Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) KDP tabb'n...OH..MY..DOG..WHAT..IS..THIS???

[Ol'TrailDog]

Well, I'm in the middle of tabbing the KDP. All a part and ready to fashion a tab. This has been fun



TIME WARP:

Remember the ha,ha post asking about engine id. numbers - of course not because you didn't respond. Anyway, after I bought the truck and was ordering some parts I was asked what engine id. So's I sashay out to the truck, pop the hood, and no engine id tag on the timing cover. So, I joked about this pup beening wrecked and having a 92 CTD with 777K miles on it stuffed into it... ha, ha. So I crawled all over and posted a bunch of numbers from the oil pan and the block, but didn't get a response.



* Oil pan: 3925772

* Underneath the drivers side of the intake manifold or head, I forget now, sort of behind the P7100: 3253925400

* On the drivers side of the block there are the following in vertical format, versus horizontally, 3924606USA and then T4 below the USA



BACK TO PRESENT:

So, I looking at the dowell pin. Good news, it insn't even close to moving, i. e. about 3/16" back in the hole. But what the hay? Why is there a "step" between the capscrew and the hole? How am I suppose to put a tab with the step there? This doesn't make sense. So I haul out all the posts I've printed to tackle this job. I look at some pics Muddymess posted about a 92 that Harold fixed - actually had a capscrew fall out and royally capscrewed the internals That's why the tab versus the jib job. Can't seem to find the thread to post the link with muddymess's pics. Got to get back to the shop.



So now I'm really puzzled. According to the door post sticker this truck was assembled in 2/97. What is the deal with the step, boss, raised portion where the kdp is? The other tabbing pics show a raised rib above the kdp and capscrew but not a raised step where the kdp is. Could this really be an earlier engine?



If so, hello Carfax... remember your commercials about the buyback??? Hello Lithia??? Gee, this is sure a sweet truck. Could it have kdp-ed before and the timing cover is off an earlier CTD - that's why they removed the engine id?



Any thoughts, oh wise ones?

 

[Bob V]

Sounds to me that the dowl pin has come out once and the front cover has been replaced

 

[Joe G.]

Bob has got it. Take a look here to see the gear case with the stop:

http://www.flex.net/~triplem/new/dowelpin.htm

 

[Forrest]

That last picture is great. :-laf What a ton of different tools. :--)

 

[Ol'TrailDog]

You idiots! That can't be it. Because my truck is BLACK and not RED.



Anyways, I ended up peening/staking the little whuur. The capscrews were brown loctited. Hmmm... isn't that typically original from the factory? Anyway I'll sleep tonight and when I head for AK next friday.



Gosh, that was actually fun. Almost like having my ol' Land Rover with the iron duke, the Willy's Wagon with the V6 out of a Commando, or my faithful but sloooowww 65 F250 (Heck had to rebuilt Ol' Smaug at only 150k ) back in the garage. Didn't have to do a bit of wrenching on the other CTD trucks. Missed a lot of fun. I am enjoying the 12v more each day. And remember - no more payments

 

[Lightman]

The housing couldnt be off a 92 or 93 the mounting for the injection pump is different sounds like its had the problem and been repaired with a new housing

 

[JLinder]

FYI- At least on the larger engines (NT, N14, M11, L10, ect. ) Cummins stamps the ESN on the left side of the block below the head. Of course I believe where they put it you would have a heck of a time finding behind the P7100.

 

[Ol'TrailDog]

JLinder, that is where I located the following:



Drivers side under the P7100 - 3924606USA and then a T4 below the USA



Any idea how to decode this pup?

 

[RON'S RAM]

Here is the phone number to Cummins Customer Assistance Center. 1-800-343-7357. I tried to call for you because they say a customer assistance specialist is available 24/7. Guess what? The customer assistance recording is actually what is available after 7:00 pm. est. and until 7:00 am. So you can try during the day or try to get an email response at -- email address removed --

Good luck, Ron

 

[Ol'TrailDog]

Thanks a bunch for the phone number Ron. Helpful folks.



I called Cummins and they told me where to locate the engine id # on the block - right above the oil filter. So I went home for lunch and checked. Nope, no serial number there. So I called Mike back and he ran the VIN for me. The VIN doesn't list an id # for that truck. He said it wasn't uncommon for them to not have a #. That would square with why there isn't a # associated with the VIN. Whether this is true or not, I'm at a dead end



Thus, I'll just have to drive it like I stole it. :-laf

 

[JLinder]

I called Cummins and they told me where to locate the engine id # on the block - right above the oil filter.

That's good to know where it is located on the b series motors.

 

[RON'S RAM]

They couldn't even tell you what all the numbers that you did find meant? Someone has got to know. I hate it when I get an answer like he gave you. Usually that means he doesn't know, not necessarily that it doesn't have one. Hard to believe that a company as big as Cummins would build an engine with no Id # or put #s on that no one knows what they mean. Maybe you should send Cummins an email with the numbers you have and their locations and maybe get a different answer? I wonder if a line set ticket from the Dodge dealer would give you an engine ID # that might match what you found? I wouldn't give up just yet. Good luck, Ron

 

[Ol'TrailDog]

Hard to believe that a company as big as Cummins would build an engine with no Id #

Yeah, I know, that's what I thought. So when I incredulously asked if it could be possible, I was told that it wasn't uncommon. Since the guy had been so very helpful and friendly I didn't want to turn a pleasant conversation contentious.



Ron, I took your suggestion and email the powermaster.

 

[Andy Redmond]

It is common for Dodge not too fool with moving the data tag from an old to new gear housing, Cummins rarely stocks the "rivets. " Dodge is bad about not repainting the gear housing, is it a bare aluminum color or painted Titanium Black like the rest of the engine? I had to go to their scrap heap to get mine off the old housing in 1999.



The data tags are no longer available.



Cummins can cross reference your vin to a serial number, you will most likely need the "parts research specialist" to do this at Cummins.



Many B-Series in Dodge apps do not have a ESN stamped on the casting above the oil cooler to block casting.



Others are correct, if it was an earlier block they swapped a gear housing cause a p pump won't bolt up to the earlier VE pump housing.



It is also common for a good pressure washer or steam cleaner to blow the tag off the engine.



Your ESN will start with 56 followed by 6 more numeric digits.



Here's a ESN grabbed off an RO of a 97 auto trans. . so you can order parts at Cummins: 2/97, so a 1997 model year.



97 auto trans=56296003 (most things will interchange) bear in mind the you have the better pump and injectors (manual trans truck) and have no need for the TPS.





Hope this helps,



Good luck

Andy

 

[Ol'TrailDog]

Thanks Andy for the additional info.



It is a bear aluminum cover indicating a possible KDP disaster in the past. Mike at the cummins hotline asked if the P7100 lines came out the top of the injection pump, which they do, that indicates it is a least older than an 94.



Probably the original motor that someone lost playing KDP roulette



Won't happen again.



Last night installed a new fuel sending unit, which I got free from Lithia. Also did the fuel sending unit fix I saw on dodgeram. org (if I remember right). Kinda of cool to have a working gauge :-laf . Cut the flatbed mounting brackets and will drill and mount tonight if all goes well.

 

[Andy Redmond]

T Dog:

It is a bear aluminum cover indicating a possible KDP disaster in the past. Mike at the cummins hotline asked if the P7100 lines came out the top of the injection pump, which they do, that indicates it is a least older than an 94.

? Older than a 94? (89-93's had the rotory VE injection pump, which used different lines) The lines should be the same from 94-98 (pre-24v) trucks.



Not sure what he refers to. maybe the other inline pumps/injection line differences found on non-Dodge application for the vintage.



I'm betting the pin came out and cracked the housing, which was changed it sounds like. So I bet you have the correct motor. .



If you ever have the gear housing cover off again, look carefully at where the cam gear is pressed onto the camshaft and look for any signs of cracking).



Many dealerships purchased the Cummins Service tool "gear puller/installer" $1700 ish to cut on labor (so cam doesn't have to be removed) when the housing is changed.



Joe Donnelly and others have warned that the webs of the cam gear usually crack if this lesser repair was performed (what causes the cracking is heating the gear enough to properly press it fully back onto the cam, but can damage the cam gear).



Good luck on your flatbed. . I guess winter hay season/firewood is upon you. . ?



I grew up in Thermop. You are not far from the best snowmobiling in America!



Bet you have a coat on this morning, the a/c is on here!



Andy