Kore install pics.......

[Yo Hoot]

Hey Hoot, I assume that is the "Leveling Kit" from Kore? Not the Chase or Race version? And how tall does it make your truck to the top of the roof? Thanks for all the pics. Brad

Yes it's the leveling kit... springs, bumpstops and 5100 shocks. I bought the rear shocks as an addon. The leveling kit doesn't come with rears.



I never measured it. It raises the front just the right amount so as not to have the front higher than the rear.



Ol'TrailDog,



Your questions are good. I'm not in the position to answer them from a professional point of view. What I can say is we are dealing with a straight axle. The geometries most suseptable is the front driveshaft angle, steering and tracbar linkages.



I don't see how it could effect anything in the axles itself since the axle pretty much stands on it's own. Kore stands behind the fact that it will not create issues over and above stock and they even state that it should improve durability.



It's not anything crazy... . only 2-3 engineered inches of lift. The geometrical changes aren't anywhere out of the intended design range. I think it's about the best out there.

 

[Bertram65]

I would think the DW would be just as likely with this kit as with spacers, it may have better shocks and different spring rates but it is still lifting the front end 2" to 3", same as the spacers which is what seems to cause the majority of the DW cases. Is there anything else the kit provides or instructions of what to change to prevent DW?

 

[Greg Boardman-RIP]

Thanks Greg for the reply. The part about the KORE suspension absorbing destructive energy is good. However, let me play devil's advocate here.







If the truck is being lifted the geometry of, for instance the driveline, is being changed unless the kit contains something to lower the center bearing carriage. In addition, the angle to the pumpkin will be different regardless if the trucks attitude is maintained. This would also apply to control arms and etc.



#ad

The front axle moves up and down in an arc. It just sits 2 inches higher than stock. Same geometry as stock just higher in the arc. The axle does move up and down stock right? So what they did, just move it further in the stroke and replace a crappy shock with a good one.

As for the angle of the pumpkin, that is the great thing about the 5 link chrysler setup. It keeps and retains all driveline angles in the full stroke of the suspension. In suspension terms it is known as "Bump" ( against the bumpstops) and "Droop"( full extension). As the suspension hits the bumpstops, it moves forward and keeps the driveline angle the same. As it droops, it can only go so far, limited by the track bar. The difference here from "Disco" 5" lifts is that Kore keep the same stock suspension geometries that the truck came with. No Drop down brackets, no extended trackbar, limiting bumpstops, and no extended control arms. That is how the stock ride is retained on the hwy and the vast improvements off road. This is not your generic "lift kit" but a truly revelational group of advanced suspension components engineered to work together in the most extreme conditions. KORE!!!



Enjoy,

Greg

 

[Yo Hoot]

I would think the DW would be just as likely with this kit as with spacers, it may have better shocks and different spring rates but it is still lifting the front end 2" to 3", same as the spacers which is what seems to cause the majority of the DW cases. Is there anything else the kit provides or instructions of what to change to prevent DW?

Simply put, you lose some caster angle which can de-stabilize your front end. I restored caster and all has been well since originally using the spacers and now the Kore setup.

 

[Bertram65]

Simply put, you lose some caster angle which can de-stabilize your front end. I restored caster and all has been well since originally using the spacers and now the Kore setup.

What is involved in restoring the caster?

Is there anything with the kit that deals with the axle being shifted to one side slightly as a result of the track bar not being extended? Is there a optional extension?

 

[Yo Hoot]

What is involved in restoring the caster?

Is there anything with the kit that deals with the axle being shifted to one side slightly as a result of the track bar not being extended? Is there a optional extension?

I adjusted the caster myself by crawling under the truck with two wrenches. There are eccentric adjusting bolts in front on the bottom control arms. Mark the original location so you know where you started from.



I don't feel there is enough side shift in the axle to warrant a longer track bar. No one makes an adjustable bar as it is. No one would notice the slight shift except our own anal selves.

 

[jrobinson2]

Here are a few pictures of the caster adjusting bolts on a 2nd gen, turn the bolts to push the bottom of the axle forward to increase caster.

 

[kentkroeker]

Gents,



First, I would like to wish everyone a happy and prosperous New Year.



Traildog makes a good point.



The added wear and tear issue is a tough one - it's kind of like making engine modifications that increase power and (theoretically) efficiency. Your motor might be able to get 25 mpg, but since it now makes 500 hp. you're flat-footed all the time. You're doing long burn-outs that anger your neighbors and embarrass your wife. You're drag racing the guy in the new Vette - and embarrassing him.



And you're wondering why you're only getting 8 mpg.



Same thing with our suspension. I can't tell you how many times I've heard a customer say, "Now that I've got your suspension, I find myself looking for rocks, bumps, dips and jumps to hit. " Naturally this tendency increases wear and tear on components; but it's a result of psychology, not physics. If driving technique remained the same, I would imagine ball joints, u-joints, bushings and tires would last much longer with KORE suspension.



We modify our trucks to make them stronger, faster, more reliable, and more capable. Our driving skills evolve as the performance envelope expands. When we discover new capabilities, we push harder and harder, faster and faster. In the process we break stuff and wear it out. We can't help it; that's just how we are.



It's the price we pay for being Americans. We're fierce and gnarly. We need big trucks, big horsepower and a lot of wheel-travel. I think if we were "dainty," we would snivel a lot about small details and/or "the human condition" -- instead of smoking the tires and worrying about the consequences later.



I mean, we're not French, are we?



I don't mean to offend any French people who may read this. If you're French, you can't help it. You may be able to comprehend Sartre, but you'll never understand the joy of twin-turbos, a good, tire-wasting burn-out, or 5 feet of air - for no reason other than, "it seemed appropriate at the time... Officer... "



... That being said, I give full diplomatic immunity to any Canadians and I don't encourage breaking the law - unless you're absolutely certain you can get away with it...









Geometry.



The great thing about your 5-link is that caster angle remains very constant as the axle moves, so it's usually not the addition of longer coils that causes DW.



It has been our experience that Death Wobble can be caused by six factors: poor shock damping, blown steering stabilizers, worn track bar bushings, worn control arm bushings, improper tires, and not enough positive caster. Sometimes it's just one of these things, other times it's a combination.



Here's what you can do to attack Death Wobble.



Run E rated tires.



Make sure your shocks are good and your steering stabilizer is functioning.



Make sure all your bushings are tight.



Play with caster and toe until tire wear, contact-patch and tracking all work well. Following formal alignment numbers hasn't really worked for us - either on stock or modified trucks. I've seen new Rams that DW all the way home from the dealer. Being within OE spec doesn't mean your truck will drive properly, exhibit even tire wear, or be DW free - every truck is just too different. The bottom line is that the alignment "numbers" that may work best for your truck may actually be out of OE spec, regardless of the chassis mods you've made.



Lateral shift of the axle due to the track bar.



Yes, with KORE suspension, your front axle will shift slightly to the driver's side. How much depends on the vehicle. Sometimes our coils actually "center" the axle; sometimes they move it . 5 of an inch. No, it's not an issue. When you hit your first bump it will move right back through the OE position, and when you're bottomed-out it will be shifted to the passenger's side. Suspension is dynamic. This movement is normal and doesn't hurt anything. I've written a lot about this in other posts.



KORE will be introducing some new products and making some exciting changes for 2005. I'll do my best to keep the TDR updated as much as possible!



Best Regards,



Kent Kroeker

KORE

 

[Yo Hoot]

Good stuff! Thanks Kent.

 

[Ol'TrailDog]

Thanks Greg, Kent, and Yo Hoot for the good info. I'm more convinced than ever. I'll print out a copy for my naysaying friends (I already printed out the long T-Rex post and the Baja race threads but they weren't even interested because of the PSD experience).





after I take a black marker and cross out the redneck, pimp, and AH comments, of course :-laf

 

[Yo Hoot]

The 5100 shocks feel real good too.



Some people were complaining about creaking and knocking sounds with the spacer lifts. I was getting them too with the Revtek kit. All gone now. Love this suspension.



The Kore site is a little tricky. Kent said he's working on it. He is great at customer service/questions.



Basically there are four kits with the cheapest being the leveling kit.

All of the kits for the diesel use the same springs. As you go up in price he adds even better shocks, rear leaf packs and so on.



Don't go by my pricing below... It's the way I interpreted it. Could be mistaken.



Lift is in the 2-3" range on average for all kits. These are not billed as "Lift Kits". They are performance suspension systems.



Leveling

Springs, two bumpstops and two front 5100 shocks

About $500



Pace

Springs, two bump stops, four 5100 Bilsteins, rear leaf packs

About $1000



Chase

Same as Pace but 7100 Series Bilstein remote-reservoir race shocks with the custom billet shock towers. Shocks have spherical bearing mounts.

About $2500



Race

Ultimate...

Same as above but with 2. 5” Fox specially-designed remote-reservoir race shocks valved for Dodge trucks. Shocks have spherical bearing mounts.

About $3500 (The shocks alone are $500 each)

 

[Loaded 45]

Gents,



I mean, we're not French, are we?



I don't mean to offend any French people who may read this. If you're French, you can't help it. You may be able to comprehend Sartre, but you'll never understand the joy of twin-turbos, a good, tire-wasting burn-out, or 5 feet of air - for no reason other than, "it seemed appropriate at the time... Officer... "



... That being said, I give full diplomatic immunity to any Canadians and I don't encourage breaking the law - unless you're absolutely certain you can get away with it.



Hey Kent nice kit & information on Death Wobble. I dont know whats up with the French & Canadian comment or if im taking it wrong but - UNDERSTAND THIS. - Not all Canadians are French or dainty - Us WESTERN CANADIANS have no say on how Canada is ran or who we support - We enjoy a good scrap out here or a good oldfashion truck thrashin! Just like you.

So do us western Canadians a favour dont group us with the snivelin East. :-{}

 

[NickSullivan]

You'r allright Loaded 45!



I have one more question before I buy the Kore system. If I add a winch and winch bumper how will this effect the ride height of the front end? Keep in mind I have 35" BFG Mud Terrains with no lift currently and have no rubbing. I would eventually like to add some aftermarket wheels



Thanks

 

[Yo Hoot]

I would certainly handle it better than the stock coils and shocks.

 

[Kry226]

If I add a winch and winch bumper how will this effect the ride height of the front end? Keep in mind I have 35" BFG Mud Terrains with no lift currently and have no rubbing. I would eventually like to add some aftermarket wheels



Thanks

Actually, I think Kent has some higher rated springs. I could swear when he and I talked, when I ordered my coils, I was asked if I had a bumper or snow plow so that they could make sure I was sent the right coils. If you order, just tell them what your plans are and I'm pretty sure he can accommodate.

 

[akshadow]

As I understand it you should tell them about your plans and they would have a different strength of spring

 

[Fred Swanson]

Yes, Kent has higher rate springs for heavier front ends. I have a winch bumper and Warn 12K winch, and my front didn't drop very much at all, if any. The ride is still superb, and very well balanced front to rear.

 

[kentkroeker]

Loaded 45,



I know that Canadians aren't dainty - even the gents in Quebec, who happen to speak French. Canadians, in general, are a tough, gnarly breed. They share with Americans a similar "frontier" history - risk and survival in adverse conditions. "The Frozen North" isn't a friendly environment to call home unless you're tough and capable. That's why, during my jesting in that other post, I gave all Canadians, "diplomatic immunity" from my comments about the French - who are known worldwide for being a "dainty" group of capitulating snivelers.



Believe it or not, there are many Americans who think that Canadians are "French" and Argentinians are "Spanish. "



I was trying to make it clear that Canadians were not included in my commentary about the French National Character.



Perhaps I should have been more clear.



Thanks for mentioning the ambiguity in my post because you may actually be saving me from grave personal harm. The image attached is a picture of Scotty of "Scotty Air Systems" strapping into my race truck for a test drive. We were testing his intake system - which we found to be superb and to produce more horsepower with lower EGT's than anything else on the market.



If he thought, even for a second that I had been insulting Canadians, he could tear off my arm and use it as a tool to kill me. He weighs 325 lbs. and is a champion in International Strong Man competitions - you know, the guys who pull 747's down a runway while juggling boulders. Because he has the combined strength of approximately 430. 8 Frenchmen, he can throw a four-door Peugeot through the window of any cafe in Paris.



Scotty is Canadian.



And I don't want to make him angry.



My rantings about the French originate from my personal philosophy. When confronted with important decisions I often ask myself, "Well, what would a French person do at this point?" I determine what that is; then I simply do the exact opposite.



It's typically French to get your butt kicked, let the guys who kick your butt take your land and your women, then be content to quietly enjoy your cheese and wine.



It's typically American to kick butt and take names later. I think, however vague it may have been, that this was the entire point of the post to which you refer.



500 horsepower is good.



Doing 100 mph. down a dirt road is good.



Launching a 9000 lb. truck in the air is good.



Why it's good, the French will never know.



But Americans and Canadians know.







Kent Kroeker

 

[Loaded 45]

Ah he looks average sized to me :-laf

Have a great day - Kent!

 

[Task125]

do rear leaf pacs add any height to rear?