Lemon Law buyback.

[WStoops]

For those who have read my many posts regarding the dreaded vibration and drone, my Lemon Law hearing was today. DC lost and was ordered to buy my truck back. Will I be getting another HD Ram? DEFINITELY NOT. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. The DC guy said this is a normal condition. The engineer for the state said he as inspected at least 10 others with the same defect. Angry as I am with DC, I am still considering a hemi Durango because there is no other vehicle like it from any other manufacturer. Just have to get the bad taste out of my mouth first. Their horrible customer service has just turned off another HD Ram owner. NEVER AGAIN!!! If you have the problem, don't put up with it. You deserve better.

Wayne :{ Oo.

 

[rbattelle]

On the one hand I'm sorry to hear your issues couldn't be resolved. On the other hand, I'm happy for you that you won your hearing! Whatever you choose as your next vehicle I wish you best of luck.



-Ryan

 

[crobertson1]

Sorry to hear about your problem. For what it's worth, mine had a vibration at 70-75 mph that was fixed the first time to the dealer. Yours must have been pretty complex. Mine was fixed by re-balancing the front driveshaft. I feel for you though.

 

[mberry]

Glad you won your hearing also. Whatever brand you choose good luck. I would drive the crap out of it before I signed the papers on anything but I don't think I would rule out another HD Ram. Give yourself time to get that bad taste out and then decide.

 

[dcscott]

Wayne,

I'm sorry to hear about your problems. I have to agree, this is the last Dodge I'll own. I've had three Jeeps, an 89 Cherokee, a 95 Grand Cherokee, and a 98 Wrangler. All were driven over 250K, none ever went back to the dealer. Two of the three needed a new radiator and one took a starter. Other then that just normal maintenance. Now I've got what is supposed to be a rough, tough Ram and I've got a Cummins that leaks antifreeze, a sticky injector that nobody seems to be able to fix, u-joints about to blow up, and a 6 speed that shifts worse then then any manual transmission I've ever owned. Add in the paper thin metal body, the crappy paint job, and the uncomfortable seating and I'm not inclinded to want to come back. Especially when I look at the ugly mug on the front of the '06.

 

[DieselTweaker]

Congrats on your win, from what everybody says I can see myself sticking with first gen's ,,,, Good luck on your next buy .

 

[GerryDrake]

Sounds like the reasons I left Ford... Put the fifth transmission in (850 miles on that one) and when what Ford calls customer service refused to stand behind the warranty... ... . I get fuming just thinking about it...



Traded it in on my CTD and have been lovin' it ever since...

 

[Lorenz]

Im ready to do a buy back as well on the injectors. she's been in 4 time and "all is ok". i have it on tape the morning i got it back last. All is not ok!



Ive contacted a lawyer. could you pm me the pertinants if you don't mind?

 

[MMead]

Wayne -



I can't help but be a little nosy... Could you tell us some of what was said at the hearing? What did DC use as a defense, did they say all trucks are supposed to vibrate your teeth out? Who did they send as a representative? I hope DC is at least acknowledging this is a serious problem.

 

[GIT-R-DONE]

Good luck with your next vehicle. Too bad DC couldnt get it right for you. I am also glad to see you are not like some of the Ford/Chevy owners that are brand loyal. Go with what works for you, and best wishes.

 

[WStoops]

Wayne -



I can't help but be a little nosy... Could you tell us some of what was said at the hearing? What did DC use as a defense, did they say all trucks are supposed to vibrate your teeth out? Who did they send as a representative? I hope DC is at least acknowledging this is a serious problem.

Dc sent a guy from MA to represent them. He is retired and I assumed he is a lawyer. Sounded like it. His response was that I bought the wrong truck. According to him, the 3500 was built to haul heavy loads and not as a highway cruiser. He said that it is DC's view that these HD trucks will vibrate and that that is not a defect but rather just the way they are. I personally doubt that is actually DC's view and I think he was just talking out his butt to try and win the case for them. I asked him if he was suggesting that these $50,000 trucks were only built for around town use. He said I was expecting too much. The engineer, a state employee said that he has driven 10 of these trucks with Vibrations/Launch Shudder/ Drone, and that they are all manifestations of the same thing, mainly pinion angle misalignment or high pinion angles due to excessive ride height. The arbitration board asked him if there was a vibration problem that DC was working on and were there other vehicles with the same problem, Yes or No! He said yes. That was the end for him as I think that pushed the board over to my side. I should say that my truck was only worked on 2 times and after that there was a refusal by 5 different dealers to get involved. The engineer drove the truck on the highway. It was cold, around 14 degrees at the time of the ride, and that made the vibes much less than at higher temps. He also restricted his speed to 68 mph which is just above the onset speed. If he had gone to 70 he would have really seen something impressive. Still, his analysis to the board of 3 voting members, was that the vibration was present, unrepairable and he thought the truck should be classified as a lemon. They agreed but assessed a mileage assessment of an unknown amount, I think around $8,000. They have to reimburse me for the filing fee ($50), my cap ($1200) and my Di Prichol EGT and pillar ($190) plus all delivery, destination, dealer prep fees and sales tax. I have now come to think that the dealer is the key to not having to go through this. My dealer, Mitchell Dodge, in Simsbury CT, made no concerted effort to fix the truck. They kind of left me hanging out there to fend for myself. The owner of the dealership refused to call me or help in any way. I'm going to get a Durango Limited with a Hemi for my towing and travel needs but I have to hold my nose to do it. Right now, there is nothing else out there as capable for the size, money, features, appearance, and price. UNFORTUNATELY. I would love to tell them to stick it and it just kills me to give them any more money. Once again, if you have a good one right from the get-go, the warranty is meaningless since you don't need it. It is when you have trouble, as many here have discovered, that the rubber meets the road. Tonight I drove a Durango I am thinking of buying, 20 miles on the highway. Once burned, twice shy. Nuff said. When I was flying, an examiner once told me CYA, cover your you know what. Good advice then and now. Wayne

 

[WStoops]

I should add that I'm getting the Durango from another dealer, the one I bought my 03 from and should not have abandoned. Good guys, Wilson Dodge in Torrington, CT.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

John Holmes discusses these problems in Issues 45 and 47. Carson Dodge and he went to some lengths and as a result one of the worst Rams was totally fixed and Jerry Nielsen bought it.

I bought my 2004 off the lot without even test driving it. I may have been lucky, but there is no problem with it, never had to take it in for any warranty work. I suggest you look around and test drive new Rams until you find a "perfect" one, then buy it. The problem you had is not so common, and I believe a good dealer would have fixed it. You need to change dealerships rather than brands, imho. I drove all 3 a year ago and you couldn't give me either a F or a C; sorry, they were that bad.



If you felt the need for a 3500 SRW 4x4, you just won't be happy with a Durango. If you ever go out west, the mountain elevations kill the power of normally aspirated gassers also. Your 3500 SRW drives solo just as well as a 2500; the main difference is your helper springs that are not in use with the truck empty. If you want to level the rear end with the front, get a spray-in bed liner, an auxiliary in-bed fuel tank, and put some 1" thick plywood down to protect the bed and add weight. Mine has those things and rides very smoothly even where "freeway jounce" from expansion strips in the concrete would make for a rough ride empty.

 

[Rams-n-Hogs]

Glad you won your case, but I'm inclined to agree with Joe. I would look at trucks from other dealers. The Durango's are nice, and the Hemi seems to be a pretty good engine. I had one in my 1500 a while back, which was a short bed. That is a good engine for a sport vehicle, but I'm not too sure I would want to tow much with it. I had zero porblems with it, but I didn't feel it had the right qualities for towing. I have had zero problems with my 04 Cummins, also. I think your case was an exception. Whatever you decide, good luck to you.



Jim

 

[Crunch]

The engineer, a state employee said that he has driven 10 of these trucks with Vibrations/Launch Shudder/ Drone, and that they are all manifestations of the same thing, mainly pinion angle misalignment or high pinion angles due to excessive ride height.

How many of the people who have had this problem also have a 4X4 that they have lifted, even if it is an inch?

 

[PJ]

Still, his analysis to the board of 3 voting members, was that the vibration was present, unrepairable and he thought the truck should be classified as a lemon. They agreed but assessed a mileage assessment of an unknown amount, I think around $8,000. They have to reimburse me for the filing fee ($50), my cap ($1200) and my Di Prichol EGT and pillar ($190) plus all delivery, destination, dealer prep fees and sales tax. Wayne

Congrats on your buyback but... $8000 for mileage?? How many miles did you have on that truck? I basically went through the same problem you did but with my 04. I had 7 alignments and a set of ball joints in 10 months, and 13k miles. A few other small issues. The ball joint problem toasted the stock set of BFG's and they were about to replace them when I optioned to replace the truck. I wrote a few letters and wasn't impressed with the outcome idea of a buy back. I think it was my letter to the Bearu of Automotive Safety that got the dealers attention. I got a phone call within a week from the dealer and was asked to come on in and look for a new truck. The truck I found, had to be dealer traded and had all the options I wanted and a few more, that I was glad I got. It only was 2 days after that when I took delivery. All and all, I feel I got a fair deal. I upgraded to a year newer truck, zero miles, went from a 2500 to a 3500 (that was a BIG plus) and I got the lighter Atlantic blue with Taupe interior, that I really wanted with my 04. The total diff between the two trucks was about $3,300. That was it, and I didnt have to do the lemon law thing. Looking back, if my 04 had been a 3500, I would have most likely kept it because it was the 305-555 truck and didnt have the white smoke issue Im working with now, yet the dealer said it is now fixed as of yesterday. My 04 also got a few miles per gallon better than my new truck. Oh well, as my wife says, "its just a truck and I know you wont own it more than a few years anyway". She most likely is right, but Im not real excited with the new "mega cab". I think it will take some getting used to, like all the other Dodge changes in the past. I still feel that the 2nd gen trucks look the best, but that is just my opinion. I miss my 98 12v. . that was a really nice truck. During the problems I was having with my 04, I got alot of flack from guys online telling me I was too picky, but WTF, it was my truck and I feel you should get what you pay for! I personally think you should give another Ram a try. The Durango is nice but... I would get one of those for the wife and have a new Ram for myself!
Good luck on your choice.
Before you turn your 04 in to the dealer, take it out for some fun. . I did it the day before my truck left and was amazed on how far the tires smoked from a standing start! So was my youngest son!:-laf

 

[WStoops]

I remain impressed with the quality and intelligence of the people who visit this site. I appreciate every piece of feedback and advice I have gotten here. I'd like to answer a few of the questions and make a fews comments on this experience. I think the mileage assessment is extreme, since I could only drive the truck around town or below 60 mph. The State of Ct calculates mileage by taking the contract price (price aftrer any rebates), in my case $46,733 times the current mileage of 19,355. The result is then divided by 120,000. In my case that equaled $7698. 61. No allowance was made for the reduced usefulness. The state awarded me, a full refund plus all interest paid on my loan, dealer prep, destination, delivery charges, all sales tax and registration charges. In addition DC has to pay me for my cap, $1200 and my Di Prichol EGT. Total comes to around 52G minus the mileage allowance.

From time to time we have all mentioned the importance of the dealer when there is a problem. The dealer is the first line of defense for the consumer. When he fails to meet his obligation to his customer, the system just falls apart. These big companies are not structured to deal directly with the consumer. The customer, in that scenario, is stuck in limbo. I lost track of the number of calls I made to my dealer. I tried repeatedly to get the owner on the line with no success. I told the salesman I was open to a deal of some kind and was willing to discuss any and all options. They just ignored me. Their service manager told me he couldn't help me and I should file for the Lemon Law. If I was DC, I'd be fuming at Mitchell Dodge. This could have been avoided entirely.

When I bought the 3500 I had a 2500 on order that had no delivery date after 10 weeks. I saw this one and went for it. I occasionally tow 8500 lbs locally,(loader/backhoe/trailer) which I am now selling as I am moving from the snow belt to the sun belt to retire. Therefor I have no need to tow that any more. I will be getting a nice boat of maybe 6,000 lbs which would most likely be towed only locally in flat country. I am thinking about a small camper to take to dog shows where I show my German Shorthair Pointer (first cousin to Carlee who won at Westminster this year). It might weigh a little more than the boat. When I bought the 3500 I was following the suggestions of those who say, "Always buy more truck than you think you will need". Sound advice to be sure, but now that my needs have changed somewhat, I think the Durango will fit my needs. I did buy one today, a Hemi Limited, to somewhat comfort me after the loss of my beautiful 3500 Laramie. It has everything except the

RB1 GPS which I have found another dealer to install for $1595. It is an 04 leftover with every other option, List 41,134, Invoice 36,723. I bought it for 31,300, $5423 under invoice. the dealer who I talked to about the GPS said he will buy it if I don't. I drove it 20 miles on the highway at 70 last night, overhead said 18. 7 with 3. 55 gears. It will tow 8600 lbs but probably not as easily as my cummins would tow 20,000. Like so many others her, and perhaps more recently than most, I have driven the offerings from F and G. They fall way short of the Dodge in comfort, serviceability (ever look under the hood of a Duramax?), beauty, ride, handling, and definitely braking. So Dodge almost hit the nail square on the head, slightly off center hit. I think the introduction of the mega cab and a resolution to this vibe/shudder/drone problem will really give them an edge over the competition. I know some will say the Cummins has problems, so does every kind of mechanical device. Although my heart goes out to those people, those problems are rare according to the posts. There are a great many bombers here. When I was young I would have been right in there with them. I have always subscribed to the axioms that the girls can never be too pretty or too willing, their dresses too short or lowcut or the beer too cold. No amount of horsepower is enough. Pushing the limits is a guy thing we all love. BUT, as we often hear, You Play, You Pay. I still plan to visit here regularly and who knows, I might look for an earlier one to bomb myself. Wayne

 

[sag2]

You will love the Durango. My wife hated all three of my last 3rd gen trucks. They are too noisy, ride too rough, bla bla bla.

Well she loves the Durango. It runs great, it one of the quietest vehicles I've driven, and the fuel economy is starting to get a little better. I drive the pants off it, and it is averaging low to mid 17's on the highway. That is up from 15-16 when new. Around town it still burns it, but that has more to do with the heavy right foot than anything.

In fact I loaned it to the next door neighbor this afternoon to go chase some parts for her car, and she came back raving about it.

 

[BNH4221]

From time to time we have all mentioned the importance of the dealer when there is a problem. The dealer is the first line of defense for the consumer.

Wayne,



You couldn't have been more correct in that statement. Basically, DC corporate doesn't give a hoot about the customer. They build the truck and ship it out. Thats about it.

When there is a problem with the truck, the dealer gets to handle it. Not DC.

When there is an unhappy customer, the dealer gets the earful. Not DC

When there is a recall, a flood, fire, famine, you name it, the dealer handles it. Not DC.

So why should DC care? They don't have to deal with any of the issues.



Luckily, I have a dealer that tried to help me fix my vibe, even though I didn't buy the truck from them. They brought in a DC engineer who spent 6 hours on the truck and made the vibration significantly better. It is still there, but almost liveable. Almost.

They keep promising there is a fix on the way but I have my doubts. Why fix what they don't have to deal with. I guess I will just have to wait and see.

The problem you had is not so common, and I believe a good dealer would have fixed it.

Respectfully, Joe D. , I disagree with this statement. I firmly believe that there is a serious design flaw in the vehicle somewhere causing this vibration. I will not pretend to know where, i. e. engine, trans, shaft, frame or whatever. I believe that there are a large number of trucks with the vibration and that most owners either don't know or don't care because it is a truck. The TDR, DTR, NWB and Oilburners groups are a relatively small percentage of owners who tend to be fanatical about their rides and as such, notice things like the vibe.

Take my wife (PLEASE!) for example. The same 70 MPH vibration that drives me nuts doesn't even register with her. A typical car owner. Put gas in it, change the oil once a year and drive it.

I think DC counts on people like her. They won't complain so why fix it? Even the engineer that looked at my truck said as much. A low priority for DC he said, because not enough complaints about the vibe. The squeaky wheel principle at work.



Wayne, congratulations and good luck with the Durango.



Steve

 

[EBottema]

I would stay away from any new dodge products sold. The hemi is not really a true hemi as we saw back in the 60's, just a name to make people think its cool

The durango looks terrible IMO but people have different tastes. However, try getting into the driver seat, unless your a shrimp, you head will hit the roof as you get into the SUV. All the new dodge stuff has many different parts on it that are all made cheaply out of plastic. If you plan on keeping it for more than 5 years, it will look like hell after that, I guarantee you that!



I'd stick with a Ford Expedition with the 5. 4L gas engine over a durango anyday.



Sorry about your Ram, glad you won!