Lengthening Toy Hauler

[TFlewitt]

Double towing

The double tow issue is different between TT and 5er in some states. I'm not sure how it works, but if you have a 5er, you can double tow in some places that you can't with a tt. Laws like this should, IMHO, be national, not state by state. It would certainly make it easier on the trailer towing population.

The double towing I was referring to was a 5th wheel pulling another vehicle/trailer. I believe most states won't allow 2 bumper pulls as this is in many cases dangerous. I believe the road law websites I referenced above detail this. As far as 5th wheel double tows are concerned, yeah, I agree - way too many laws. Some states allow it, some won't even let you in the state! I was told you would be stopped, ticketed, and forced to unhook. Damn un-civil dis-servants!

 

[TFlewitt]

Double towing

So I have a 5ver and a commercial class A license. I haven't been to Texas, I wonder if semis are allowed to tow doubles in that State. If they are, what would the difference be with a commerical driver and a Fifth Wheel?

That is what I was going to do, get a class A license to double tow. In CA, you can double tow with a commercial license, but without, it is illegal. But with Texas and BC/Canada, the law is different for commercial and non-commercial vehicles. They make a distinction between pickups and motor tractors. After talking to both DOT departments, I remember breathlessly cursing their inanely illogical distinctions, but that is their "law. " I found it strange too - I thought Texas allowed just about anything. In BC, they've just started a pilot project to allow "motor tractors" to haul doubles, but will not allow anything non-commercial to do so.

 

[NVR FNSH]

Have you looked at Patio Hauler models by KIT? I think they go by Extreme and are located in Caldwell, Idaho. KIT had a ~40 ft 5th wheel with ~14 feet of garage - I have the 36ft 351FP with a 10ft garage.



Frankly, the modifications you're proposing sound like more work than is worth.



Brian

 

[BDW]

I live in Texas and I'm not sure where you got this info from, but I just looked on line at TxDOT and it says you can tow 1 or more trailers at a time. There are alot of conditions but according to the hand book any with a Texas drivers licsense can tow 2 trailers as long as they arent over the restricted weight of their licsense. Also found where light trucks pulling a trailer can go up to 70 mph same as cars.

 

[icman95]

TF,



I guess you do need a bit more room. I bet 4 kids will take up some space on extended travels. With us it's just me, my wife, and our 2 German Shepherds. We actually use it quite a bit, but not on extended travels. Our work schedules don't allow for more than a week or so at a time. We just got back from South Dakota with it. This was the longest trip we have taken with it and it performed wonderfully. The floorplans offered and features/options available really give anyone looking at them a wide variety of ways to outfit it. Our dealer prefers to have the customers custom order them from the factory so they can get exactly what they want. This is what we did and KZ was all too willing to accommodate us.



They gave a lot of thought to every detail as far as placement and usage of each appliance or cabinet. The design is great, BUT, and we have found this with most RV's-the build quality is ok, but not great. In order to build it light enough and cheap enough, the walls are paper thin and some of the wood trim around the kitchen isn't that good. It is obvious that they did the best they could for that price and weight range, so I guess it's ok.



Had it in for a few minor warranty issues, but nothing a show stopper. The hot water knob flew off the sink one morning like Old Faithful. Water sprayed everywhere. The dealer had never heard of that happening before and replaced the whole faucet assembly on the spot. One other problem was a bad electical line in the bathroom that was shorting out and blowing the fuse. Overall, we love it. Taking it out this weekend. Just backed it into my driveway tonight to get it ready.



One bit of advice: read the options list carefully and select as much as your wallet will allow. There are a lot of great things they offer that you'll kick yourself later for not getting.



Good luck.

 

[TFlewitt]

I live in Texas and I'm not sure where you got this info from, but I just looked on line at TxDOT and it says you can tow 1 or more trailers at a time. There are alot of conditions but according to the hand book any with a Texas drivers licsense can tow 2 trailers as long as they arent over the restricted weight of their licsense. Also found where light trucks pulling a trailer can go up to 70 mph same as cars.

A number of road law websites listed Texas as not allowing non-commercial double towing. Woodalls below said the opposite, so I called TxDOT and they confirmed that double towing is not legal. I then talked to their supervisor who also read me the section and confirmed it is not allowed. I'd be interested to know the section you are reading that seems to indicate it is legal, and I'll look at it on the web. There are still too many other states/provinces that we intend to travel to, that don't allow it, so we are set on the Toyhauler vs. 5th/TT combination. Kind of glad we took a look at Toyhaulers more seriously because we found that for us and our usage, the pluses outweighed the minuses. If you could forward the DOT section, I'd like to take a look at it. Thanks!

Rules of the Road

State Towing Laws

 

[TFlewitt]

KZ Toyhauler

TF,



I guess you do need a bit more room. I bet 4 kids will take up some space on extended travels. With us it's just me, my wife, and our 2 German Shepherds. We actually use it quite a bit, but not on extended travels. Our work schedules don't allow for more than a week or so at a time. We just got back from South Dakota with it. This was the longest trip we have taken with it and it performed wonderfully. The floorplans offered and features/options available really give anyone looking at them a wide variety of ways to outfit it. Our dealer prefers to have the customers custom order them from the factory so they can get exactly what they want. This is what we did and KZ was all too willing to accommodate us.



They gave a lot of thought to every detail as far as placement and usage of each appliance or cabinet. The design is great, BUT, and we have found this with most RV's-the build quality is ok, but not great. In order to build it light enough and cheap enough, the walls are paper thin and some of the wood trim around the kitchen isn't that good. It is obvious that they did the best they could for that price and weight range, so I guess it's ok.



Had it in for a few minor warranty issues, but nothing a show stopper. The hot water knob flew off the sink one morning like Old Faithful. Water sprayed everywhere. The dealer had never heard of that happening before and replaced the whole faucet assembly on the spot. One other problem was a bad electical line in the bathroom that was shorting out and blowing the fuse. Overall, we love it. Taking it out this weekend. Just backed it into my driveway tonight to get it ready.



One bit of advice: read the options list carefully and select as much as your wallet will allow. There are a lot of great things they offer that you'll kick yourself later for not getting.



Good luck.

Ken, that is ironic you have a couple of Shepherds you travel with because although we don't have one now, we will be getting one in the near future (I grew up with a couple of GS) and this was another consideration of going toyhauler vs. double tow, and even the size of the garage itself. Now I think you might understand why we need the room, 4 kids, a GS, a bunch of "toys. "



That is interesting you evaluate the quality of your KZ as somewhat wanting. We are looking at the New Vision or Escalade, which are supposed to be a step and two above the Sportsman. Did you look at these models at all when you were shopping to compare the quality? If so, did you see a difference at all? Your caveat about options is interesting. These used coaches we found have all the options we would choose if we were to order new. The price is attractive and that is why we are thinking about modifying. Having already done it, what options or changes, if any, would you have made? Thanks!

 

[JCasper]

Over cab mount

Since these pictures were taken he has moved the rack back about 6 inches so it doesn't hang over the front quite so far.

 

[JCasper]

Over cab mount, more pics

Here are a few more

 

[TFlewitt]

Since these pictures were taken he has moved the rack back about 6 inches so it doesn't hang over the front quite so far.

Wow, this is very nice! Is this rack removable? How is it supported at the rear - is it frame mounted or to the bedrails? Where did he attach the front supports? Has he weighed the truck to determine his axle weights?

 

[JCasper]

Wow, this is very nice! Is this rack removable? How is it supported at the rear - is it frame mounted or to the bedrails? Where did he attach the front supports? Has he weighed the truck to determine his axle weights?

This is my friends dad's truck. I have never seen it in person, just the pictures.



I will be camping this weekend with my friend and I will ask him. He is in Seattle now for work, so I can't bug him.



I zoomed in on the pics and it looks like the rear supports extend below the bedrail so I would say it is frame mounted.



I believe it is removable, but I will find out for sure.

 

[SnoKing]

You can bet that the front axle is way overloaded, as most for only rated to 4800 lbs or so. 4x4 with a diesel is already over 4K. I think mine is 43xx lbs. SNOKING

 

[JCasper]

You can bet that the front axle is way overloaded, as most for only rated to 4800 lbs or so. 4x4 with a diesel is already over 4K. I think mine is 43xx lbs. SNOKING

I'm sure it is overloaded on the front axle. My Dodge weighs like 4,800 on the front axle.



I will try to find out some weights.

 

[surfbeetle]

So the side topic of double towing... so non commercial double towing is illegal in Texas but it seems that commerical doubles is okay. Just about all trucks in California are registered as commerical and I have a commercial Class A license with doubles and triples, I wonder if that makes it legal in Texas for me to pull a trailer behind my fifth wheel.

 

[steved]

I would look at two things (mainly because I don't know).



How are the frames constructed? Would it be feasible to weld 4-foot extensions to the existing frame? Do you have a solid frame to start with, you know, to tie into?? Most large trailers I have seen start witha stout toungue and frame to the axles, then change to a lighter frame/different frame design from there back.



And instead of moving the axles back, I'd leave them where they are. I'd just add another axle of similar capacity behind the existing axles. You get a safer towing rig in the end as long as the pin weight would be ok. And this is assuming the trailer is a tandem now, and not already a triaxle. If it were a triaxle, I'd simply move the front axle behind the other two... you are only adding 4 feet of length... how much would that actually affect your balance (how much of that would be loaded and how heavy would it be loaded)?



steved

 

[steved]

You can bet that the front axle is way overloaded, as most for only rated to 4800 lbs or so. 4x4 with a diesel is already over 4K. I think mine is 43xx lbs. SNOKING

Ehhhm just balance it out by placing the fifth wheel a little further back... :-laf



steved

 

[BDW]

A number of road law websites listed Texas as not allowing non-commercial double towing. Woodalls below said the opposite, so I called TxDOT and they confirmed that double towing is not legal. I then talked to their supervisor who also read me the section and confirmed it is not allowed. I'd be interested to know the section you are reading that seems to indicate it is legal, and I'll look at it on the web. There are still too many other states/provinces that we intend to travel to, that don't allow it, so we are set on the Toyhauler vs. 5th/TT combination. Kind of glad we took a look at Toyhaulers more seriously because we found that for us and our usage, the pluses outweighed the minuses. If you could forward the DOT section, I'd like to take a look at it. Thanks!

Rules of the Road

State Towing Laws

I did a search on the TxDOT web site and got into thier rules and regs. Did another search in the rules and regs and found a lot of results and just started reading from there. No promises but I will try it again and post it if I can figure out how. Did they say if this is something new? I see people towing TT's and Boats all the time. Something I havent seen in a while is a TT with a vehicle behind. I know its not the same for the farmers but I seen one yesterday with 5 trailers. Must have been more than 100' feet long!

 

[steved]

I did a search on the TxDOT web site and got into thier rules and regs. Did another search in the rules and regs and found a lot of results and just started reading from there. No promises but I will try it again and post it if I can figure out how. Did they say if this is something new? I see people towing TT's and Boats all the time. Something I havent seen in a while is a TT with a vehicle behind. I know its not the same for the farmers but I seen one yesterday with 5 trailers. Must have been more than 100' feet long!

Two things...



Didn't we discuss how RVs are exempted from a lot of regulations??



Did anyone ever think that those "doubles" just might not have gotten pulled over?? Yet...



steved

 

[tgordon]

Surfbettle, I would not encourage pushing that one with a DOT officer unless your whole rig has been inspected, you have a USDOT number etc. like a truly commercial rig would. That would be like getting into a ******* match with a guy who has a fire truck for backup:-{}



TF, I admire your determination, but another option would be a RV toy hauler. Of course that will run you a lot more $$$$, but then you could get a big trailer like the Holmes have and haul the trusty steed behind and have plunty of room without breaking any laws. The bonus is that when the kids get on your nerves you can lock them into the trailer in back and enjoy the peace a quite:-laf



Watch youw CGVW, a couple summers ago the campground hosts had an IH Low-Pro to pull their 5th wheel, they were over weight for a one ton and had to many friends get in trouble for being over weight and had to find another way to get their rigs off the side of the road.



Enjoy the extended vacation what ever way you end up going about it



Troy

 

[TFlewitt]

Double towing

I did a search on the TxDOT web site and got into thier rules and regs. Did another search in the rules and regs and found a lot of results and just started reading from there. No promises but I will try it again and post it if I can figure out how. Did they say if this is something new? I see people towing TT's and Boats all the time. Something I havent seen in a while is a TT with a vehicle behind. I know its not the same for the farmers but I seen one yesterday with 5 trailers. Must have been more than 100' feet long!

Hi Brian, just give the section of the TxDOT that you were reading when you posted above that it allowed double towing. You don't have to bother cut and pasting it if you don't know how. The TxDOT is accessible on the web so we can just read it there. You've piqued my curiousity with all these double tows you've been seeing. Perhaps I was just talking to a couple of incompetent TxDOT civil servants - naw, thats never happened before!!!