Ladder Bars

[R.ebel]

Is anybody using the Fabritech or L&L ladder bars? If yes how do you like them and how far down do they protrude?
See them here http://www.NTWonline.com/ntw0799/pages/susacc.html

Also how about the Rancho Torque Arm, any users or opinions? http://www.gorancho.com/traction.htm

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1997 2500 SLT 4X4,5 spd,3. 54's,Pacbrake,Rancho 9000's,Centerforce,K&N,Isspro,BD 300 HP pump, Jardine 4", 370's and 16cm housing.

[This message has been edited by R. ebel (edited 04-22-2001). ]

 

[TomGolden]

Hey Chris,

I should have looked at your truck more carefully at Brandon's. Do you mean you have to permanently remove the sway bar, or just remove it to install the L&L's and then replace the sway bar?

Thanks,
Tom

 

[csutton7]

Tom--permanently gone--no need for it as the ladder bars do what the stabilizer bars did is what the L&L tech told me and plus it wouldn't fit back on anyway---chris

 

[willyslover]

just some additional ideas to ponder https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum3/HTML/003314.html
and https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum3/HTML/002554-3.html

 

[csutton7]

I got the L&L's and would say they're about 48" long(maybe a little longer) and at the rear of the fuel tank they hang down about 4" below the bottom of the tank-if I remember correctly----I like them alot--they firmed up the ol backside that's for sure--you need to remove the rear stabilizer bar--soon I'll post some pics if I can ever remember too---chris

 

[Ladders]

This is the info I rcvd from L & L Products (I changed the prices to +/- 5$ due to rules). This is for a y2k, 2wd, 5spd, w/Dana 80, SB. :


9 May 01

The ladder bar set that you need is part #5TB48E. We do have a set in stock at the time. To order , please call 972-475-5202. The cost is $280 for the set and $75 for the mounting kit.

Thanks,
L & L Products


Don’t know if this will help anyone, but hope it does.

SOTSU!!
\\BF//


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"Drifty" is a y2k SLT L. E. 2500QC/SWB/5sp w/PTO filter kit/3. 54LSD w/Mag-Hytec/bed spray/camper&tow/Ball valve oil drain/25. 5k 5th hitch/muffler&resonator STOLEN?/Nerf bars/E-Brake/etc
47k+ @ 1100. 4 hrs in 19 months.
Not Stroking, BUT, RAMming it Home! SOTSU!! aka \\BF//

 

[Cooker]

Does L&L have a website where we can see these bars at?

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

I'm not trying to sell anything here guys but just want you to be aware of the potential issues with different ladder bar setups so you can make informed decisions. Ladder bars have to be designed properly in order to allow for proper suspension articulation (for now I'm mainly talking about both tires moving in unison - ie on the street, although this also affects being able to "cross-up" the suspension) otherwise you will get suspension bind.

As your axle moves upward (relative to the frame) it has to also move rearward for two reasons. The leaf springs in the rear are attached solidly at the front and with a hanger at the rear, because as the axle moves upwards the leaf spring pack gets longer (measured from eyelit to eyelit) hence moving the axle rearward, the axle housing also rotates some rearward because of this.

If you have ladder bars that have a fixed mount at the axle (either clamped to the axle or attached at two points on the axle) then you have to have a shackle mount at the front mounting point of the ladder bars to allow this and it has to be properly designed (geometry equations - as with ANY good ladder bar design) - if you have a solid mount at the front and a totally solid mount at the rear (2 mount points or a clamp style mount) then you have virtually eliminated any suspension travel you would otherwise have - read rough ride and hard on parts. The biggest problem with this style of bar (fixed mount at the axle) is that when you put a heavy load in the truck or behind it that will settle the suspension you are either 1. putting a HUGE stress on the mounting points for the 2 point type bars or 2. putting a HUGE load on the clamp on the bars and in order for the rear end of the truck to sag the clamp will have to slip around the axle.

Also, many of the ladder bar setups out there require you to remove your anti-sway bar. Ladder bars DO NOT replace the function of an anti-sway bar, unless they restrict your suspension travel - in a way that's kind of what an anti sway bar does. Ladder bars should only locate the axle fore and aft (with the proper amount of rearward movement of the rear axle to allow for proper suspension travel) and not in any way shape or form stop the left side of the axle from moving upwards versus the right (full suspension travel). An anti-sway bar simply applies resistance from one side of the axle moving without the other doing so (but still allows flex and suspension travel - although less than if it was removed or disconnected, hence the sway bar disconnects that are sold to off roaders).

Also, AFAIK all of the off the shelf retail ladder bar kits out there use bushings for their attachments (I could be wrong on this though) and at least some of them are very wide. A bushing restricts the amount of twist that a ladder bar can produce which can reduce travel in a "crossed up" suspension. For most diesel drivers that is not a consideration - but some of us do off road and that's when this becomes a concern.

Last point is that there are different quality components that you can buy. For example you can buy regular 3/4" heim joints for $10-$15 ea or you can pay $30-$45 ea for moly heim joints - there is a difference, the regular heim joints will rattle soon after installation whereas the moly heim's won't.

I've avoided putting any names here on products because I do not want to be known as someone who talks products down to sell my own. Just wanted you guys to have a complete picture so you understand what you're looking at buying. I'm only posting my signature here to stay within the guidelines of the forums - if you want to blast me for this post go right ahead I understand and will take it like a man.

-Steve St. Laurent
Supplier of SS Ladder Bars


[This message has been edited by Steve St. Laurent (edited 05-09-2001). ]

 

[willyslover]

and that is exactly I'm buying the ones you have made up Steve. . [BTW they are now on official order v/s waiting for enough orders to come in]. .
Steve's bars are the best set up I have seen in all the years of racing and off roading that I have under my belt. .
there is no free lunch and ya pay for what ya get. . had the cheep ones [what a night'mare!!] before and learned my lesson

[This message has been edited by willyslover (edited 05-09-2001). ]

 

[csutton7]

www.LandLProducts.com

[This message has been edited by csutton7 (edited 05-10-2001). ]

[This message has been edited by csutton7 (edited 05-10-2001). ]

 

[David_VT]

FYI on the Fabritech bars:
Ask about the paint color vs it's strength.
I just learned that the pigment in my yellow bars causes the paint to chip very easily.

They have offered to repaint with me covering the shipping costs.

I am considering having them chromed locally. Anyone have any thoughts on that as to durability?

I like my bars. I spend most of my time on uneven dirt roads.

Bottom line, those darn suspension blocks in the back of our trucks are no good for axle wrap. Some form of wrap control will make you happy. (some better than others)

 

[Archive]

Rancho makes a set for our trucks. They are about $300, complete bolt on. They do not sit up high like the ones on Steves truck.

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2001 RAM H. O. 6Sp 2500 SLT 4x4 Quad Cab, 4Wheel Disc, 4. 10 Limited Slip, Fog Lights, Muffler removed, Silence Ring Gone, Autometer Pro Comp 60# Boost & Pyro, Banks High Ram (Red), Cummins Red Valve Cover, K&N RE-0880, Skyjacker 2. 5 lift Class 2, 7218 Dual steering stabilizers, Custom Pro Fab Trackbar (sweet), EGR Flares (nice fit), Centerline Comet III 16x9. 5 with Goodyear MT/R 315/75R16, Smittybuilt stainless nurf bars, ExTang BlackMax tonno, THIS IS NOT A HOBBY, THIS IS AN ADDICTION !!! MAINLINING DIESEL !!! "I AM GLAD I DID NOT BUY AN AUTOMATIC, JMO"

 

[Extreme1]

Another point:
Sway bars that clamp tightly to the axle and are pined at the front effectively turn the axle into a swaybar. That's a VERY BIG swaybar. When you are in the neiborhood of the correct torsion rate to control body roll, a 1/16" makes a significant difference. I think our axle tubes are on the order of a couple thousand times stiffer (no exageration).

So Steve, where did you buy the joints?

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'94 3500 4x4, 211,000 miles, Never had a cat, Auto w/shift kit (thanks Dave G), 3. 54 Gears, TST #5 plate, 235-85-16s, Rancho 9000s w/remote, Isspro Gauges & Amsoil Air, Oil & Bypass Filters & Lubes, AWOL intake boot.
Punchlist: 14 cm Turbo Housing, Torque Converter & 215 Injectors.
NRA member.
Blue Ribbon Coalition member.
"I am my own performance station"

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

I think Extreme1 meant "Ladder bars that clamp tightly to the axle and are pined at the front effectively turn the axle into a swaybar. "!! All of the parts (with the exception of the safety straps) are coming from the shop that installed mine. They aren't interested in doing mail order so that's why I'm in the middle here. What I do know is that he's paying $25 ea for the heims at a minimum order quantity of 40 (hence why I have to order a minimum of 10 sets at a time).

-Steve


[This message has been edited by Steve St. Laurent (edited 05-10-2001). ]

 

[willyslover]

Yo Ben. . Hope ya didn't think I was throwing a flame at ya. . NO flame meant !!
Just had my share of trial and breakage. .

 

[Ladders]

So, Steve, (tks 4 da edu-me-cation)where can we get more info on yours and pics?
Like to learn as well as the rest and any info that is posted is 99% gud info (there are those who MIGHT give wrong - but its usually due to lack of info on the subj). SO with that said and NO you are gonna get a "blast" from me, just more ques. With all the mfgs out there (and various costs) some may not need the best, but certianly require the quality/cost factor more than either extreme product.
I, personally, require the "occasion-ly" stability provided when chasing the balloon and end up in the sand (about 1-2 times a month). Anything more than that is "overkill" for my 2wd. If I am off-roading in a 4x4 then the "top-of-the-line" probably wouldn't be the best but close. As of now, dont really "need" them but to prevent later damage would like to have them to prevent the "wraping" when getting bogged down. (if I had less torque - probably wouldn't be in the situation in the 1st place)
I only posted the info as INFO not as an "in-dorce-ment" and agn THANKS for your knowledge (which - if I'm correct, is what this is all about).

Now for those who may read this wrong, I am not in any way "blasting" but still learning (daily) and at my age, that's a blessing <hehe>! WE all HAVE our "needs" and its better if another member fills them (or educates us), because they understand this "BEAST" we love and drive till its "just rite" (which it never is).

SOTSU!!
\\BF//

EDIT: another ques - do the bars "reduce" ground clearance, due to mouting method? IF they do then they wont work when bogging down in the fields - just add to the misery.

[This message has been edited by Ben Stair (edited 05-10-2001). ]

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

Ben, here's several threads on them. Willyslover linked to a couple of them above:

Custom ladder bars installed!: https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum3/HTML/002554.html
(the original thread with all the details and many comparisons and pics)

Ladder Bars available: https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum3/HTML/003314.html

SS ladder bars installed!!!: https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum3/HTML/003512.html
(this was about the short bed kit prototype and the first user here on the board that has them on his truck)

and here's the link to the ad in the classified section: http://www.turb odieselregister.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/classifieds. cgi?search_and_display_db_button=on&db_id=862&exact_match=on&photo_size=full&query=retrieval

BTW, IMO the best of the off the shelf bolt up bars are the Fabritechs. I do believe you can keep your sway bar with the Fabritechs too, can you verify that David?

-Steve St. Laurent
Supplier of SS Ladder Bars

[This message has been edited by Steve St. Laurent (edited 05-10-2001). ]

 

[David_VT]

Steve,
I can't confirm as I don't have a swaybar #ad


The mounting plate sits on the axle below the lift block.

The pin is forward and down from the plate.

The bars run directly forward from the mounting plate (and slightly up towards the frame of course).

Fabritech is very helpful with questions. Use a good search engine to find their website.

David