Killer Dowel Pin

[Clayboy]

I noted in issue 57 - The Way We Were, it states "The problem (KDP) that has been encountered by owners is predominately with the '94 to '98 12-valve engine. " I have a 91. 5 and was considering doing the prescribed fix, but was wondering if the effort was warrented. I am decent shadetree mechanic, but my truck is very solid - no leaks, good performance, so I am concerned tearing into the front cover may create issues which don't exist. Thoughts? Experience? Thank you.

 

[chipster]

Kdp

FWIW

I have an 01. 5 12 v and had the dreaded "kdp" problem a few years back! Never heard of the problem before then, but I am a believer that the problem exists and would take the "fix" asap.

I happened to be in Van Horn Texas at the time, had to be towed to El Paso and $2500. 00 later I graduated from kdp class. just say'n !

 

[chipster]

Kdp

the above reply should be, that my engine is not an 01. 5 but a 91. 5 just like yours.

thanks.

 

[Clayboy]

Thank you!

 

[Paychk]

Yes I would inspect the KDP, more info here:

https://www.turbodieselregister.com...what-kdp-killer-dowel-pin-what-all-about.html

 

[RedRamAndy]

Definitely kill the pin. Tighten the front timing case bolts too while you are at it. Those have fallen out and act just like a wayward pin. Use the search function here on this forum (upper right area of your screen) and you will find LOTS of good info on both.

 

[Nyoest]

Don't wait!! That pin is heading towards your timing gears right now. Might take years for it to get there... ... .

I waited for a convenient time. I found time when I had to replace the front cover bc the pin fell out.

 

[Bob Beauchaine]

I had done several KDPs with the first fix out there and thought I was safe. I then saw the damage that the case bolts could do - cam broken into three pieces and bent push rods so I pulled the the front case on mine. I found all of the 5 interior case bolts were loose - it was just a matter of time until one of these bolts came out. Four of these bolts can be removed, cleaned, lock tight coated and re-installed. The fifth can be loosened, cleaned and lock tight coated with lock tights weeping product and re-tightened then you are good to go. You will need to bend to fit a wrench as the 5th is behind one of the drive gears. Don't wait - make this project a priority.



Bob

 

[MCharlebois]

i am inquiring about the kdp jig... ... can i get on the list? we have several trucks in this county that need to tab the kdp!!!!!!



thanks marcel

 

[RedRamAndy]

Hello Marcel, Are you talking about the jig to fix the pin from the outside with the drill/bolt method? If so, I wouldn't do it just because of the prior few posts. Those gear case bolts are just as much of a threat. Pull the cover and fix them all if you want to be certain.

 

[EWalshak]

I would suggest anyone with a cummins 12v do the kdp fix. It is not that hard even if you only have mediocre mechanical skills. It is worth it to take off the cover vs. the fix that uses the jig and drill bit. The drill bit method does not resolve the issues with the case bolts doing damage to the motor when they fall out. I have two CTD's and have completed the kdp fix on both of them. As well as helping a friend fix his. On both motors as well as my friends the case bolts were mostly all loose or barely finger tight.

 

[JLEONARD]

I did mine via the drill jig method. That was before all the talk about loose bolts. I only ran mine for 200K miles. Maybe that wasn't enough to rattle them loose.

If I were to do the fix today I would remove the cover and stake the pin in place (and tighten the bolts).

Staking ir free, and a much better method IMHO. That opinion is based on many years in manufacturing where staking out performs things like a bolted tab.

 

[Clayboy]

O. K. , I did the KDP a few weeks ago, here is what I learned. The good news is when I got everything pulled apart and looked at the pin - used a mirror (recommend anyone about to do this get one beforehand unless your pulling your radiators and coolers). It was in there good, all the other bolts tighter than a drum. Still removed the bolts, put some Loc-tite on them and put them back. Of course I did the KDP with the kit I got from Geno's. For us 1st Gen'rs, keep in mind the instructions you get are really geared towards 2nd Gen trucks. So in my case, I did not have to worry about the engine speed sensor. I am a literal person, so had I not checked my FSM first, I probably would be wondering what happened to mine. Speaking of FSM, if you can get your hands on one, I like the instructions for removing the gear cover in it vice what came with the kit. The kit instructions do not make it clear about the plastic guide that comes with the seal should be left in place and "automatically" pops out to be removed. I told you I am a literal person. Vice using the Permatex that came with the kit, I bought a new Felpro gasket - it comes with a seal also, in case you manage to dork your kit seal like I almost did.

Recommend you pull the upper radiator hose to give you more room - I was doing all my radiator and heater hoses at the same time anyway. With the upper radiator hose out of the way, it makes a big difference. Since I was on a roll, I decided to replace what appeared to be the original water pump. Don't forget, weep hole go down.

Get the Barring Tool from Geno's, it is so much easier than crawling under your truck, removing a transmission cover, jamming a screwdriver in the gears.

Yes, removing the fan is a pain, take your time. One of the many times I was thankful I have small dextrous hands. If you have big hands, you better have some good tools. Harmonic balancer - ditto. If you have a low profile impact wrench, it will come in handy. I did not, and there was not enough room to us my battery powered IR impact wrench. I used the barring tool and a cheater to get the bolts out without much drama.

I did not cut out a piece of cardboard to cover the radiator with. You would definitely want to do this if you have a thin finned aluminum radiator, but I was not too concerned about what would happened if the fan dinged it - I had enough room. Did I mention my small dextrous hands?

One thing I would recommend with cardboard is use a piece to hold all the bolts in the same placement as your cover. You have some long bolts which go in specific places - a short bolt will go in a long hole, so it is easy to get frustrated if you throw all your bolts in a pile.

I took plenty of pictures - thank God for digital photography, otherwise I am sure I would put something back together incorrectly.

Knowing what I do now, would I have done it. Yes, it is like insurance, just one of those things you have to do because you just never know. Even though everything looked good, I still got to spend some quality time with my truck and felt good about being able to take a piece of machinery from a running, to none running, and back to running state.

 

[RSchwarzli]

Glad to hear you got it all done! Oo.

You are correct. The instructions do leave a little bit to be desired.

 

[Bob Beauchaine]

I did the inside case bolts after I used the jig-drill method due to the fact that I did not know about them being a problem. I had to remove the fan and fan offset as a unit. It seems as if with the Horton fan coupled with the reverse threads on the fan it gets to a point where it's darn near impossible to take the fan off the drive unit. I usually turn my fan on only when I use my A/C.



I too pulled my radiator to replace hoses and gain more room to work. If I remember correctly the front drive seal I got from Cummins had good installation instructions at least it was not a problem to install and has not leaked. My internal case bolts needed to be addressed. It has been over 60,000 miles and I do beleive all is still well.



Bob

 

[RSchwarzli]

I thought that was just my Horton! I put it on the crew for measuring purposes and tried to get it back off! Was dang near impossible!!

 

[JHylton]

Kdp

I own a 91. 5 with 170,000 miles... . just bought an '06 Big Horn Edition 2500 with only 52,000 miles. Now that I have a new spare, I can take my time and do the KDP project. If I had been thinking (hard to do sometimes), I just had the radiator, water pump, and thermostat replaced last month... . and I could have done or had the shop do the KDP at the same time. Would have been a whole lot of room to work with all the cooling system out of the way. BTW, I am original owner, bought this rig in June of 1991 in New Braunfels, TX... it still has all the original water and heater hoses. They are, remarkably, still in good shape. I don't know how long they will last, anyone have any ideas?

 

[RedRamAndy]

Hello JHylton, I'd replace the hoses and just shelve the originals. No idea on how long the pump will hold. I don't think they are that expensive if you just wanted to replace and be sure. I don't know if I would though since this is now a 'spare' truck. When hoses blow, it's a complete cooling system failure. Most often when water pumps go, they start to weep out of the drip hole. You can then top-off coolant and run for quite a while to get where you're going. I've never had one really leak down fast.

Take a look at Issue 70, pg 17 for some pointers on where a few of the gear case bolts hide. They're sneaky.

 

[JHylton]

Hi RedRamAndy - I did change the pump and the thermostat as well when I put the new radiator in. My pump was leaking out the drip hole... Think I will go ahead and change all the hoses when I do the KDP... I see you have a 66 Charger and 72 Duster... . I own a 68 GTX for one of my toys !

 

[roachcoach]

I just tabbed my KDP a few days ago when I was replacing my front cover seal and gasket. Mine looked fine, I went ahead and fixed it anyway.