Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Larry B starter rebuild kit done, hard starting a month later

[CharlieFoxtrot]

Hey y'all--

Just before I sold my truck to my stepson, my marine diesel mechanic friend installed Larry's Easy Starter Rebuild kit. He did that because my truck cranked very slowly. I'm going to assume he did the job correctly - he knows what he's doing, and I've never been inside a starter. Problem solved.

Anyway, a month later, the truck is hard to start again. Batteries still check out 100%. My stepson installed a parts store starter (I know, I know, ) and the truck starts fine again.

I'm 1200 miles away and can't be much help. So what went wrong? I told him to keep the old starter...

thanks
kevin

 

[B.G. Smith]

Isn't the Larry B kit just a rebuild for the solenoid. The starter brushes/armature may have been worn out? bg

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

It includes:

1. LarryB's SUPER Solenoid contacts 2pc
2. Solenoid plunger with center contact
3. Starter brushes, 4pc (Some soldering required)
4. Brush holder plate with new springs
5. "LarryBs" starter removal wrench, 10mm 12pt

It's supposed to be everything you need almost every time. I'd expect if there was an armature problem, my friend would have spotted it, but I can't swear to it. The brushes were definitely shot. Something in his solder joint could have failed, but I'd trust his work more than mine in that department.

 

[SMcGrady]

Good call on having him hang onto it. It might be a simple fix, then he'll have a good spare for when (not if) the parts store starter craps out...

 

[JKosten]

How is the battery crossover cable? Ground cable to engine?

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

Cables all looked good.

It really bugs me that I fixed the problem a month ago, and now it's back.

 

[JKosten]

You can check the cross over cable by jumping it with a jumper cable. Then jump from the ground to the block. That will help if you have a bad cable. My 96 had corrosion deep in the cross over cable.

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

But if the cables were bad, changing from my original starter with new brushes, etc, to a new AutoZone starter wouldn't have made any difference, right? The truck started fine for a month after I redid the starter.

 

[JKosten]

Correct, but bad cables would put a larger load on the contacts and could cause them wear faster (in theory).

 

[JR]

Have him pull it apart, can't hurt anything and it could be a good learning experience for when that Autozone special craps out...:-laf

Short of perhaps a loose or corroded terminal or stud that was corrected when the starter was changed I would guess a broken solder joint as well.

 

[fest3er]

A broken solder joint would likely prevent the starter from working at all.

Ensure all the wiring between the batteries and the starter is OK. Also ensure the ground strap from the block to the batteries is good.

Mayhap the new brushes did not seat correctly or there is some fault that prevents the springs from pushing the brushes against the armature.

JR is right: take the starter apart. That's much easier than removing and installing it.

 

[Hammer]

Let Me ask this since I didn't see you mention it anywhere...
Did you inspect the main cable from the drivers side battery to the oil pan rail and then to the starter???
That cable where it is held on the pan rail is a know short area and causes issues just like your experiencing.
It was moved when you removed the old starter and engine vibration/road vibration could have put it back in the spot where the short happens.
It will either ground out the starter or create hard starting issues and can also create a short in the charging system if really bad.

 

[JMcCoy]

Your frustration is understandable. I would feel the same way. This is what I would do. For a base line, have him take the starter to a local parts store to be tested. An alternator/starter shop would be better, but they will likely charge him. I would just got to the parts store. It will either test good or bad. If it tests good, I would have him look for another problem (ie short). If it test bad, have him take it apart, and take pictures. The problem may make itself known right away. Once put pack together, have him take it to be tested again. That is just what I would do.

 

[DonFitzwater]

Just perform a voltage drop test on all of your starting components. This will pinpoint the exact failure point and no more guessing.

 

[petersonj]

Just perform a voltage drop test on all of your starting components. This will pinpoint the exact failure point and no more guessing.

DonFitzwater is right on target here. This is only test (using a digital multi-meter) that is reliable because it tests every electrical component in a specific circuit while it is under a load. For example, in a starting circuit, that means every battery, wire, switch, and every electrical connection can be tested as a whole or individually with pinpoint accuracy. A poor connection in a specific location can be diagnosed without disturbing the circuit.

Unfortunately, not everyone understands how to perform a proper voltage drop test. A crude way to perform this test without a digital multi-meter and with known good batteries is to disable the engine from starting and then have a helper crank the engine for 15 seconds at a time while you place your hand (careful here) on various connections in the related circuit. If any connection begins to rapidly heat, then you have found a poor connection. Let the starter cool for at least 30 seconds for every 15 seconds of cranking.

I have diagnosed many situations like this in the field without test equipment. It works.

If one learns how to perform a voltage drop test with a digital multi-meter, one can monitor the condition of the starting circuit and maximize the life of batteries without sacrificing starters... and one will probably never experience a no-crank situation on a road trip.

Also, just because a starter checks on a test bench (no load) it doesn't mean that it will crank over your Cummins engine. This is why it is imperative to test the starter under a load (hence, the voltage drop test).

Thank you, DonFitzwater for pointing this out.

- John