Lengthening Toy Hauler

[TFlewitt]

Lengthen Toyhauler

I would look at two things (mainly because I don't know).



How are the frames constructed? Would it be feasible to weld 4-foot extensions to the existing frame? Do you have a solid frame to start with, you know, to tie into?? Most large trailers I have seen start witha stout toungue and frame to the axles, then change to a lighter frame/different frame design from there back.



And instead of moving the axles back, I'd leave them where they are. I'd just add another axle of similar capacity behind the existing axles. You get a safer towing rig in the end as long as the pin weight would be ok. And this is assuming the trailer is a tandem now, and not already a triaxle. If it were a triaxle, I'd simply move the front axle behind the other two... you are only adding 4 feet of length... how much would that actually affect your balance (how much of that would be loaded and how heavy would it be loaded)?



steved

Steve, you are correct - the KZs have a large 10-12" I-beam main frame, then step down into the garage area on a smaller box or c-channel frame. That is why I said the frame would have to be extended and gussetted. Per the Engineering departments, when they extend the garage areas at the factory while building the coach, they move the axles back 1/2 the distance of the extension.



Admittedly, they said the axle placement in a Toyhauler was merely an educated guess (makes you feel really safe doesn't it?), but this is what they generally did when custom lengthening Toyhaulers. These particular models are tri-axles. And yes, this is the problem with Toyhaulers is that unloaded, you have a heavier pin weight vs. the same length conventional 5th, and then loaded, it may even be lighter than a conventional 5th. Obviously, Toyhaulers are more sensitive to load and weight distribution than a conventional 5th.

 

[icman95]

TF,

We knew about the upscale models that KZ offers, but the dealer didn't really carry any-maybe one-so we couldn't look at one prior to ordering. He told us that they were quite a bit more expensive and the differences were feature/luxury oriented, not function oriented, so we wouldn't really be missing much if we got the Sportsmen. We agreeded and got what we got. No regrets. He said that new the difference was about $15k. Too much for us.



Part of my caveat about options stems from the fact that the dealer told us that KZ even offers stuff that isn't really listed on the sales literature and you have to ask the dealer to call the factory to see if they'll do a particular thing. In our case, it came with a 6 gallon water heater and a 10 wasn't offered unless we went with a bigger trailer. They called the factory and KZ agreed to put in a 10, but of course, charging extra for it. Some of the stuff that is on the list you don't know you want until you ask the dealer what it is.



I know you're looking at used, but see if you can find one with the fold down couches in the garage. This gives you a nice sitting room when the toys aren't there and the couches can fold down into beds for extra sleeping space. KZ offers a folding table that fits right in between the couches and makes for a great lunch spot. There is a screen that covers the cargo bay when the door is down and turns the thing into a sun room.



If your toys require gasoline, they offer an on board fueling station. Highly recommended! It's a 30 gallon fuel tank under the garage with a fuel hose and electric pump on the side. I love it! We didn't get the bedroom slide out, just the living room. Possibly would change that if had to do over. Also, the front gets pelted with small pebbles from the tow vehicle. Wife and I were just talking about that last night. I believe they offered diamond plating for the front and we didn't get it. Probably should have.

 

[BDW]

Hi Brian, just give the section of the TxDOT that you were reading when you posted above that it allowed double towing. You don't have to bother cut and pasting it if you don't know how. The TxDOT is accessible on the web so we can just read it there. You've piqued my curiousity with all these double tows you've been seeing. Perhaps I was just talking to a couple of incompetent TxDOT civil servants - naw, thats never happened before!!!

I did some more digging after reading your post last night. I'm so confused now, I'm not sure if I can drive anything! some time in the past they have change the Licsense to a Classified Drivers Licsense or a Commercial Drivers licsense. According to thier handbook (the one given to a person seeking a licsense) a Classified DL class A (did I mention both have class A, B & C) can drive a vehicle or combination of vehicles over 26K lbs or any lower class B or C. Sounds a lot like a Commercial licsense dont it, Only you need a Commercial licsense to drive an 18 wheeler. On Friday night on my way from work there are usually several Hiway Potrol hanging out by the innerstate looking for drunk drivers leaving the clubs. I think I'll stop tonight and talk to one of them. The hand book can be found on the TxDOT web page. I have not found a direct way to access Texas laws but did manage to link in last night. I will try and find it again and post the link for you. I'll let you know what I find out from the state troopers.

 

[BDW]

Ok, for those who still interested in towing doubles thru Texas. It has been a real quest for an answer but, the State Troopers consider it illeagal. I have not been able to actually talk to one yet though I'm still trying. According to several different local city cops, there is nothing in the traffic code for Texas to keep you from pulling a TT with a boat behind it. They could not answer what you could be written a ticket for but stated the troopers concidered it against the law but didnt know what law. I will keep chasing it and keep you posted.

By the way, all of the cops I did talk to said they see people doing it all the time.

 

[surfbeetle]

I found the Texas Vehicle code online at

Transportation Code

If you go to SECTION 621. 205. MAXIMUM LENGTH OF VEHICLE COMBINATIONS

then you will find this:



§ 621. 205. MAXIMUM LENGTH OF VEHICLE COMBINATIONS. (a)

Except as provided by this section, a combination of not more than

three vehicles, including a truck and semitrailer, truck and

trailer, truck-tractor and semitrailer and trailer, or a

truck-tractor and two trailers, may be coupled together if the

combination of vehicles, other than a truck-tractor combination, is

not longer than 65 feet.

(b) A passenger car or another motor vehicle that has an

unloaded weight of less than 2,500 pounds may not be coupled with

more than one other vehicle or towing device at one time. This

subsection does not apply to the towing of a disabled vehicle to the

nearest intake place for repair.

(c) A motor vehicle, including a passenger car, that has an

unloaded weight of 2,500 pounds or more may be coupled with a towing

device and one other vehicle.

(d) In this section:

(1) "Passenger car" means a motor vehicle designed to

transport 10 or fewer persons simultaneously.

(2) "Towing device" means a device used to tow a

vehicle behind a motor vehicle by supporting one end of the towed

vehicle above the surface of the road and permitting the wheels at

the other end of the towed vehicle to remain in contact with the

road.





So now the question isn't whether Texas allows a Truck to tow a trailer which in turn is towing another trailer, but rather are our pickup trucks considered a "passenger car" or not.

 

[GAmes]

I have double towed in TX for years, and to my knowledge the legality has not changed. Any combo is allowed as long as the total length does not exceed 65 ft. I have seen pick-ups pulling jeeps pulling boats. Lots and lots of TTs and 5ers pulling boats. I once pulled my son in laws front wheel drive Olds on a car dolly hooked to my 5er (is that triple?) from Lubbock to Austin, right through DOT alley in Abilene.



To the original question, I have pulled a number of 40+ foot toyhaulers back to Indiana because of cracking in the sidewalls at the corners of the slideouts. I can't imagine another 4 feet of leverage on the frame. I'm sure that it could be done, given the time, tools, materials and MONEY, but I don't see an easily engineered or assembled project here. I envision the extra weight for the reinforcement steel, fiberglass walls, roof decking, etc would be a couple thousand pounds. If not equipped a third axle might take up that slack. Triple axles are easier to tow anyway, more stable and less pin weight.



I just pulled a 40 ft Forest River Sierra into SK. It was a bear to pull over the Rockies with my duelly empty, loaded it would be too much trailer for a 1 ton if used for extended travel and full timing. Good luck!

 

[ColoradoKing]

I wish the manufacturers would hurry up and make a toyhauler that had more of what people are asking for. Every year they get closer, but we're still a ways off.



Fivers are great for towing and living in, but are garage limited. Bumper pulls have more garage, but less living space and you're smelling fuel all night. I think in a couple years or so, we'll see decent sized garage options, so the need to remanufacture or otherwise come up with imaginative ways to increase toy storage may disappear.



I'd also like to see interior decor options. Right now all we get are; what my Grandparents would like, over-testosteroned black/red stuff, and utilitarian basic. Sorry for the rant. Best of luck with solving the garage problem.

 

[JCasper]

You can bet that the front axle is way overloaded, as most for only rated to 4800 lbs or so. 4x4 with a diesel is already over 4K. I think mine is 43xx lbs. SNOKING

Sorry it took so long.



The front axle weighs 6,500lbs when all loaded up and headed hunting or to arizona for the winter.



He knows he is overweight, but is very cautious at all times.



The front axle GVW is only like 4,600. It weighs about that much without any extra load.