KDP Questions

[btoscano]

Hey all,



I removed the timing case cover to check and tab the KDP. I have some observations/questions.



1. The dowel pin appers to be fine.



2. The pictures online are different from my timing case cover. They must be from a later truck? Mine has some extra metal between the bolt and the pin so the $1 dealer tab won't work without case modifcation?



3. A few inches above the bolt that usually holds the tab, is there supposed to be another bolt? I have a bit of stubble there that looks like it might have had a bolt head at one time. The case shows what looks like the washer indent from the wide bolt head.



4. To "kill" KDP should I modify the case to use the dealer part by removing that thin extra metal around the pin? Or should I use a coathanger or other piece of thick steel to fit the case? Or should I do nothing at all - it hasn't moved in 216Kmi it isn't likely to move anytime soon?



Thanks,

Brian

 

[tugboatphil]

Brian,



Philip took care of mine when I was changing injectors and a few other things. He used an air chisel to "mangle" the edge of the hole around the dowel. It had moved slightly, and he punched it back in. We also discovered that all the bolts were a little loose.



Don't know what to tell you about the "extra" bolt. Good luck. Oh yeah, since you've opened the case, do something about the dowel; tab, mangling... . that way you know it won't come out.

 

[Paychk]

Hey all,



I removed the timing case cover to check and tab the KDP. I have some observations/questions.



1. The dowel pin appers to be fine.



2. The pictures online are different from my timing case cover. They must be from a later truck? Mine has some extra metal between the bolt and the pin so the $1 dealer tab won't work without case modifcation?



3. A few inches above the bolt that usually holds the tab, is there supposed to be another bolt? I have a bit of stubble there that looks like it might have had a bolt head at one time. The case shows what looks like the washer indent from the wide bolt head.



4. To "kill" KDP should I modify the case to use the dealer part by removing that thin extra metal around the pin? Or should I use a coathanger or other piece of thick steel to fit the case? Or should I do nothing at all - it hasn't moved in 216Kmi it isn't likely to move anytime soon?



Thanks,

Brian

1 Did you try to seat it with a good size hammer & pin punch?



2 Some have had to bend the tab to fit



3 Is this what your cover looks like? (tried to find a bigger pic & couldn't)



#ad




4 See # 2



Did you pull all the bolts you can get to (may need to roll the engine over), clean, lock-tite, reinstall, correct torque??

 

[btoscano]

Thanks for responses and now more questions.



1. What's the best way to turn the engine over?



2. I tried the Cummins barring tool that I had in the toolbox, but it doesn't seem to work!!?? I turns with resistance, but the crank does not turn. I'm not sure what is going on with that? (I put the crank pully back on and used a strap wrench to turn it. Not very easy or precise!)



3. The pump gear has letters on it. Before I removed it, I noted the position as "E" when lined up to the "0" on the cam gear. The next tooth over is "C" which I belive would advance it. Do these letters mean anything and if so does anybody have the list of what they mean?



4. Does it make any sense for me to put the pump gear back one tooth advanced and rotate the pump so its housing is more centered in the adjustment range?



Thanks,

Brian

 

[Paychk]

Best way to turn the engine is with the baring tool, transmission needs to be in neutral, and the tool needs to engage the ring gear on the flywheel.



Can't answer your other q's I've never messed with the timing of the injector pump. Maybe PB or Greenleaf or someone with pump experience can jump in.

 

[bgilbert]

Brian, according to my Cummins manual pub in 99, says E is the correct letter for the pump gear to camshaft gear. You guys must of gotten it correct, I suggest putting it back in the same place. E is for 86-92 CARB. C is for for 86-87 EPA, all pre 86, All noncertified, CPL600. EPA and CARB are regulating agencies.



For turning the engine over, use one of the 15mm I think bolts that hold the dampner to the crank. Rotation is clockwise when looking at the front of the engine.



I have not done a KDP, so I can't help ya there.

 

[btoscano]

Bill,



What is the part number of the book you are getting this information from?



There are other letters on the gear, does the book tell you what they are for also?



Thanks,

Brian

 

[bgilbert]

Bulletin No. 3666087-01 Printed in 10/99. Thats the one you want. The early one without the -01 is like pre 91.



Yes, but they are options for the 4B, T, and TA, with different injection pumps, and years. I gave you the only two combinations/letters that relate to your engine/injection pump setup.

 

[btoscano]

So the B5. 9 used in Dodge trucks with a VE-44 was always set to "E" regardless of CARB or EPA?



I guess Calif. didn't regulate diesel light trucks any more strictly than the feds back then.



Mine's a 1993 just realized I don't have it in my signature.



Thanks,

Brian

 

[bgilbert]

So the B5. 9 used in Dodge trucks with a VE-44 was always set to "E" regardless of CARB or EPA?



I guess Calif. didn't regulate diesel light trucks any more strictly than the feds back then.



Mine's a 1993 just realized I don't have it in my signature.



Thanks,

Brian

Yes, E.



You have a 93 model, but I bet Cummins considers the engine a 92, might even been built in 92. Either way, don't worry about it, E.

 

[btoscano]

Thanks Bill.



Anybody have ideas as to why the baring tool didn't seem to turn the crank over? I think it was doing something because there was resistance and marks on the teeth of the baring tool, but I'm not sure what is happening!



Brian

 

[Greenleaf]

I hate barring tools. I use the following;



Harmonic hub bolts (15mm soccet and long wratchet)

Flex plate ring gear (small wide blade pry bar)



Some guys like to use the alternator pulley nut. (backwards of course)



-S

 

[btoscano]

What happens if the crank pulley bolts that you used to turn over the engine become very, very tight as a result turning them clockwise (tightening) them to turn the engine over? Is that not much of a risk in this engine?



Brian

 

[Greenleaf]

I have never "tightened" one of them simply by turning the engine over (barring). I have turned a great many of engine over with said cap screws (bolts).



If you ever remove a balancer, get yourself a BIG hammer, 6point 1/2" or 3/4" drive 15mm soccet and a 3/4" breaker bar. Now, smack that breaker bar as hard as you can to initially loosen them cap screws. Then the hub/ balancer assy. will almost fall off the crank's snout once them fasterners are removed.



GL

 

[JLEONARD]

GL is right... you will NEVER tighten the bolts by rolling the engine over with a ratchet handle.

And IF they loosen when you turn it backwards... . be glad you found it!!

Jay

 

[btoscano]

Okay well I already have a 3/4" breaker bar for doing the upper ball joints on my former D250.



I used a bent up coat hanger to cover the dowel pin. Does anyone think this will be insufficient to keep the dowel pin from moving? I found it was too much work to make the factory tab work correctly. The first gens have a lot of extra metal that the later models do not.



Brian

 

[Greenleaf]

I made a tab for my 92 model truck from a small section of steel stock. Not too thin but not too thick. I have no idea what size material. You are correct. There is a step inside that case you have to work around. Takes time to correctly form the tab. I made one with a step.



I have never heard of coat wire used. Perhaps you'll be concidered a pioneer. I'd personally prefer heavy sheet steel.



Scott

 

[btoscano]

Comparing to the "bendability" of the thin Cummins dealer tab to the coat hanger, my coat hanger is harder to bend. My dowel pin was backed out about 1/8" after close inspection and took many swings with the hammer to knock it back flush. I suppose the 1st gens do not have the problem of the 2nd gens because of all that extra metal to keep it from falling down. Some said the later covers solve the problem? Is this really the case? That would be the most elegant solution. I wonder how much the timing case cover costs.



Brian

 

[Greenleaf]

The fix is the tab or peen method. The second gen case has no step and therefore, less material in which to hold the pin. Still, it's a good idea for "us" to secure ours as they have fallen in some cases.



I have seen the Cummins dealer tab unit. I wasn't impressed. Mine is two/three times that thick. I also employed a tad bit longer cap screw (bolt) to make up for the additional thickness of my homemade tab.



Scott

 

[btoscano]

I used a longer bolt as well.



I think the Cummins tab works well enough despite its thinness because it secures flat against the cover therefore eliminating vibration which is probably what works the dowel pin out in the first place.



What exactly is the peen method?



-brian