learned something about the Volumizer today

[OT-OF-HERE!!]

volumizer

Originally posted by CSilkowski

My box is over a year old and been on two different '03s and never thrown a code. I have the 0-60-100hp option. Probably the best upgrade I've done on my truck.

You didn't say you were towing with it? If so, what CGVWR?

 

[DLeno]

Originally posted by bpenrod

Why would the presuure go down as the box was turned up?

the short answer is that whats being measured is the pressure-fooling behavior of the box, not the actual rail pressure. the DRB is not capable of measuring actual rail pressure when a pressure box is installed.



The box-off behavior of 18,000 psi does sound low -- but may be because the box (in the off position) is boost fooling the ECM without adding any fuel. 18,000 psi is low for a stock 2003 HO (305) truck running WOT, so I still have some uncertainty here. Maybe there was some variability in the measurement, or maybe the DRB didn't capture actual maximum pressure during the experimental driving run. The Volumizer caps maximum boost at a figure that is BELOW stock maximum -- so the ECM may not fuel as hard I don't know. Note that I'm not completely certain about this, as I haven't made pressure measurements myself. I have characterized how the Volumizer boost fools, however.



Note that If these are low side pressures (line pressure, as has been clarified), and the comma is european for a decimal point, the pressures are way too high for a stock truck (there is no pusher pump installed). I'd expect much lower than 12 psi at WOT, certainly, but beyond that I didn't even know that low side pressure was even available from the ECM. is it? rail pressure is definately available via DRB -- because it is spec'd by DC/Bosch. But I didn't think that low side pressure was - it is not spec'd by DC.



So I don't think these are low side line pressures.



I think they are high side pressures, (rail pressure) as reported by the ECM. Note that its natural that they would go down at the higher HP settings. thats what pressure boxes do! They make the ECM think that rail pressure is low. so the DRB reports low fuel pressure, because it only reports what the ECM sees -- and the ECM is being fooled by the box, and the DRB is only as smart as the ECM is. ahem. note to DC mechanics: don't expect to get the truth from a device that is being fooled .



I get a chuckle out of reports where a DC tech goes riding in a truck with a box on, and verifies that all is within factory specs according to DRB. What they don't realize is that they are reading the ECM, and the ECM is fat dumb and happy because an external box is lying to it.



A fooled pressure of 13,000 psi, to the ECM, to me means VERY agressive fueling. it suggests that the CP3 is going all out. It may be that the Volumizer at 100HP (its not a 120HP box) might be pulling the rail too low, I don't know. that of course will cause the box to fuel harder, and lower the fuel pressure signal as seen by the ECM even more.

 

[bpenrod]

Makes sense now! Thanx for clearing it up for me, I didn't tkae into account the fooling of the box.

 

[DLeno]

more volumizer learnings --



1. The timing function appears to be independant of fueling. I disconnected the timing harness and everything ran just fine. This next part is pretty subjective but frankly I didn't expect this so I don't think I'm too far from the truth here: with the timing harness disconnected from the cam and crank sensors, I was expecting some sort of drivabilty difference. Instead, what I noticed was that the EGT gauge climbed a tad faster than before. Mind you, this wasn't an "oh yea" moment, just a "huh, maybe this thing does give a small EGT advantage due to timing. I hate giving these non-objective opinions because they are prone to error. If I can get some time on a load dyno I may be able to quantify a steady-state EGT difference, timing versus no timing.



2. Without the timing harness connected, the Volumizer acts like another pressure box, only with fancy low-end boost fooling that makes it come on very strong.



Now I know I've raised more questions that I've answered. sorry about that. I just can't numerically quantify the timing/no-timing behavior of the box. It sure does come on strong at the low end, though.

 

[JThiessen]

Two different Volumizers out there?

While doing a search for dyno runs on the Volumizer, I found this page:



It seems that there are two different Volumizer box's out there. Anyone know anything about this second one (by Motoblue)?

http://www.rpmoutlet.com/ds994603ins.htm

 

[COSEng]

Towing Box?

DLeno,



I believe you used to call this box a "dyno day box". Have you changed your opinon?



Has anyone towed with the Volumizer?



Thanks,

Carl

 

[DLeno]

Its definately a "dyno day" box in the sense that it finishes strong and should post good peak HP numbers on dyno day. I use the term loosely to distinguish from boxes that put more emphasis in the towing region (good torque rise in the low to mid region) than the top end, where peak HP is made.



Yea, the Volumizer surprised me with a Ramifier-like low end boost fooling behavior that makes it smoke more, pull harder and spool up quicker down low. still a good dyno day box though, in that it pulls hard well into the high RPMs where EGTs can be a problem if you don't have the air for it.



I should point out that the only reason I coined the term , "towing box" is because some boxes pull hard down load and then taper off at the high end to help control EGTs. The dyno day boxes will tow great -- they just give you more power and more EGT risk at the upper RPM range.

 

[Intense Marine]

Volumizer

It may be that the Volumizer at 100HP (its not a 120HP box) might be pulling the rail too low, I don't know.

From what I understand the first boxes released were dyno'd in the upper 90hp range on the high setting. The boxes started haveing a problem. They found it to be a major shielding problem. They went back in and fixed the problem. They then redyno'd the box and it showed 116hp on the high side. "That is when they were called a 120hp box. " Then the 2004. 5 truck came out. They redesigned the box the both trucks. It now dyno's 100hp on the 2004. 5 trucks. I think it still dyno's 116hp on the 2003 trucks.



Brad

 

[COSEng]

DLeno,

Thanks again for all of the great info you provide.....

so the Volumizer would be a good towing box but watch

the high end EGTs.



Since you have ran both boxes, would the VA pressure

box even be in the same class as the Volumizer for

low end torque and towing?



Thanks,

Carl

 

[DLeno]

Just from the butt dyno I would say no. Indeed, the both the design goals and the results are different.



Volumizer: An aggressive pressure box with re-mapped boost signal for a stronger low end than most others. very responsive throttle. max pressure probably in the 26,500 region. Good strong acceleration well into the higher RPMs, which is (I believe) where the highest rail pressures dictate maximum peak HP which is claimed to be in the 100 HP region.



VA C3. 1: A mild pressure box with rpm based strong low end without being touchy. The've done something different here that makes the power come in good but not at the light throttle positions. max pressure just a nudge over stock, at 23,300. torque curve tapers off towards the high end, limiting EGTs and maximum HP to about 30 HP (peak over stock).



But you asked about low end torque and towing. thats a great question that cant' be answered accurately without a dyno run, but I would say that the VA pressure box is "most", but certainly not "all" of a Volumizer down low. The VA won't make any smoke on its own, as the V will, but that means its easier on the turbo too .

 

[Yo Hoot]

Which one makes more smoke from a standing start? VA or Volumizer?



Thanks for a wealth of great info!

 

[DLeno]

Volumizer. on the 6 speed, you can cruise at, say, 1500 RPM and mash the pedal. BLACK smoke!