Kore control arms?

[Big P]

Does anybody know if the steel control arms that Kore offers are the same length as stock?

 

[kparker]

The 2nd gen versions I have are stock length, and I believe the 3rd gen ones are as well.

 

[DWeiler]

Anyone know what a ballpark price for the second genners are,Looking at the Kore site under their top notch "race system"they are silver(billet i think),but under the second genner "chase"system"they are black steel,are they different quality,if so how much. For the billet ones i heard a while back they ran about $2000 grand,too much $$$ for me,but if the black steel one are a "budget type" or another option to a person who doesn't need the high end billet ones,maybe there are for me,depends how much. I am looking at getting a Kore recon(pace)system in the summer and just want to find out all the costs and options that will work for me,might be able to convince myself that i casn justify the control arms as well.

 

[Tacsavage]

I just priced them for my 3rd gen the other day. About $2000 for the new billet ones, and I think it was $750 for the standard control arms, I was told the standard were designed for up to 2. 5" lift and 3. 5" for the billet when I called them. Hope this helps. Tac

 

[HeloMech74]

I think the Billet ones are also clearanced to provide more room for the tires and to prevent tire rub on the control arm. I am trying to find a control arm built like that (with the clearancing) but minus the price.

 

[rbattelle]

I've been thinking a bit lately about the Kore aluminum arms and the stockers. I think a pair of nice arms could be made with very simple tools from some bar stock and spherical rod ends you can buy almost anywhere.



I'm even considering designing a pair for myself out of nodular iron (or maybe cast - more dangerous). I'd use a very simple solid rectangular or square section, cut to size, with spherical rod ends. It would be very inexpensive, and probably stronger than Kore's offering. Cheap, too.



On edit - a 1. 5" x 3" x 12" solid nodular iron bar from McMaster runs only $54. Times 4 gives you just over $200. Such a bar would be immensely stronger than the stockers.



-Ryan

 

[kbond]

I've been thinking a bit lately about the Kore aluminum arms and the stockers. I think a pair of nice arms could be made with very simple tools from some bar stock and spherical rod ends you can buy almost anywhere.



I'm even considering designing a pair for myself out of nodular iron (or maybe cast - more dangerous). I'd use a very simple solid rectangular or square section, cut to size, with spherical rod ends. It would be very inexpensive, and probably stronger than Kore's offering. Cheap, too.



On edit - a 1. 5" x 3" x 12" solid nodular iron bar from McMaster runs only $54. Times 4 gives you just over $200. Such a bar would be immensely stronger than the stockers.



-Ryan

I gotta agree with you here. 2000 dollars for control arms is behond rip off. I can see extra for the billet cost etc. . but come on already. I made some control arms for a Grand Cherokee similar to the style you describe. Also I would imagine there is a slight difference in length to make up for the caster loss if lifting over 2 inches. Mostly to keep folks out of the dreaded Death wobble.

 

[rbattelle]

34,800 lb-rated (radial load) HD spherical rod ends with 1-14 male threads and a grease fitting run $55 each at McMaster.



Seems to me you could build your own for around $500 and some time and effort. Piece of cake. And iron is a lot stronger than aluminum (and heavier!).



On edit:

Just thought of something. Those spherical rod ends at McMaster have no damping in them... might make for a very noisy and/or harsh ride over bumps.



-Ryan

 

[p-Bar]

I gotta agree with you here. 2000 dollars for control arms is behond rip off. I can see extra for the billet cost etc. . but come on already. I made some control arms for a Grand Cherokee similar to the style you describe. Also I would imagine there is a slight difference in length to make up for the caster loss if lifting over 2 inches. Mostly to keep folks out of the dreaded Death wobble.

Ford paid 4K apiece for the ones on the GT40

 

[kbond]

building in some type of adjustablility would be sweet to tune out wobble. I had a hell of a time fixing that on my Grand Cherokee. Caster is super sensitive on some rigs. I've heard it is fairly inherent to coil-over 4 link setups.

 

[evldsl]

Does anybody know if the steel control arms that Kore offers are the same length as stock?

Check out the latest issue of Diesel mag and you will see Greg's truck on the front cover, then look inside and you will see the arms. I understand that they come preset but are adjustable.

 

[Spooled-up]

rbattelle,

How much do you think notching out the arms for tire clearance would weaken them? It'd be nice to have a cheaper alternative, but not at the expense of strength and adjustability. Judging from the things you modify, I'm confident that you can build them!



It'd be really nice if they were adjustable as when I had my KORE Pace system on, it was at the very limit of adjustability on the arms.



As expensive as they are, there's some comfort in knowing that they have been tested, abused and proven by the desert crew.

 

[rbattelle]

rbattelle,

How much do you think notching out the arms for tire clearance would weaken them?

Part of the point to using iron would be obviating the need for notching them. A solid iron bar 1/2" x 3" (for example) would be at least as strong as the aluminum offerings from Kore, and just as thin as the middle section of the Kore pieces.



I'm not a big fan of the notches in the Kore arms - I think they represent an inelegant (albeit quite functional) design necessary because of the use of aluminum over something stronger. Don't get me wrong - they get the job done and look really cool! But from a design standpoint, you could make a much simpler and less wasteful part that's at least as strong if you used steel (or iron) without any notching (as they did with their cheaper steel offering).

As expensive as they are, there's some comfort in knowing that they have been tested, abused and proven by the desert crew.

That's an interesting point. Building your own requires a certain amount of faith in your own design. But my philosophy is to build things strong enough to lift the Titanic off the ocean floor so I don't need to worry about them breaking. Hence my choice of solid nodular iron - hard to imagine anything stronger (I don't think steel would be any stronger in compression). Plus I love saying "nodular iron".



I figured out the solution to the solid spherical rod ends being too stiff and offering a harsh ride - just buy some urethane bushings for them. The McMaster units I talked about earlier have a 1" bore, so you'd need a bushing for the stock bolt anyway (stock bolt is much smaller than 1" diameter).



I'm just thinking out loud here. I've got to get myself an industrial bandsaw before I could actually make anything.



-Ryan

 

[p-Bar]

Ryan,

We always love to listen to you , be sure you buy American on that saw , their always seems to be something lacking on that Taiwan stuff.

 

[JOblenes]

Control Arms

The easiest way to do these is to buy some heavy wall DOM (drawn over mandral) tubing that has an ID that is almost the perfect tap drill diameter to your spherical bearing rod ends, then with a power hacksaw, a common hand drill (drill press or lathe ideally) and the right tap and these are easy to make. You can even do right and left hand threads to make then easily adjustable using a pipe wrench (or get fancy and mill flats). The DOM tubing is work hardened through the drawing process and is quite stong, go with really thick stuff and the arms will be bomb proof, sort of like this, http://bulletproofsteering.com/tubingspecs.html . Another trick I heard is you can take the lug nuts from a big rig and pound them into the ends of an appropriate sized tube, two quick welds around the circumference and you are good to go, apparently the lug nut thread is a common spherical rod end size. I had designed a kit for my old 1500 based on the DOM tubing above.



Jonathan

 

[rbattelle]

The easiest way to do these is to buy some heavy wall DOM (drawn over mandral) tubing that has an ID that is almost the perfect tap drill diameter to your spherical bearing rod ends, then with a power hacksaw, a common hand drill (drill press or lathe ideally) and the right tap and these are easy to make. You can even do right and left hand threads to make then easily adjustable using a pipe wrench (or get fancy and mill flats). The DOM tubing is work hardened through the drawing process and is quite stong, go with really thick stuff and the arms will be bomb proof, sort of like this, http://bulletproofsteering.com/tubingspecs.html . Another trick I heard is you can take the lug nuts from a big rig and pound them into the ends of an appropriate sized tube, two quick welds around the circumference and you are good to go, apparently the lug nut thread is a common spherical rod end size. I had designed a kit for my old 1500 based on the DOM tubing above.



Jonathan

Another great (and simple) idea. But you lose points for not saying "nodular iron". :-laf



p-bar - not sure whether you mean people like to listen to me because I'm a complete quack, but I'll take it as a compliment anyway. And I'm trying to find an old DoAll or Grob saw with 16"-20" throat. But my price range is low (<<$1000), which means I want one that needs restoration... proving very hard to find.



-Ryan

 

[NVR FNSH]

And how much is that solid "nodular iron" bar going to weigh? Even with as much of a pig as our trucks are, adding unnecessary unsprung weight is a bad idea.



The KORE billet arms are probably cheaper than a weldment of similar design - 'notched' to allow full steering lock. The welded version may be lighter, and just as strong, but it probably came down to a production cost issue.



Brian

 

[JOblenes]

Another great (and simple) idea. But you lose points for not saying "nodular iron". :-laf

yeah, I get like that sometimes too, LOL "... but I really want to use this". I haven't had occassion to work with nodular iron, but my immediate ignorant question would be how is it for impact toughness? If you were to drop the front end over a rock while wheeling is the nodular iron going to bend in a ductile fashion like most steels (in which case your alignment will be off but the truck generally still driveable), or will the nodular iron suffer a brittle fracture (snap in two, in which case you are not driving anywhere). Just a thought.



Jonathan

 

[HLewallen]

Have you guys mentioned or know about the arms offered by solid steel (the guys making the second-gen DSS thing)? They are only lowers, but they are tubular adjustable like you guys are describing. I was thinking about using them to get my truck into spec for caster.

http://www.solidsteel.biz/index.htm

 

[rbattelle]

And how much is that solid "nodular iron" bar going to weigh?

A LOT! But as someone else elegantly put it in another thread, everything I build costs the same or a little more than the retail offering and weighs at least 4x as much. :-laf



Jonathan - I picked nodular iron over cast iron specifically because it's ductile like steel and it's strength rivals steel. It won't snap like cast iron would - it'll bend. But let's be honest - the frame would twist into a pretzel before a solid iron control arm would give way.



-Ryan