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Lance camper-Winter Use

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Hope this is appropriate for this forum. I'm moving in mid January and will spend 1 week + with the wife and new kid in my camper. I was looking for any inputs on using a camper/RV in severe cold weather. I have the winter package wich includes heated holding tanks and a strong furnace. How/when to fill it up with water if it's -25? I'm in ND and it can be well below zero with windchills that will scare you in the middle of Jan. Do I just leave the furnace running all the time on a low setting? Time to see if this Lance works in the winter as advertised. Thanks, I'll take any advice I can get and feel free to respond untill mid Jan... .



Dave
 
Dave, Not to sure how / where you'll get to fill that Fresh water tank, but, unless you have access to AC overnight, I bet you will drain your battery down real quick with that furnace going all night. If I was driving, I would crack the bathroon vent to pull the heat from the cab. If the waste holding tanks don't have to much in them, and they do ice up, I think you will be ok.



RonL
 
Lance Camper

Wow, -25. . gives me chills just thinking about it!

Being from PA. I can't compete with temps in that range but I do use my Lance yearly in 0 to +20 temps. (Mobile hunting camp) When it gets that cold I do leave the furnace on if I have any water in the tanks. I have also found it best to leave the cabinet doors open under the sinks to allow the heat to get into the pipes. I don't have the heated holding tanks in mine, it's a 95 modle year, so I keep plenty of RV antifreeze on hand to put in them. The fresh water tank is under the front step to the top bunk and there is an open grille so that heat will get to it. I would also think that the camper would be better off left on the truck in those conditions instead of free standing. Less wind chill to the lower section. Your one other concern will be keeping battery power so that the furnace keeps running unless of corse your able to hook up to house current. When we are hunting we don't have that luxury so if my batterys ( 2 deep cycle interstates) get to low to start the generator I can start the truck and get power back to the batterys through an isolator and then run the generator to charge them up again.

Hope this helps. ;)
 
Winter camper....

When I use my camper in the winter I carry a Honda EU1000 generator to keep the furnace going

and I carry water inside in a five gallon jug. If

you do carry fresh water in the camper and you loose heat you risk damage so for me I just carry it in a jug. The generator runs 11 hours on . 6 gallons so that keeps the furnace going overnight without a problem. Another thing to consider is the availability of a dump station in the winter if you do decide to use the indoor plumbing.
 
You should have half to a third of your battery left from running your furnace all night. You would be surprized at how long the battery lasts with the low draw blower moter in that furnace. It's the lights you have to watch and make sure you run the refrigerater on propane. If I were you and didn't have a solar panel I would start and run the truck the next morning to recharge the battery back up if your going to stay for a second night. If you have the Foam-core insulation or the all weather package you won't have any problems.
 
Great topic!! I have struggled with cold weather camping/hunting myself. (see pic in my album) I've found that I get about 2 1/2 days or so out of a 1100 A. deep cylce battery before it craps out. Thats in around 0*C ~ -10*C

George OO , Speedo, I have a couple questions... I was told that the generators out there for general use are square wave AC. that is its clipped DC I think is the term. Apparently that is tough on the camper powersupply/AC/DC converter. Have you had any problems? I tried an older gen. on my camper and the P/Sup. did make a 'funny' sound.

Last question, did you find the battery isolater worked well? Did it manage to fully charge your deep cycle in a reasonable amount of time?



thanks for any input.



Bush'
 
Battery Setup

I have a '93 Lance 880(11'3", xcab). I installed layers of R-13 insulation in battery compartment, and insulated all area's of the external shower, storage area under toilet, etc. Then installed photovoltaic system using: 2 Siemens 75 watt panels, controller, and (4) 6-volt Trojan Golf cart batteries(series to parallel for 12 volt) which are in the area pre-wired for the optional generator.

Use the camper in winter for hunting season, ice fishing and have not had any problems with freeze ups, although winter weather can be much milder here in Colorado. Always have full battery charge no matter how much lights or furnace (20k BTU) run. System installed now for 2 1/2 years. Have seen charge running as high as 8 amps with full sun(when first installed), mostly 3-5 amps is normal. I have had problems starting truck up at high elevation so I bought a 1500 watt inverter to allow for block heater use the night before starting. Have not installed yet, but it should work. I believe the block heater pulls about 5-6 amps if I remember correctly so (6 x 115) about 690 watts needed. I am going to install it in old battery compartment. This is just what I've done so I figured I'd share the info if any have thought of going in that direction. Problem here is the forest rangers always lock the campgrounds in the winter following hunting season. :mad:
 
Lance

Can't say that I have any experiance with square wave AC or clipped DC Bushwakr. All I know about generators is when they are running they are making power! I will say this though about the Onan Genset in my Lance. The colder it gets the harder it is to start. I asked the service guy at our cummins shop one day why I cant get it to start below 15 degrees. He said "you can start it at 15???"

I have been having problems getting my deep cycle batteries to last more than two hunting seasons so I emailed Interstate and explained my system to them. In thier reply they said that the best way to charge the batteries was with a charger that is rated at 20% of the amp hour rateing of the battery. So a 100 amp hour battery needs a 20 amp charger. The inverter in my camper does not shut off when the batterys are fully charged so it seems that I have been cooking the batterys by leaving the camper plugged into house current during the off season. He did not say that the generator or the inverter would hurt the batterys, only that the over charging will hurt them. As for the isolator, it works great. Again though I asked Interstate about charging the batterys through the isolator with my 160 amp alternator. He said no problem but keep in mind that an alternator is more a "maintainer" than a charger. he said that vehicle accessaries take precedence over battery charging so untill you hit highway speeds your really not doing anything to the batterys. In otherwords, letting the truck idle isn't going to help a whole lot. And idleing our cummins for long periods isn't a good idea anyway.

Oh, the Interstate guy also told me that for best performance you should charge the batterys when they hit 50% and the best way to test them is with a specific gravity tester. you know the turkey baster with all those little balls inside:D :D
 
LOL :p :p :D :D all this time the wife thought she just had a really entertaining turkey baster, and I thought my battery checker was a little cheapo... :D :D

I discovered the 'cooking the battery' situation myself. Went out to do something in the batt. compartment one day and found the battery hot enough to cook eggs and bulging. Ruined a near new battery :( even though the camper charger is only 5-6A.

20% of amp/hour ??? geez thats a 200+A charge rate for an 1100A batt. (unless my math is nackered) I didn't think of the alternator as a 'maintainor' over charger though...



My (limited) understanding of the isolator came from trying to charge the camper batt. I found that if/when the truck battery was charged the charge rate going to camper batt dropped because the truck batt. was signalling 'full charge'. Am I on the right track here???

The isolator is supposed to prevent that from happening allowing the charge rate to continue until the isolator reads the camper batt. fully charged. I thought I had a temp. workaround by starting truck, letting it idle for a few, then attaching the jumpers and removing the Ground from the truck battery. My reasoning was that then the camper battery would be doing the signalling so to speak. :confused: :confused:

Sorry this is so long, elect. is NOT my strong suit and any insight GREATLY appreciated !!



Thanks guys,



Bush'
 
Battery maintanance 101

Here is a copy of the message I recieved from Interstate. I thought all might enjoy and learn something. It's quite long but alot of good info.



George,

Thank you for your inquiry here at the home office of Interstate Batteries.

Q. Am I damaging the deep cycle batteries by charging them with the truck

alternator?

A. Remember, the alternator is not a charger, it is a maintainer. At start

up, the alternators' primary responsibility to all the electronic components

and to the entire electrical system then it will return to assist the

battery. Upon the start up, the battery's voltage is dropped. The amount of

voltage drop will depend on several factors. Here are a few: temperature,

battery maintenance, battery state of charge, overcharge, undercharge,

sulfation, and battery health. As long as you are at idle, the electrical

demands will exceed that of the alternators output. Therefore, the battery

in turn assist the alternator.

Q. Am I damaging the deep cycle batteries by charging them with the Onan

Generator?

A. It would depend on the output and float charge of your generator versus

the charge requirements needed for the SRM24. I assist you by giving you a

distributors' number and address nearest you if you provide to me your city,

state, and zip-code.

Q. If I leave the inverter plugged into house current at a campground or

during the off season will that damage the batteries?

A. As long as the inverter is smart and recognizes the internal resistance

of the battery and quits providing a charge to the battery. Otherwise,

constant current will be supplied to the battery creating an

overheated/overcharged condition.

Q. Would I be better off investing in your Optima batteries for my

application?

A. For your application, you will be better of using the SRM24s. The Optima

batteries are a good product. A disadvantage of them is the Optima battery

will not provide the ample amount of reserve capacity/ampere hour that your

application may require.

Here's some additional information on charging and maintenance:

1) Choose the correct charger that matches the type of battery you intend to

recharge, i. e. . liquid electrolyte, marine/RV, automotive, maintenance-free

and gel cell.

2) Match the proper battery voltage (6, 12, 24, or 36)

3) Choose the correct charger size in amps. A good rule of thumb is a

charger which will provide a maximum of 20 amps for each 100 Ah of the

battery

4) Select a charger with a capacity sufficient to fully recharge the

batteries within 8-12 hours

5) For optimum results, choose a maintenance-free type charger which is

timed or automatically shuts off when battery reaches a full state of charge

6) Always read and follow the charger instruction manual safety and

procedural recommendations. Different manufacturers offer various features

which may influence charging parameters.

*** DO NOT delay charging your battery after use. Recharge as soon as

possible after one day's use. Allowing the battery to sit discharged for

several days may hamper its recharge acceptance and ultimately its

performance



The battery in colder conditions will tend to discharge slower. Therefore,

the battery's life is longer.

About every 6-8 weeks a state of charge test will need to be performed. If

the voltage reading is below 12. 45v, charge battery to a full state of

charge. At 80 degrees a battery will be at 75% state of charge after 3

months. The longer the battery is left alone without its full state of

charge (12. 66v or 1. 265 specific gravity)battery discharge is greater as

well as sulfation within the cells. Sulfation is when a battery is allowed

to remain discharged too long, the accumulated lead sulfate in the plates

hardens and is not able to exit the plates to reconstitute the electrolyte.

Low temperatures; cold weather numbs the chemical reaction and drastically

reduces battery performance. Fully charged batteries at 0 degrees F. deliver

only 40% capacity; yet, at 0 degrees F. an engine requires twice the power

it would at 80 degrees F. A battery is at 65% efficiency at 32 degrees and

at 40% efficiency at zero degrees; so, once the battery is subject to these

cold temperatures (ambient temperatures will remain close to the same

whether the battery is insulated or not)the battery will discharge at a

rapid rate.

When batteries are maintained they can actually last quite a long time.

One of the simplest indicators of how your battery is doing is a hydrometer

reading and if you don't have a hydrometer they can be purchased for a few

dollars. When the battery begins to fail the hydrometer readings on the

individual cells will usually indicate a problem. When the readings from the

six battery cells are more than 50 points apart ( i. e. 1. 265 vs. 1. 215) the

battery needs to be replaced.

It is better to slow charge the deep cycle batteries. When you charge your

battery you are looking for quiescent current level. This is the point were

the charging amps drops to between 1 and 3 amps and remains constant. At

this point the battery is fully charged and the batteries internal

resistance will no longer accept the charge. Now if you have a dual stage

charger it will automatically shut itself off when quiescent current level

is reached. Once your battery is no longer taking a charge you can check it

with a volt meter and the reading should be at or above 12. 66 volts if fully

charged. Check the open circuit voltage of the battery every three months

if the battery hasn't used and charge the battery when the voltage falls

below 12. 45 volts (a 75% state of charge).

Should you have any other questions or concerns please e-mail me.

Sincerely,

Mark A. Estridge
 
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