Archived KDP Warranty Service

[Sleeper]

My truck has just been diagnosed with a dowel pin failure. It's been leaking oil for some time now and I just got it in to the dealer. It has 167,000 km (ie warranty expires at 160,000) and is under 5 years old. The dealer was not a lot of help and said call the 1-800 number. Has anyone been in a similar situation? ie just out of warranty? Does Daimler/Chrysler Canada have a policy on this? Do they contract it out to Cummins? If they are not going to cover it, I'll get Piers to fix it. He's just up the road from me. I'd like to get some background before I call tomorrow.



The thought of some minivan guy who touches a diesel once a month fixing my truck scares the ___ out of me.



Phil

 

[illflem]

Unless you find a dealer who likes you enough to change some numbers you're out of luck. I heard of DC denying warranty with just 100 miles over the mileage. Can't blame them, you have to draw the line somewhere.

 

[Sleeper]

Am I the only Canadian that's had this failure?

 

[rhoads]

KDP

When you need a doctor you don"t go to the dentist!!

Your best shot is go to cummins!! They won't /can't touch the eng if it si not over 100,000 mi. After that D/C cant say say a word...

That is the rule--D/c does all warranty work on the eng till that point,d/c covers the cost to you-cummins refunds them. In a nut shell that is how it is set up.

That said --there is a "design flaw" ,and -will Mother cummins help owners out is the big question???

If I/ You had a fleet of cummins equip'd veh there would be some help% $ base'ed on size-miles ect. .

Now you know She wouldnt want me/you jumping the fence going to Cat-Detroit (our case Ford/Duramax) .

We are not a Schneider-Holland-TMC-Fed-X- Ryder -ect-ect" get the picture,--We are indenpendt owners & members of "TDR "which all of us have a vested interest in the product , And as a group own more engines than that of the northern american's largest fleet .

I would say what about it TDR are our membership's worth posing the question to Mother Cummins??? Yes fair is fair orginal owners or second owners included or excluded ????

When was the last survey done on line/or publication what we would like to have as to eng/or vehicle inprovements (design).

One would think D/c and eng builders would want a broader responce.

Back to your problen go to your closest Mother cummins distributor for engine repairs if over 100 k

 

[Joe G.]

Cummins does NOT warrantee the engine in Dodge pickups regardless of miles or type of failure. PERIOD! They do so for other applications using this engine. Dodge bought the engines as is with no warrantee of any kind from Cummins. Dodge saved quite a few bucks with this type of deal. So if Dodge does not deal with a failure you have no other place to do. Cummins will work on the engine at regular rates for parts and materials.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Your right Joe up t 100,000 Dodge owns the warranty and I know you gripe about the KDP alot.

Which Dodge will fix if it does dammage under warranty and Cummins bean counter's have pushed to the side saying it is trivial.

The KDP is like playing Russian Roulette. Who wants to be the sixth engine to bite the dust?

tdramrmbr made some good points. It is a known problem, if the KDP causes damage after the 100,000 mile warranty on an engine that has the life potential of 350,000 to 100,000,000 miles.

The TDR doesn't have a all the CTD's out there as members but it has enough to make something happen for the good of all CTD's.



Cummins, Dodge and mostly Cummin's suppliers of the KDP shoukld be responsible for it not coming out, not the owner of the Dodge/CTD truck.



This week I plan to have my mechanic go in a see how it looks and make sure it doesn't come out ever/ or ever again. The couple of hundred of dollars sounds better than a couple of thousand and knowing that the KDP won't stop me dead in my tracks while doing 65 mph on the highway.

 

[Joe G.]

Bill,



According to Pablo Madrid (mechanic for Cummins in San Diego) Cummins fixes a KDP failure if it's in a application other than Dodge. Dodge buys the engines with no warrantee of any kind from Cummins so they can save some bucks. Thus responsibility for a KDP failure is right in Dodge's lap. This thing is a manufacturing defect, but because of the way Dodge bought the engines it's up to Dodge to deal with it. It would probably take a class action law suit to get them to do that after the 100K warrantee is up.

 

[rrl989]

I took Cummins off my #1 list long ago, They suck, period. Its a manufacturing defect, thats right, a manufacturing defect, keep saying it ! They know it, we know it. The Dodge warranty issue is a technicality in my opinion. They know about us at the TDR and we represent how many Cummins owners ?? Cummins could care less, they have a prepared statment regarding the KDP defect, I killed the pin, but, they should have stepped forward and done the job.



Ron

 

[Joe G.]

That's exactly right, Ron. The technicality is worth a LOT of money to them so they will certainly hide behind it. With Dodge selling these trucks the way they are, Cummins can get away with it. So Dodge is saddled with it and are ignoring the problem. For all practical purposes we are stuck with fixing it ourselves.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Ok anyone have one the Dodge trucks sales brochures still I miss placed mine (it was from 94 or 95). I thought they mite have some info on who warranties the engine( even though they have a disclaimer) I know one has to go through Dodge dealers.



In My 96 warranty book it states,

Basic warranty covers everything execpt for a few items, engine not one of those items not covered.



On to Cummins Diesel Engine Limited Warranty.



" If your truck is equipped with a Cummins Diesel Engine, the "Cummins Diesel Engine Limited Warranty" begins at the end of the 3/36 Basic Warranty period, and covers the cost of repairing those parts of your truck engine listed that are defective in material , workmanship, or factory preparation. "



Looks like a vicious circle to me.

Who actually warranties the engine. By reading the warranty book I thought Dodge covered the first 36,000 and Cummins thru

Dodge covered the rest to 100,000. Guess they can toss the ball around.



After all doesn't stealer dealers call in Cummins reps to void engine warranties?



Class action law suit or National Highway Safety Recall, can't the dowel pin stop the engine dead (as in no moving parts) and at highway speeds this could be dangerous!

 

[Joe G.]

Lawyereze (is that a word?) strikes again. "Cummins Diesel Engine Limited Warranty... " doesn't really say Cummins Engine Company warrantees the engine. I think Dodge would like for us to assume that's what it says. It actually says that the extended warrantee on the Cummins Diesel engine begins after the 36 month basic warrantee runs out. Nothing there says that anyone except Dodge stands behind the warrantee.



The dealer in Eureka has fixed a couple of KDP failures under warrantee from what I've been told. They didn't send the jobs out to Cummins. No Cummins shop around here to send it to.



A class action law suit is probably a dead end. Who has the money and time needed to do that? The little technicality mentioned above lets Cummins off the hook when it really is their manufacturing defect causing the problem. Good luck sueing Dodge. They clearly state that after 100K any problems are ours. I would like to see a safety recall, but for that don't we have to point to a failure causing an accident? I've never heard of a KDP failure actually causing the engine to freeze.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Your right Joe single /class action is out to much money.



I thought I read a few post where the cams were jamed ($3000 worth of damage) and one post where they put a reman engine or new short/long block ($7000 worth) in KDP. Don't know if engines froze up totally, of course the truck would keep rolling if put into nuetral.



Well I got an appointment for Thursday to get mine fixed (not to come out).

 

[LAnthony]

Here is the deal

D/C buys theses engines from Cummins at a big fat discount because they ARE NOT paying for the Cummins warranty. They are then the party responsoble to pay for warranty issues. Cummins will fix the KDP problem in any engine that is warrented through Cummins. Your beef is with D/C, not Cummins. We are not responsible for the warranty on those engines because we didn't get paid for a warrenty on those engines. If Cummins sucks so bad, go buy a Power Stroke.

 

[Missouri Mule]

LAnthony,

Your going over the edge.



Cummins is great engine that is why I'm fixing it the Dowel problem with my own money.



One, it is an engineering flaw that is found the 94 thru 98 12 valves. As far as I know 89 to 93 engines are different as far as dowel pins correct me if I'm wrong please. 24 valves are definitely different they fixed the problem.



Two, the supplier of the dowel pins is a party in this unless Cummins bought the dowel pins at discount price ( as is no quality checks).



I'm not talking about warranties I'm talking about responsibility to ones customers.

Did Dodge design , order/ buy/set up the supplier for the parts, assembled them ?

Does Fram take responsiblity for what their filters may/can/have done to the Cummins engine no matter how many miles on the engine?

I'm willing to bet that if a supplier sent the wrong size parts( if they bought parts that had quality checks done on them) or there was a design flaw in the power stroke engine that International would take care of it.

 

[LAnthony]

Your missing my point. Part of the price of any Car Truck Or large vehicle is the warranty. Part of the money from every sale goes into a fund to cover warranty items. D/c has the warranty, and the money to fix it. If you bought the engine from us, W/ our warranty, we would fix it. It is not our responsibility to eat it financially because D/C is a bunch of crooks. If we were paid to warranty the engine we would.

Tell me why Cummins should take a loss on this, when D/C has your money and not Cummins. I again state, D/C buys these engine w/ no warranty, and w/ a big price break, because Cummins won't have the responsibility of paying for early failures. The price you pay D/C for the truck includes money for your warranty. They are responsible for it %100. Not Cummins, in any way.

 

[Missouri Mule]

I understand about buying as is. Your talking about a 100,000 mile warranty. Dodge will fix the engine after it is destroyed during the warranty period also.



I'm talking responsibilty.

The dowel pin and its hole are a design flaw. According to Cummins(unless some one made up the e-mail) some of the pins are not machined to the correct size to fit the hole drilled by Cummins snuggly so they won't wiggle out.

There is nothing in front of them to keep them from coming out do to vibration of the engine.



These are not gaskets that weren't placed on right or a damaged

during installation or water pump shaft that isn't aligned correctly... .

Now if Cummins is fixing the dowel pin problem before it tears up the engine for those companies that paid them warranty money thats great.

Once Cummins knew that some dowel pins were not the correct size they should of been sent back.

That is if they paid for "quality checks" if they did not then Cummins is responsble for the undersized dowel pins not the supplier or Dodge.

If they had paid for a suffient amount of quality checks than the supplier is responsible.

Dodge has been buying engines since 89 with no problems in this area as far as I know until 94.

Why should men/women that spent good/hard earned money end up paying for damaged engine after warranty runs out when the problem could of been taken care of on the assembly line or the receiving door (Cummins back door).

Now if Cummins warned Dodge in 94 about the dowel pin then the ball is in Dodge's hands(Dodge's back door).

 

[LAnthony]

I never said the end user should have to pay for anything. All I said is that Cummins shouldn't have to do service they were never paid for. nuff said.

 

[Joe G.]

Bill,



I saw the post about the loose dowel pins too. I'm a little bit skeptical. Four years of production with loose dowel pins? Hmmmmmm? Didn't somebody notice during all that time that some of them were pretty easy to press in? If they got rid of the loose ones why does the replacement gear case have a stepped bore the keep the (hopefully) tight ones in? I'm thinking they just bungled the gear case design from the get go.

 

[illflem]

As the miles pile on my feeling is that the loose pin theory is just an excuse for a flawed design that Cummins won't fess up to. I think they will all come loose given enough miles, vibration enlarges the hole. More and more pins are failing everyday, seems like if there was a size flaw that failures would have started slowing down by now. My2¢

 

[CPFF]

Ya think the WEIGHT of that P-7100 pump hangin off the side of the housing might have something to do with helping to shake the pin loose??



CPFF