSE due to poor surface area - followed upward in efficiency by a wide array of commercially offered setups usually using a filter with larger surface area, and the absolute BEST, is one of the BHAF types, which is what *I* plan on installing this spring before the RVing season - but NOT because of ANY problems or complaints with the K&N - it's just hard to ignore the efficiency and HUGE surface area of the BHAF!
Last edited by a moderator:
SnoKing
TDR MEMBER
Well, I never had oil problems with my inbox K&N either. I ran it around 30K without cleaning it also. People clean K&N's to often and tend to over oil them. HOWEVER, the BHAF has lowered my EGT's and that is the reason I switched to it. I also like the fit of the AH1141(NAPA6637) better than the AH19037. SNOKING
k&n trASHED mY tURBO Wouldn't recommend use on diesels
Gassers seem to do good.
The oil on fins is caused by over oiling the filter durring service which is very easy to do only a machine can oil a k&n to perfect factory specs .
You do not want to run a non oiled k&n filter either you'll sand blast your turbo internals,,, the sergical grade cotton is an oiled filter and is made so the oil catches debris not just the filtering of the cotton the dirtier the filter the better your filtration AS STATED BY K&N .
K&N makes a guallity product ... . it just needs to be used in the right applications Turbo equipt vehicals are not it. The High suction created from the turbo sucks all the oil off the filter and in the duct work turbo and motor then the filter will not filter . then you re-oil ... ... ... . and over and over. .
IMO
DM
Ill send you the BHAF Part numbers and the template for heat shield email your email address to
-- email address removed --
Gassers seem to do good.
The oil on fins is caused by over oiling the filter durring service which is very easy to do only a machine can oil a k&n to perfect factory specs .
You do not want to run a non oiled k&n filter either you'll sand blast your turbo internals,,, the sergical grade cotton is an oiled filter and is made so the oil catches debris not just the filtering of the cotton the dirtier the filter the better your filtration AS STATED BY K&N .
K&N makes a guallity product ... . it just needs to be used in the right applications Turbo equipt vehicals are not it. The High suction created from the turbo sucks all the oil off the filter and in the duct work turbo and motor then the filter will not filter . then you re-oil ... ... ... . and over and over. .
IMO
DM
Ill send you the BHAF Part numbers and the template for heat shield email your email address to
-- email address removed --
Last edited by a moderator:
My truck had a K&N dropin filter on it when i bought it . I got rid of it and replaced it with a AFE PG7 drop in . I might eventialy run a set up like SNOKING i like the fact that the filters arn,t to expensive . I go camping at a place in Nor CAL called Lake Pilsbury and you have to drive on dirt roads for awile to get there . By the time you get out of there your filters pretty dirty than i have a 3. 5 hour tow after that . With a BHAF i would take the filter off after the dirt roads toss it in the back and put a new one on and call it good 
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Issue 128 – Digital Version
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FREE!
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Renew
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Back Issues
Subscription Status
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