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"KDP" Killed today!

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Well today I finally broke down and murdered my "killer dowel pin". It was a pretty easy job. While I was in there I loc-tited all the bolts in the gear case and also put in a new crank seal and a new belt. The truck has about 72,200 miles on it right now. The pin was sticking out about 1/16", it was pretty snug so I don't know if it had moved or if that’s all the further it was put in at the factory. I punched the pin back in and did the tab fix. I can rest easy now knowing that the KDP can no longer kill me.



Mark
 
I did three of them the other day at the shop... one of them being mine. Overall the job is very straight forward, but important enough to take your time and do it correctly.
 
Don't forget to update your sig w/ this significant "improvement" .



Hence, it will be self evident to other TDR members that are not aware of the situation.



Mike

:)
 
Folks,



This may have been discussed before, but I'm going to bring it up again.



I want to kill the dowel pin issue, but I have questions.



Do I need any special tools to do the job?



Do gaskets need to be replaced during this operation, if so, which ones?



Does oil need to be removed?



Do I need to pull the radiator and intercooler?



Aprox how long does it take?



Any other words of wise to the inexperienced like myself?



:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
 
Mark



You got two ways to go.



1) Search for the KDP JIG that is being passed around for super easy fix w/ only minor drawbacks (1 could end up w/ alum shavings in motor 2 if the KDP has moved you gotta take it apart anyways) Most are going w/ this method. Maybe get some other members in your area together & get on the KDP JIG list & then do 'em all at once.



2) Go w/ the washer-tab method. Search & you will find info on this. Only special tool is a 36mm wrench for the fan nut either way. BTW, the washer-tab fix was very straight fwd to accomplish & everything was an easy job except for that stupid fan blade nut. #ad




Cost was:

a seal kit pn3804899,

timing cover gasket pn3918673

total $58 delivered to my door, courtesy of Cummins Rky Mtn.



For me, after I got my stuck fan blade nut free, it was all down hill from there #ad








Pls activate KDP link on my sig for pic's on dowel pin location.
 
Mikepvg,



Thanks for the information. I was able to find the parts (Thanks to your part numbers :D ) at a place called "BUCKEYE WESTERN STAR" about 11 miles from my home. Found them on the Cummins site search. The local dodge dealer from me (about 5 miles from home) wanted more than double for the parts. :mad:



Seal Kit: $24. 93

Gasket : $21. 07

Total : $46
 
If you go with the tab make sure you put the crank seal in from the back like the manual says, I didn't and I damaged the cover, $60 bucks :mad: . The rest was easy. Also instead of a 36mm wrench you can use a 1 7/16th. Do a search for "killer dowel" and you'll find some more advice. Don't use three letter words in your search as they won't work anymore (ie. oil, pin, tow, nut, TPS ). If you have problem installing the seal or think you might just take it (the cover and seal) to a machine shop or Cummins and have them install it, for me that was the hardest part. I would do it again, mine was also sticking out about a 1/4 inch so I feel better for fixing it. Took the better part of a day to complete.
 
Barry is right about that crank seal being a bit finicky & doesn't really like being hit w/ a hammer.



If u have the appropriate size vice clamp, just press it in.



Or perhaps u have a large wood C-clamp, it can also easily be pressed in that way.



POC

:)
 
The seal installation was the easiest part for me. I used a large axle nut socket to get it started and flush with the cover and then used the seal installer that came with it to finish it off. I put mine in from the front, didn't know it was supposed to go in from the rear. It worked fine though; there is lots of room on the crank for different seal locations. I had a small wear groove from the outer lip of the seal anyway so having it relocated was perfect. My 2 cents.
 
Cummins response:

Wow, I'm finally going to make a post over here. A friend of mine was just made aware of this problem at last nights San Jose RamRunner's meeting, and he decided to contact the "PowerMaster" himself (Cummins web site) to see what Cummins official stand was on the matter. I am going to repost the response for the TDR and I truely appologize if someone has already done so or I am passing on old info. I will also post his original questions as well. Here it goes:





Details:

Hi,



I own a 1997 Dodge truck with the 5. 9 Cummins engine. I recently heard from some other owners of the same truck/engine that there may be a problem with a dowel pin that aligns the front gear cover on the engine. What I was told is that some of the dowel pins are falling out into the gears and destroying the cover and causing the loss of oil pressure. There was also a mention of three bolts that are underneath the cover that tend to come loose. I have looked in the Dodge service manual and can't locate the dowel pin in the diagram of the cover and I am not clear as to what three bolts they were talking about either.



Could you please clarify as to whether or not this is something I should be worried about. I'm not sure if it is a problem that a few people had or if it's something that I need to be concerned with getting checked out immediately. If it's a problem I will take my truck to the local Cummins repair center and have them check it out. I just don't want to be on a long trip this summer and have a major mechanical breakdown, especially if I can prevent it.



Thank you for your time, I look forward to hearing from you.









Solution:



Thanks very much for your email messages on the Dodge/Cummins 6BT5. 9 timing gear cover to block dowel pin.



We have also heard about the TDR messages that customers have been sending in on this subject and a review of the dowel pin issue has been done by Cummins. This is how we know the issue today:



The locating dowel pin diameter from the supplier and the hole drilled for the pin, are designed to be 'press fit' dimensions. In some rare cases, the supplied dowel pin dimension and the drilled hole dimension, may not provide the correct 'press fit'. During assembly line manufacturing, it is impossible to determine the amount of 'press fit' between the dowel pin and the drilled hole, once the dowel pin is installed into the bore.



A few of the dowel pins have not had the correct 'press fit' in the drilled hole and have worked out of the hole, during normal engine operation. If the pin works itself all the way out of the bore, it can drop down into the gear train, which may or may not cause extensive damage to the gear train and gear cover. The percentage of failure is very, very low and does not justify a major campaign of all engines. If an unexpected failure should occur during the warranty period of the engine, the repair will be handled under normal Dodge warranty practices.



Since the Dodge warranty period for the diesel-powered trucks is 5 years or 100,000 miles, this issue would occur during the normal warranty period. A dowel pin coming out after this warranty period would not be considered a manufacturing defect.



The chances of failure was greatly diminished in early 1998 when the gear cover was changed to a 'blind hole' design, which would not let the dowel pin move out of the bore. If a Dodge customer has a great fear of this dowel pin coming out on earlier models, we suggest discussing the issue with your local Dodge dealer, to determine the appropriate action in each situation. In non-Dodge applications, the customer should contact the OEM dealer or the nearest authorized Cummins dealer or distributor.



The dowel pin itself can be replaced if desired or Locktite can be used to hold it in place, without having to replace the pin or gear housing assembly.



Inspection and securing of the timing cover dowel pin:



1. Remove the damper, pulley and gear cover from front of engine.

2. Tap on the dowel pin with a flat punch to insure that it is seated in the bore.

3. Clean all the oil from area with solvent and dry completely.

4. Apply some wicking type Locktite on the dowel pin and let the Locktite cure.

5. Reinstall the cover with a new seal and gasket.

6. Reinstall damper and pulley.



We hope this helps you better understand the dowel pin issue. We don't know about the three bolts you are talking about.



Thank you for your interest in Cummins power or products. Please let us know

if you need assistance in locating the nearest Cummins-authorized distributor or dealer. Please feel free to use our International Dealer Locator: (http://www.cummins.com/partserv/intro.html) found on the Customer Assistance page of the Cummins website (www.cummins.com).



Let us know if you have other questions, or if away from your computer, feel free to call us toll free at 1-800-DIESELS (343-7357).



Regards,

--

Powermaster

Customer Assistance Center

Cummins Inc.

Email: -- email address removed --

Ref: CAC ID
 
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