2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Ladder bars with and without a Load

[Berserker]

Okay, My head hurts so I thought I would ask you guys.



I have a 5" lift on a 99QC 4x4 LWB. I used to drive around with a fiberglass shell on top and I had a pretty decent ride going down the freeway (little bounce). I just bought a 2500lb Lance 915 slide in camper and the truck still rides fairly good with the camper installed though I might put in some Firestone or air-lift air bags to stop some side to side body roll.



The problem is when I'm driving without the Lance camper on some of our southern California freeways I'm bounced to death.



I have a pair of the Fabritech stage II ladder bars sitting in my garage that I'm considering installing this weekend but how will the geometry work if I put the ladder bars in the vehicle unloaded and then later have to put in a 2500lb camper? Will that put stress on the drive line? Push it backwards so to speak?



Should I just go with air bags? Will air bags really fix the problem?



I can't think when my head hurts.

 

[mediccummin]

Just a warning before you tear the rear end apart to put on the rear brackets for the Fabritech stage II's. I have the same traction bars and attempted to put them on last week, the rear brackets in no way even came close to working. The hole for the pin was way to small. I was going to drill it out but then I noticed that even if I did that the holes for the U bolts were far from lining up. You would have to bend the bolts in funny angles to get them to pass through the holes, there was no way. Also if your pin is not long enough to pass through the bracket then into your axle you'll have to get different blocks with longer pins that are long enough to pass through both. I attempted to call Fabritech with no results, out to lunch. I'm now in the process of cutting them up and rewelding them to properly fit, but I'm going to mount them to the bottom of the axle. Your application may work, different year truck so maybe you will have no problems. And one other thing I noticed also was if I was able to mount them the bars would hit my brake lines. Sorry but as far as your question I'm not to sure. Never used air bags.

 

[SRadke]

I've never used ladder bars but air bags will not decrease body roll. They may change your ride height in such a way that other springs on the truck can help eliminate body roll but as a general rule the airbags will not do it on their own. Body roll is best eliminated with torsion bars or overload springs, ie as the body begins to roll it lands on the overload.



-Scott

 

[Berserker]

Air bags won't work?

Now I'm confused. I thought that the airbags would work for body roll. I got this off of the Air-Lift web site:



Solve These Problems with Air:

Air Lift, with over 50 years of suspension design and production experience, has developed air suspension products to solve load problems for autos, trucks, vans, and RVs. If you have encountered on or more of the following conditions, there is an Air Lift product for your vehicle that will help correct the following:



Sag: Load pulls back of vehicle down making steering difficult.

Sway and Body Roll: Vehicle moves up and down and from side to side.

Bottoming Out: Vehicle hits frame or axle on bumpy roads.

Headlight Misalignment: Back of vehicle is so low, that the headlights are in the trees.

Hitch Alignment: Unbalanced, non-level trailers may cause steering and braking problems.

Tire Patch Contact: Wheel bounce on washboard roads results in poor steering and braking.







If Air bags won't work and I already have overload springs which aren't effective then what can I do to solve the body roll when I'm loaded and the bounce when I'm not?



Thanks

 

[propuller]

Originally posted by mediccummin

Just a warning before you tear the rear end apart to put on the rear brackets for the Fabritech stage II's. I have the same traction bars and attempted to put them on last week, the rear brackets in no way even came close to working. The hole for the pin was way to small. I was going to drill it out but then I noticed that even if I did that the holes for the U bolts were far from lining up. You would have to bend the bolts in funny angles to get them to pass through the holes, there was no way. Also if your pin is not long enough to pass through the bracket then into your axle you'll have to get different blocks with longer pins that are long enough to pass through both. I attempted to call Fabritech with no results, out to lunch. I'm now in the process of cutting them up and rewelding them to properly fit, but I'm going to mount them to the bottom of the axle. Your application may work, different year truck so maybe you will have no problems. And one other thing I noticed also was if I was able to mount them the bars would hit my brake lines. Sorry but as far as your question I'm not to sure. Never used air bags.

Did you order the right bars as the axle plate is defferant from the auto to the stick. The stick has a dana 80 wich has a larger diameter axle tubes than the automatics dana 70. The holes in the plate for the dana 70 will be closer together. I just put these on my truck & they fit fine no modifications except to drill & tap the block & install a longer dowel pin.



Kurt

 

[Rob Thomas]

Berserker, I see in your pics that you have a anti-sway bar on the truck, but it doesnt look like you have the 5" lift kit installed in those pics, do you in fact still have the anti-sway bar on?



Rob

 

[justinp20012500]

As long as you use individual valves on the air-bags, I dont see why it wouldn't stop body roll????

 

[mediccummin]

Propuller it does appear they gave me the wrong brackets, but they wont replace them because it has been over 30days I bought them. They gave me the wrong part number. Anyway I'll make them work. Thanks for the info and you have a PM>

 

[SRadke]

Airbags act as secondary springs. They apply even load to each side (assuming the pressure is the same). To stop body roll you need a setup that will apply more lifting force as it is compressed. Airbags do do this to some degree but you have to compress them quite a distance to make it hapen and by the time that happens you're body has already rolled. The ideal situation would be a tortion bar followed by a set of overload springs that will support the weight of that side after it rolls onto them. A last resort would be stiff shocks to prevent any fast movement from happening but they'll ruin your ride.



You definitely want to individually valve the airbags. If you plumb them together they'll actually amplify the body roll.



-Scott

 

[Berserker]

Installed ari bags

Rob,



Yeah, my 5" lift came with extensions so that I could still use the rear anti-sway bar.



I installed a set of Air-Lift super duty bags today. They helped level it out and stopped a lot of the soft rear end feel. It helped the roll some but it's still not as solid as I'd like it.



Some of the truck camper forums recommend that I go to the Rancho 9000 shocks (9 way adjustable) but I'm not to sure that they would have them for my application. Rancho is pretty conservative on lifts and most of their shocks are for their lifts.



So my question on the ladder bars is still out there. If I put the ladder bars on the truck when it's unloaded will I have problems when I put the 2500lb Lance camper on?



Thanks

 

[Rob Thomas]

Re: Installed ari bags

Originally posted by Berserker



So my question on the ladder bars is still out there. If I put the ladder bars on the truck when it's unloaded will I have problems when I put the 2500lb Lance camper on?



Thanks

It's all going to depend on the ladder/traction bar, mine have no issues with a load.



Rob

 

[Little Bill]

I've been running a set Fabritech bars for over three years with no problems at any load. Had to modify the rear brackets a bit with the red wrench. You will have to extend the lift block pin about 1/4" so it engages both the plate and the axle. I also recommend safety straps between the frame and front end of any ladder bar.

 

[y-knot]

Berserker,

I have a 3500 4X4 with the 5,000lb air bags and a traction bar. I have no problems when loaded with our trailer which goes about 15,000lbs and 3,000 hitch weight. I have heard of guy installing the bars on a truck that is on jack stands with the suspension unsupported, they had problems once the truck was down on the ground. But that was only a problem because of poor installation, and had nothing to do with the bars.

I would check your FabriTech bars and make sure they are the right ones for your truck, sounds like their could be a mix up. I have a Ford with the FabriTech bars like yours, they are OK, but I am not happy with the way they old up to aging, mine started rusting the first year. The problem is that thin metal they use to bridge the upper and lower tubes. The way they are welded, to the sides, water and mud gets trapped in between the two and rust forms. Also I don't think they were powder coated very well. I also run the Rancho traction bars on my Dodge, they don't make a kit for it, I just made my own rear mount, but their bars are much heavier then the FabriTech bars. And the power coating is at least 3x as thick, no problems at all with there bars weathering. I had the same Rancho bars on a Chevy for almost 4-5 years and they didn't rust.

 

[NVR FNSH]

Originally posted by SRadke

... The ideal situation would be a tortion bar followed by a set of overload springs that will support the weight of that side after it rolls onto them.

-Scott

Got any examples of the torsion bars you're referring to?



Brian

 

[y-knot]

I have a few pictures for you, the first ones are of the rear mount. Since these were not designed to fit a Dana 80 rear end, I had to fab up the rear mount.



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I have this side shot of the bars, it isn't very good but will do till I get a chance to take some that are better.



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