Kore Vs. Kelderman Ride?

[CIverson]

Can anyone compare the ride between the Kore and Kelderman systems?



I have Kelderman bags up front right now w/ a skyjacker front box kit, and 2" block in the rear. I'm running the front low to keep the truck level.



I was going to buy the kelderman rear kit to finish the truck off, but a buddy of mine just built an '05 ram for a customer w/ a 5" kit and it's just too high. I got rid of my last truck because I lifted it too much, and I wasn't going to lift this one when I bought it, so I want to go a different route w/ the suspension instead of going to the 5" kelderman kit.



So I'm looking at the kore chase system, the only thing holding me back right now from buying is I'm worried it will ride too rough compared to what I have now, as I like the improvemed ride from stock to the kelderman.



so, back to the origional question, has anyone riddin in a kore AND a kelderman equipped truck, that cares to compare?

 

[Tim]

I haven't ridden in either, but I'll just say this one thing.



Air ride suspensions don't work that well on pickup trucks in my opinion. If you're running the front, "low," you're jacking up your caster. Your alignment can only be had at one ride height with the air ride, and if it doesn't maintain that ride height exactly, your alignment is messed up.



This is why I don't much care for these systems.



KORE should and is advertised to ride better than stock. The Bilsteins alone a huge improvement over the garbage any OEM would use for shocks. I dunno what you drove before you had your new Dodge but every truck I've ever had rode like a truck. If my new one rides like a caddy, so be it, but if it doesn't, it's a truck, and it doesn't need to ride like a caddy.



It's your truck and you can do whatever you want with it, but that air ride stuff is for show trucks. They roll off the trailer, jack them up real high for the show, then lower them to get back down into them and put them back on the trailer. That's about the usefulness of that air ride in my opinion.

 

[CIverson]

I haven't ridden in either, but I'll just say this one thing.



Air ride suspensions don't work that well on pickup trucks in my opinion. If you're running the front, "low," you're jacking up your caster. Your alignment can only be had at one ride height with the air ride, and if it doesn't maintain that ride height exactly, your alignment is messed up.



This is why I don't much care for these systems.



KORE should and is advertised to ride better than stock. The Bilsteins alone a huge improvement over the garbage any OEM would use for shocks. I dunno what you drove before you had your new Dodge but every truck I've ever had rode like a truck. If my new one rides like a caddy, so be it, but if it doesn't, it's a truck, and it doesn't need to ride like a caddy.



It's your truck and you can do whatever you want with it, but that air ride stuff is for show trucks. They roll off the trailer, jack them up real high for the show, then lower them to get back down into them and put them back on the trailer. That's about the usefulness of that air ride in my opinion.

I'm running the bags at 3. 5" of lift, where they were designed for 5". I had the truck aligned at 3. 5" where I'm running it, so that is not messed up.

 

[SRadke]

Airbags carry weight just like springs. You can set a height, leave it there, align it there, and the geometry will be every bit as good as the best spring systems. Should you deicde to let all the air out and drive or pump it up to max travel and drive then yes, the geometry will be comprimised. Believe it or not everyone with air ride didn't do it for show, and no, it doesn't ride "like a caddy". Rides like a stock truck with 3. 5" of suspension travel instead of 2". You'd be amazed what that 1. 5" diffrence does for ride quality over the big humps.



-Scott

 

[Tim]

A factory stock truck only has 2" of suspension travel? I find that hard to believe. Kroker's back would be killing him if he desert raced a vehicle with 2" of suspenion travel, progressive rate or not, that would hurt.

 

[SRadke]

Crawl under the front of a factory third gen and look at the distance between the bump stops and axle. You may be surprised.



-Scott

 

[Tim]

Crawl under the front of a factory third gen and look at the distance between the bump stops and axle. You may be surprised.



-Scott

Travel isn't measured from the axle to the bumpstop buddy. Did you forget about extension travel or something?



Nearly all good suspensions are set for some up travel, and more down travel.



Regardless, you're comparing apples to oranges anyway. Stock truck to air ride + lift.



Compare air ride with no lift to stock or Kore to 3" air ride and I think you'll be surprised.

 

[SRadke]

Sure there is exrension travel to be added in also, I'm talking compression. 2" doesn't do the job. Why does the KORE system raise the truck? Not because they want it higher, but because they need more room under there. A stock height truck simply doesn't have enough room for travel, airbags or otherwise you don't get good ride without travel.



Compare KORE's 3" lift to a 3" air bag lift? I'm afraid I can't do that. I've never ridden in either. I suspect the Kore kit would have more travel because he doesn't have a bumpstop in the airbag to limit travel. That allows for more room. I could be wrong. I would guess the KORE system would preform better, however both would be a leap above a stock truck.



-Scott

 

[Cooker]

A factory stock truck only has 2" of suspension travel? I find that hard to believe. Kroker's back would be killing him if he desert raced a vehicle with 2" of suspenion travel, progressive rate or not, that would hurt.

Was the suspension stock too on his Baja 100 run? I guess I just assumed it was a KORE suspension on an otherwise stock truck?

 

[Tim]

Was the suspension stock too on his Baja 100 run? I guess I just assumed it was a KORE suspension on an otherwise stock truck?

It is, but if these trucks truely lacked travel, there's no way he would have made it. 3" of lift doesn't create enough room to add a foot of up travel if stock really only allows 2" of compression.

 

[Greg Boardman-RIP]

Well,

Someone finally aske a question I can answer. The Kore race truck used a full custom KORE Fox system designed for racing. Our trucks come from the factory with about six inches of travel. Kore adds height to accomodate the 10" travel coils. This allows them to utilize the full stroke of the stock suspension geometries. The "Droop" travel on a stock truck is about 4 inches. The droop on a Kore truck is about 7 inches. Droop travel is what gives us a plush, cushie, and smooth ride in the rough. When the wheel droops out, you have a full 10 inches until you hit the bumpstop. That being the case, The shock has an enormous amount of room to "travel" and slow down the axle. A Kore shock is designed to absorb as much energy as possible. Not allowing it to be distirbuted through the chassis is what give you the custom ride. Does it feel like a Big Fat Caddy? Only at 80 through the whoops!!!



Greg

 

[Pilotman]

I guess thats why most of the industrial trucks out there use air ride for a rough ride and more problems?... ... It doesnt work? You need to do a little more research there. I have been in both the Kore and the Kelderman. The air ride was so much better there was no comparing the two. The other issue you need to research more before posting is the alignment issue. A 4 link system doesnt have alignmnet issues due to height changes. Geeeezzzzz!

 

[Hohn]

Was this a KORE RACE setup? Comparing their lowest levelling kit to an air ride is ridiculous. You need the big Foxes or Bilsteins for comparison.



jlh

 

[Greg Boardman-RIP]

There is nothing to compare. It is like apples and oranges. Kore offers off road performance and Keldermans offer big lifts and a smooth hwy ride and towing. That is not to say the the Kore stuff doesn't help with ride or towing. Just that the Kelderman is a different kind of beast. I don't think anyone can really say one is better than the other. They are simply different. That is what makes us Americans. Freedom to do as we please and have a choice.



Greg

 

[CIverson]

Well I started this post so I guess I should chime in.



I had the kelderman in front only. I was going to do the rear also, but I decided that 5" of lift was too much for a DD. I went and got the KORE chase setup.



The ride is stiffer, but that is to be expected. It is alot better than the stock setup though.



I guess I just decided simple is better.



I will say that I expected the HD coils for those with winches and winch bumpers up front to hold up more weight than they do. When I put my plow on the truck sags ALOT. I'm also a bit skeptical that I have the HD springs, as mine just say KORE diesel on them and nothing about being the HD version, although greg told me that those are the HD ones for those with heavy bumpers.



I think the KORE stuff is overhyped a little, but I do like the setup I have minus the sagging in the front w/ the plow on.



As to the comment that your front end specs won't change with a 4 link: You need to go back and study a 4 link a little better before you go around making comments like that.



First, the amount of caster change as the 4 link cycles up and down is a matter of how the links are positioned and the lenght of each arm. The more equal in lenght and the more parallell the less change. The setup on these trucks does change as the suspension cycles.



Second, being a 4 link w/ a trackbar, as the suspension cycles your front axle moves to the left or right in an arc, which affects the tracking somewhat.



Third, the way the steering is setup (Inverted Y design) the toe in/out changes as the suspension cycles.

 

[scotty1]

There is nothing to compare. It is like apples and oranges. Kore offers off road performance and Keldermans offer big lifts and a smooth hwy ride and towing. That is not to say the the Kore stuff doesn't help with ride or towing. Just that the Kelderman is a different kind of beast. I don't think anyone can really say one is better than the other. They are simply different. That is what makes us Americans. Freedom to do as we please and have a choice.



Greg

The Kore Products work very well for towing. Another added bonus.

Kent has me testing what we feel will be a good towing combination of parts.

So far so good. One thing we did agree on is that we need rear air bags to level off the truck when towing. When you put the bigger coils in the front and raise it up... the truck is now level when empty. Put a trailer on with a 5th wheel pin weight of 3500-4000 pounds :--) and the back end will squat down and then the oncoming traffic gets bent out of shape because of the headlights blinding them. Using air bags helps me stay away from banging on the overloads all the time too. I have this feeling Kent is going to be contacting me about the overloads now. :-laf



Has there been anyone racing in Baja with the Kelderman set up?



Scotty

 

[ASpathias]

Dodge 3500 dually 4x4 2004. 5. I am running Kelderman's stock height air bags up front and air lift primary ride in back. I have no alignment problems or tire wear problems at any ride height.



Yes the ride quality is not much better than stock when going over a concrete freeway with noticeable bumps at each divide (pitch). The ride is greatly improved over pot hole type bumps.



To over come the freeway pitch problem, I installed two small Bimba accumulator tanks per side (about a quart per side) in parallel (for quick response time) as close to the air bag as possible. This will get you that “Cadillac ride" or at least something that is much smoother that the stock steel springs and the stock air bag springs.



The front air ride is also now compensating for the rear air ride stiffness. The rear does ride smooth when loaded.



I am still going to make some changes to the rear air ride system, add accumulator tanks (this would smooth out the unloaded ride). Just to be clear, I don’t know what’s going to happen to the rear air ride system when I add extra accumulator (volume that doesn’t compress). I know the unloaded ride will improve, I don’t know what will happen to the loaded ride?

 

[CIverson]

Much thanks to greg at DRC.



After reading my last post he went and double checked my order and saw that I didn't get the HD springs, and he is sending me the correct ones.



It's nice to get good customer service nowadays, it's not too common anymore. Oo.

 

[LightmanE300]

When you guys say HD springs, are you meaning versus the HEMI springs or are you talking about the springs they offer for those folks with the huge roadarmor bumpers and the such? I have the standard chase kit for diesels and it's fantastic. I wouldn't want any more stiffness in the front, that's for sure.

 

[CIverson]

When you guys say HD springs, are you meaning versus the HEMI springs or are you talking about the springs they offer for those folks with the huge roadarmor bumpers and the such? I have the standard chase kit for diesels and it's fantastic. I wouldn't want any more stiffness in the front, that's for sure.

Yes, the ones for those with the huge winch bumpers. An HD diesel spring Vs. a Diesel spring.



I need one for the winter months when I tote around my 850lb plow.