2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission key off current draw

[Gene Heck]

NCostello,



I apologize, I meant to type 380 ma to 490 ma, not 38 to 49 as I did. Error on my part. Also I didn't know until a few minutes ago (when I was reading thru the 911 section) that that you had already posted on 911 and had already done all the basics. Sorry I couldn't be of more help. You seem to have the handle on your situation.



Gene

 

[illflem]

NC, I was just kidding about the battery.

I've never messed around much with the electrically locking seat belts but know how they work, just a solenoid that is energized for a period of time to allow you to retract the belt. I highly doubt the problem is coming from the belt end of the circuit but from the controller end. Does your truck have the feature where the doors lock after you reach a certain speed? On my Liberty that does the doors lock at the same time the solenoid releases and locks the belts though if you don't buckle up it still allows you to do so at any time while the seatbelt dash light is on only in the seat where it's not buckled, any other fastened belts will be locked. As soon as you buckle the solenoid locks the belts when moving. The belt unlock (power draw) happens when you open the door. There are sensors in the seat to tell if they're occupied for the warning light.



Anyway guess what I'm saying is there is a lot that comes into play with the belt release solenoid and probably a very set procedure for tracing any problems that only the manual is going to tell you. You very well could be doing something in your testing out of sequence and barking up the wrong tree.

My guess is the controller is messed up.

 

[Ncostello]

Sounds good to me illflem. My service manual should arrive any day now. I ordered it a week ago. I'll look into this more later. BTW, my truck is an ST. I dont have power anything except steering and brakes . So my doors dont automatically lock. All I could find was an ST when searching for a 2500 5spd Quad Shortbed. I looked and looked for a loaded rig but got tired after a year and didn't want an automatic. I settled for an ST to get the mechanical stuff I wanted more. Actually I never used the power locks on my other trucks and the window handle is very easy and close by... so I dont mind. Maybe I'll get some SLT seats and carpet someday.



Anyway... like you say its hard to test when I'm doing it blind I suppose. The manual will help. I do know that I did my tests with the doors closed and nobody sitting inside. So the controller should have locked the belts and thus no amp draw... if amp draw occurs when the selenoid is held unlocked. I look into the controller part later when the manual arrives. I knew I'd put that book to use soon.

 

[Ian]

Faulty retractors

Just a thought, is it possible to get your hand anywhere near the retractors, if one or both are continuing to draw power, they could be warm (or hot) to the touch.

My 2 cents worth.

Good luck.



Y2K D2500 Quad cab, long box.

 

[15w40]

My truck also had the ‘clicking seat belt’ problem after shutting down. After much research about this problem I found a TSB that stated some Seat Belt Control Timer Modules were overly sensitive and would activate and release the seat belt locks. The fix was to replace the module.



I cannot remember the TSB number but it applied to trucks built before mine. I was lucky the dealer said my 98. 5 was close enough to be covered under warrantee. It is my understanding that the seat belts will lock up in the event of excessive motion but my belts would activate sitting still.

 

[Ncostello]

Gary KJ6Q - The seat belt lock selonoids lock up when defeated because 12V power applied "unlocks" them. If the electrical system is damaged in a wreck (bye bye battery), D/C wants to make sure the belts will lock up and save your life. Locked is the default mode under "no 12V anywhere" situations. Unplugging them places them in this mode.



How do I know this for sure one may ask? Illflem, how correct you are. There is a very specific test procedure for the latch mechanisms in the Chrysler service manual for Ram trucks... . which the UPS man conveniently dropped off today. I must say I doubt anyone would have the will power to type all that is involved with this safety system in a single post. Chrysler knows (I can tell) that the seatbelt system is EXTREMELY important to fix properly and does a wonderful job of clearly telling whats involved, how it works, and how to troubleshoot and correct.



The system is somewhat complicated since they could not place the normal pendulum mechanism in seat-frame mounted seatbelt systems (quad cab front seats)... cause the seat can be leaned back and cause it not to work. So in come the electronics stuff. The manual tells how to test the system in a "test mode" you put the truck in. Key on-off-on-off 3 times then push in the cigar lighter within 5 seconds believe it or not. Then the selenoids lock and unlock by opening and closing the door. Cool Huh?



Anyway, I cant go into all the fine details but with the manual, finding out the problem should be easy. The Seatbelt Timer Contol Module (STCM), which takes input from the ignition switch, door switches, and airbag control module is suspect after my reading, but the wiring voltage tests could prove otherwise.



The manual will prove its weight in gold soon. I would encourage everyone to try and get hold of one if you dont already have one. Funny thing was, the manual specifically states if this system is not working properly, the batteries will go dead I found out the hard way... although most who read this will never have this problem ever.



PS: FWIW the pendulum has been replaced by and electronic G-Force mechanism. From what I've read I could park my truck on a 45 degree slope to stop all this silly battery drain stuff

 

[illflem]

Just think how long it would have taken to figure out the cig lighter trick without the manual.

As Joe G says, "The factory service manual would be a deal at twice the price. "

Buy your service manuals here

Bet a STCM isn't cheap either.

 

[jeepit]

Where did you get manual from and what is the cost??

 

[Ncostello]

Jeepit, I got it from the 800 phone number in the last few pages of the owners manual. The number shown in my new service manual is 800-890-4038... I think thats the same one in my owners manual. Its some kind of Chrysler owned publishing company. I think the book number is 81-370-9108. Title is 1999 Service Manual - Ram Truck 1500-3500, 2WD, 4WD. They'll ask you exactly what you drive and what year etc. $107. 00 inc. Tax and Shipping. All the answers to all your questions at your fingertips. Its the one your dealer would use.

 

[Ncostello]

The test I performed is supposed to take the Seatbelt Control Timer Module (SCTM) out of the picture and let me know if the ignition switch and door jamb switches work. Basically, the 30 minute time interval before lockup is eliminated.



Doing this test I was able to determine that the selenoids work correctly and the door switches lock and unlock the seat belts. I really dont see any sense in testing all the wiring since the test confirms the components work. Now, since my selenoids do not shut off after 30 minutes (and thus lock the belts... and stop the current draw)... . I'm going to take the easy way out and say my SCTM is faulty... manual says replace as a whole. Dodge Dealer = $87. 50. I tried to see if maybe it should be free cause this compromises the active restraint system and could possibly cause me injury in the event of a collision. They said its only covered under 3/36 unless it was the actual webbing or latch or something non-electronic. So its going to cost me $87 to keep my $168 batteries from dying. I could be worse I suppose.



BTW, test is sit in driver seat and close doors. Push in cigar lighter. Within 5 seconds, turn ign key on-off three times then turn on the fourth time and leave on. Wait a few seconds and the little red guy will come on on the dash signalling the test mode is in progress. Open the door. Slowly pull out each belt to confirm they unlock. Close door. Slowly try to pull out belts. They should not pull out thus confirming they lock up. Turn ign off to end test. Test self cancells in 5 minutes if your too slow.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Ain't computers wunnerful...

 

[LSchick]

Same problem on my 99, took it to the dealer who informed me of the seat belt problem, said mine were working fine , after 2 hours of testing couldn't find a problem. they contacted Chrysler who stated there is a new T,S. B. coming out informing the owners of 99. s to pull the IOD fuse if the truck has to remain idle for 3 days. Has anyone seen this new????? TSB as yet. I now pull this fuse and find I'm still losing voltage ,approx, 12 volts per day. I have also replaced the batteries, My reading on the meter is 1290 when i park. the truck will not start at 1240 volts so even with the fuse pulled i have 5 days of batteries . I have been working on this problem (and others) for 3 weeks. I never had the problem before either.

 

[Ncostello]

I finally got tired of pulling the IOD fuse to keep my energized seat belt retractors from killing my batteries, so I went to Dodge and purchased a new Seat Belt Control Timer Module (SCTM). Chrysler PN P56043003AD for the sum of $92. 75 and one weeks time to get it.



I followed the entire procedure for trouble shooting the seatbelt retractor solenoid system on page 8M-20 thru 22 in the manual. I have all the correct voltages and continuitys I'm supposed to at the plug harness that plugs into the module. And the retractor solenoids read the correct ohms and they do infact work fine. Plus the truck passes the SCTM override test procedure.



After all the right stuff, the new one is also faulty I think. It, like the old one, simply will not "time out" and cut the power to my solenoids. Basically after the truck is shut off and you exit the truck, the power should cut off after approx 30 minutes. It wont. If it was working properly, I should NOT be able to pull the belts out of the seats after 30 minutes (by reaching through a rolled down window... if you open the door, they instantly unlock by design cause they think your getting in the truck to drive somewhere and will want to be able to pull out the belts).



I was able to determine the 45 degree angle part works. If the module is tilted 45 degrees in any direction, it locks the belts thinking the truck is rolling over. I couldn't test the G-force part of it . Its just the ignition off timer part don't work. So I'm hoping Dodge will get me another... even though its an electronic part.

 

[15w40]

Unbelievable!

When mine was replaced in my 98, the original box was silver colored metal. The replacement was smaller and made from black plastic with part number P56043003AD. I remember reading that Dodge uses different timer modules depending on the options in the truck. This may be a long short, but ask the dealer if the box you have is correct for the option group in your truck.

 

[Ncostello]

Will do 15W40,



The part number on the one I took out was the same as the PN on the new one. I do have the ST truck so mine does not have very many options except air, cruise and tilt. They didn't say a word about what options I had.



I'll check with them on that. They found it very hard to believe that the new one was faulty. However, with anything electrical its possible. They ordered me another new one to see if it works. If it does they will swap me. I sure hope it does. I have checked every step in the manual twice... and there is nothing on the truck itself that would be causing the box to not time out. It has to be the box.

 

[Morphious]

I'm experiencing something similar to this except my seatbelts won't unlock half the time and the other time, the solinoid are going on off repeatedly like they can't determine what they are supposed to do. There for a while the seatbelts didn't work at all, I believe my problem lies in the Seatbelt module as well, as they worked fine before I pulled my seats out to install the new sound material and rubber flooring. Mine is a 99 as well.



Morph.

 

[Ncostello]

Yes, I'd bet yours is bad too. Its all very simple really... but I thought Dodge should have come up with a better box than the one they have for such an important job. It should be almost bullet proof since were dealing with seatbelts here. They actually sound like a rattle trap if you shake them a little.



If the solenoids are unplugged you should read somewhere between 50-60 ohms between their two pins on their plugs. Thats a simple check to see if the solenoids are faulty.



Get in your truck, push in the cigar lighter and cycle the key on-off three times, leaving the ignition on for the forth time. Do this within 5 seconds. Then the little seatbelt idiot light should come the dash and stay on. Your now in test mode which bypasses the modules functions. With the doors shut, both belts should be locked up. Open each door and they should unlock. This test checks the wiring, power supply and door switches (switchable grounds). If you've never done this test before, pull the IOD fuse out and plug back in to reset the SCTM module.



PS, the manual says you cant remove the module without tilting the seat assy back. But I can get mine off without doing that. You have to pull the wire loom holders out of their holes to get some wire slack... but thats easier than tilting the seat. Take a phillips bit for a drill and black tape it to the open end of a 1/4" wrench. A screwdriver wont fit and the 90 degree drivers wont work either.



Basically the IOD fuse in the junction block of the dash supplies constant voltage to the box through one wire. The seatbelt fuse supplies key on voltage through another wire. There are two brown ground wires that activate through the door jamb switches. One wire goes to the idiot light. The other two wires go through the harness up to the solenoids. Not much to check really. Either the box works or it dont. It senses G loads, roll angle, and time after which the key was turned off.



Morph, the only other thing I could think of was maybe a fault code was set if the unit was tilted and locked the solenoids up (cut power to them). If the batteries are not unplugged during a removal process, this could happen. Dodge told me maybe my new box didn't work because of a "hidden" fault code being stored. But the idiot light should light up telling me of a code being set. Dodge wasn't sure of that theory, but the manual does say that.

 

[Josparkz]

I am glad you located your gremlin to your seatbelt control box. I hope I don't have one in my 96

After wading thru this thread , I am going to put my $. 02 in.

I think Illflem about had it in a nutshell , a bad battery. Those can be an internal or external short . I dirty battery will discharge right on top there. Your dried up electrolyte crud conducts from one terminal to the other . Also to ground.

Years ago every garage used to have a battery cell tester. You pulled the caps off and put the 2 probes in each adjacent cell , to find shorts/bad cells.

Anyone , I thought I'd post this , cause if you don't know about it . you can go nuts looking for these.

 

[Ncostello]

I appreciate your reply Josparkz, however, both batteries were a month old at the beginning of this problem and Napa has since replaced both of them under warranty for me. They didn't think they were bad but they went ahead and gave me new ones.



Also, I keep my engine as clean as a show vehicle. I guarantee that no crud exists on my battery terminals. My truck will drain any battery that you install in there. I'm almost sure as soon as Dodge tells me my 2nd new module is in, my problems are over.

 

[Ncostello]

2nd new SCTM didn't solve the problem. Dang!! I re-checked each wire to the harness. The grounds are working fine. Power is getting to the unit fine.



However when I turn off the key, the run-acc power wire goes to 1. 5 volts then slowly bleeds off from there. Possibly a dirty or bad ignition switch. But I can pull the fuse to this lead (seat belt fuse) and eliminate that possibility. It does not help make the timer do its job even when I kill the fuse.



After checking again, the solenoids actually in the seats should read between 50-60 Ohms across the plug pins (2). Mine read 45. 5 Ohms each solenoid. Dodge says that could be causing the problem. But the solenoids work fine. They just dont have the exact correct resistance. Maybe they actually need to give 50-60 ohms to the system? The retractor assembly (including solenoids) is probably $$$$$$. Plus I have to remove the upholstery from the seats to get to them. Maybe I could get a couple 10 Ohm resistors to add on to test this theory.



The only other thing I can think of is the SCTM to Airbag Control Module is doing something screwy. But no codes are being set and the dash light never comes on for either seat belt or airbag. That wire provides the ACM with 3 volts. Anything from the SCTM outside that range tells the ACM something is wrong and will activate the idiot light. So I'm assuming its correct cause I never get a light.



To top it all off, I read where 2000's quit using the SCTM module and started using a modified pendulum deal. Any truth to this? Maybe I could just get a front seat out of a 2000 or newer truck. But then without SCTM in place, the ACM will flip out and set codes.



I give up. What are 2003 trucks going for??