K&N opinion by someone who knows what he's talking about

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Page 93 of the latest TDR under Jim Anderson's colunm. "Though it (K&N) offers higher airflow capabilities, the K&N does not meet the Cummins Engine Company standard for particle size of air filtration. Nor does it meet the standard for dirt holding capacity. I threw my K&N in the trash----"

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99' Quad 4x4 A/T LB 3. 54 30K Miles.
26' Terry w/slide 7500GVWR
"KISS your truck and it will be forever faithful"

 

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I don't want to sound two-faced because I have tinkered with my truck #ad
, but I must agree with your decision on the trash addition. I was never particularly impressed with the workmanship/quality of the K&N. The stock air intake/filtration system reminds me, "If it ain't broke, don't fix (break) it. " If the turbo can blow, I figure it can suck, so... ... . suck!

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White 1999, 3500 QuadCab, 6x6, 275 injectors and Practical Solutions Module w/elbow, Automatic, Diamond Plate Running Boards and Flaps, Pac Brake, Missing Muffler, Grover Air Horns.
"SHAKE, RATTLE, AND ROLL"

 

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Take a look at the new AFE filters and word is they will have a replacement for the RE0880 in a few weeks! Carl

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WWCD2 HOME PAGE

 

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Has nobody been reading what I've been posting? Yes it is true about the K&N not meeting Cummins' standards for filtration. The fleetguard filter also does not meet Cummins standards either. You can look it up. From what I see, there is not a filter on earth that does meet Cummins standards, so I'll stick with the K&N. I've had my head off and I don't see any scuffing of cylinder walls, nor dirty valves, nor dust in the intake plenum.

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Chris Timochko
1997 5sp 4X4, HX40, BD 4" Brake, Marine Compression, Custom Tuned Injection Pump, 370B Injection Nozzles, Delivery Valves, Governor & AFC Spring Kit, Psychotty Air, Water Injection, NOS Diesel Kit, 6" Chrome Exhaust System, No Smoke Valet Switch, McLeod Dual Disc Clutch, Mag-Hytec Rear Cover, Cummins Chrome Kit, Optima Red Tops, Hadley Bully Horns, Hurst Line Loc, Goodyear Wrangler AT/S 305/70/16s. Test mule for Auto Wurks Diesel race program

 

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<font color=blue>Did you say something Chris??? #ad


Hmmmm maybe I am hearing things..... #ad



#ad

 

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The way i see it is if your truck can produce 27lbs of boost or more on original filter why would i need anything different. Most every thread i read states there is no HP improvement, and like i said if your already makeing 27lbs or more why change.
Regards, Ron

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1999, 3500, 6x6, slt, auto, 3. 54, Qd cab, ISB cummins, every option but CD player, running boards, tonue cover, front bushwacher fender flares, intense blue, agate interior. DD stage 1, PS boost module and elbow. towing 2001 26RKSS Tahoe 5th wheel, 1999 120hp 1800 bayliner,
as of 11-17 2000 21,500 miles.

 

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I've been using the K&N for over two years now and my oil analysis shows below average Silicon (5ppm) compared to a universal average of 9ppm. If the K&N wasn't doing the job, the Silicon would be higher. I'm not ready to throw it in the trash yet.

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1996 Dodge 2500 4X4 SC, SLT, Cummins 12V, 5-spd. , JRE 4" exhaust (my kitty ran away into the woods and the muffler fell off!), TST 280 HP/685 Ft-Lb Uprate Kit, AFC Spring Kit, Horton Fan Clutch, Jacobs/Ram Exhaust Brake, MagHytec Differential Cover, Prime-Loc, Rancho RS9000 Shocks, Combo Gauge, K&N Air Filter, Brite-Box, Geno's finger-touch oil pan drain plug, no turbo silencer ring, full-time fog lights.

 

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I have followed the endless filter discussion posts at length and conclude the K&N is a good filter, so long as you get a GOOD one. Mine was NOT one of the "Good" ones, and it let an alarming amount of fine dust pass through the media. I don't think K&N's quality is as consistent as it could be, and my ETH will never see another K&N again. The Amsoil in the stock airbox is hard to beat--low price, great airflow, dirt holding capacity, and supposedly filters to a smaller micron level (but I don't have any test data to back that up). Even with a couple gritty dust storms here not too long ago, the intake hose easily passed the "white glove test" when I checked last Sunday. The biggest downside is they do not make an RE0880 type cone, and are harder to clean and reoil.

Vaughn

 

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I've never had any dust in the intake plenum on my '97 using the K&N filter. There may or may not be any additional HP with the K&N but there IS quicker spoolup of the turbocharger or LESS TURBO LAG! Rate of engine acceleration is not to be ignored. Ask any racer.

Also my filter-minder never moves with the K&N installed, the stock filter would would register about 1/2 to 3/4 of the way on the filter-minder. Efficiency=lower pumping losses.

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1997 2500 Ext Cab 4X4,5 spd,3. 54's,Pac brake,Rancho 9000's,Centerforce clutch,K&N airfilter,Missing Cat,Isspro gauges,and #11plate(280hp/680tq)

 

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Rebel,

My filter minder didn't move either. Then the HX40-16 was installed. Boost isn't more than before, but the filter minder is down. More volume of air I'd guess. I'll clean the K&N & then see what happens.

I'm wondering if the stock size K&N isn't big enough to flow the HX40.


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Money Sink - 96, 5 speed, HX40-16, TST #11/280 slid + 300 HP Injectors.
4" CAT back & CATless, 4" chrome turn down straight out back.
ISSPRO Pillar, Delvac 1 & Amsiol, K&N, Mag-Hytec, 3:54, 235s on Alcoas, Rancho 9000's, Valentine One.
Un-Bombed = Boring

 

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I don't know who Jim Anderson is but I had the misfortune of reading his K&N commentary in the last TDR issue. His comments aren't worth the paper they were written on.

I have owned my '94 since new and I have tried virtually EVERY fiter combination possible. I also do oil analysis. I started with the stock box and stock filter. When my first oil analysis came back the silicon level measured 64. The report cautioned: "Silicon Level Is High - Recommend Check Air Intake System. " Normal is 25.

Certain the air filter was at fault I dumped the stock filter and repalced it with a K&N replacement. Next oil analysis read 33 which generated the same comment. Out went the K&N.

Next came the Amsoil... which was a DISASTER. It was so saturated with oil that it lined the turbo, intake and intercooler with oil which I cleaned with solvent not long after I had the pleasure of throwing the filter in the trash.

Finally, tried the K&N RE0880, first on its own and then with Psychotty Air. Not a speck of dirt or oil in the entire turbo system. Just received my last oil analyisis and the silicon level measured 4! I take that as conclusive proof that K&N works.

I believe the design of the stock filter box is inherently flawed. No matter what filter you run, the problem is the seal (or lack of) between filter and housing. You can never be sure it's airtight and if it's not rest assured air will pass around and not through the filter. The RE0880 solves the problem because it eliminates the sealing issue.

So before Jim Anderson or anyone else trashes the K&N, be sure the problem isn't the filter box. As far as I'm concerned if you run the stock box you're at risk. And from now on, anyone who trashes ANY air filter should back up his comments with conclusive proof like oil analysis. Without that kind of corroboration it's just so much hype and worth about as much as Jim Anderson's comments.

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'94 SLT 2WD, 5 Spd. , TST #6(250/635), 215 HP Injectors, Calibrated Pump, 14. 5 cm2 Turbo, ATS Exhaust Manifold, 3. 54, all Synthetics, By-Pass Filtration, EGT & Boost Gauges, Psychotty Air System, 4 " exhaust, BD Exhaust Brake, Horton Fan, Prime-Loc, Cummins Chrome Kit, Homeless Cat, Air Lifts, Rancho RS9000's, PIAA's, 255x85Rx16's and copious amounts of 12v Pride.

 

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EZ94, You took the word right out of my mouth. My silicon levels are staying right at 6 with my RE-0880 in Scotty's wonderful invention. I have never run an AmsOil filter, so I can't comment on it. But I did run a stock K&N for 40,000 miles and more than once there was dirt around the grease ring(sealing surface) on one side of the stock housing.

I am interested in the new AFE filters to try and overcome a problem with the RE-0880 filter in the Psycotty housing. If you seal off the outside of the housing it suck the RE-0880 in in the middle almost to the point of total failure. I have built a cage for the inside and am hoping the AFE filter are heavier screen.

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EAT'M UP
97 2500 Club 4X4 3. 54, Forrest Green/Driftwood, LSD 5 speed, & Psychotty Air System, TST #11, 370 HP injectors, timing at 16 deg. , 16CM2 housing, AFC spring kit, Geno's Exhaust Blanket, TST EGT gauge & 0-60 boost gauge in A Pillar, Cat-be-gone, 4" Dynomax Bullet muffler, Crome 4" turn down, AmsOil Through out, Geno's trans filter kit, AmsOil Bypass system, Lund Winter front, Leer Cab Level Shell Driftwood , 255/85R16, Dyno'd 342 HP pre injectors & turbo housing *NRA/USPSA member and proud of it*

 

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I too have followed the endless K&N filter threads. I have always opted to stick with my K&N because I really like the quicker spool up and reduced turbo lag. I have to admit, though, the negative reports are starting to sway me and I'm starting to think about returning to paper. The only thing I have against the Scotty system is it eliminates the filter minder from the equation. I'm determined to have this truck a long, long time, so longevity is definitly an issue.

 

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EZ94, you are right on the money!

I have also used the Dodge/Fleetguard filter, Fleetguard filter, Cummins (Fleetguard) filter, XLerator (2 stage foam) filter, K&N RE-0880 cone filter (with the 25-0880 prefilter), and presently, the OE style K&N flat panel filter in my Air Bulldog replacement air box base. Of every combination listed above, the two K&N filters netted the lowest silicon levels on my oil analysis reports. Conclusive enough for me. #ad

 

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I'm one of the guys that isn't a K&N fan on a turbo'd engine. I'm running the stock Mopar filter (paper with a foam prefilter) and my oil analysis just came back with 5ppm silicon. I like the mopar filter (Fleetguard actually) because of the foam pre-filter (Fleetguard from Cummins doesn't have the foam). That's after two weekends of driving on the Silver Lake sand dunes (read TONS of sand), btw. My truck was dyno'd at 313 hp/763 ft/lbs and it doesn't suck the filter minder down until the filter is getting dirty - it works great. I did remove the snorkel between the airbox and the fender. One note is that according to Mark Chapple if you remove the pre-filter (or run the Cummins fleetguard) it will reduce your EGT's by about 50 degrees. I don't have an EGT problem (hit 1300 after a full dyno run) so I prefer the better filtering.

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-Steve St. Laurent - President of the Great Lakes TDR
'98 QC LB (CMNSPWR), 4x4, ISB, 5sp, 4. 10 LSD, TST Powermax, 275hp RV injectors, SW fuel pressure gauge, BD exhaust brake, Isspro turbo temp monitor, front Draw-Tite receiver, rear Draw-Tite class V receiver, BFG 285/75R16 AT KO's, (all the common stuff clipped)

[This message has been edited by Steve St. Laurent (edited 11-19-2000). ]

 

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Boys, if you don't have 24 valves, you can't suck enough air to make the filter minder pull down.

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99' Quad 4x4 A/T LB 3. 54 30K Miles.
26' Terry w/slide 7500GVWR
"KISS your truck and it will be forever faithful"

 

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Forrest, if you haven't done so yet, yank out the snorkel between your airbox and fender. . . that is like sucking air through a straw for an HX40 operator #ad
!

EZ94, my K&N problems were with the RE0880. It was sealed properly and very well, with the 4" dia 1" wide steel ring inside. With the lightly oiled big red prefilter sock, it still could not handle the abundance of fine dust in arid Eastern Washington. It was either a bad filter to start with, or it couldn't handle such fine dust (I heard this region has some of the highest concentration of micro fine dust particles known, FWIW). Like I said, I think the K&Ns for the most part are good filters, and oil analysis numbers speak to that. But I think what I experienced and what Jim Anderson said should be taken as words of caution when installing a new K&N. If it wasn't for the RE0880, the impressive phsychotty air system that Scott came up with wouldn't have been possible.

Vaughn

[This message has been edited by Vaughn MacKenzie (edited 11-19-2000). ]

 

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First of all... I know Tom (TLippy) just started this thread to stir the pot. He seems to live for these debates. If it gets real hot, he's in hog heaven. #ad


That aside, Steve, my experience with the OE Mopar filter element is that a higher percentage of air is taken around the periphery of the filter due to the foam prefilter used. . more so than either the Fleetguard or Cummins counterparts. Look at the edges of the pleats on a used Mopar filter and compare that with the other two aforementioned filtering elements.

 

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tlippy:

I have this recurring nightmare: I get hit at some intersection and my truck gets totaled. The nightmare is that I'll have to repalce it with an ISB. Truth be known I'd rather own a Ford than a 24v because the fuel delivery system in the newer trucks is so marginal.

My point being this is a discussion about Air Filters... please save the partisan comments for another thread. Oterwise it generates responses like this and the reason it does is some of us think very little of the newer trucks. The reason for the huge difference in performance between the two is spelled P1700. So, please, give it a rest.

 

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tlippy,
I enjoy some good natured ribbing amongst technical information.

We had better get an independent to settle this who always keeps his opinions to himself.

Steve St. ?? Where are you?

Gene