Let down by Van Aaken

[Bunn]

Ok, so here is the deal. I purchased the VA boxes (duration and pressure) a few months ago and I've been happy as a clam. The middle settings on both boxes added tons of power, EGTs were manageable, and the fun factor was high. With the boxes on the high settings, my clutch would slip way to bad so I wouldn't ever use that position. Well, with the addition of a south bend OFE, the clutch can now handle the power of the high settings, and the EGTs are out of control! I can only get on the truck for a few seconds.



VA told me a while ago that a timing upgrade would be available soon for the box wich would help out EGTs. I just got an email from them today saying that a seperate timing box would be required, (software update is impossible) and that it won't be available for a while.



So the question is, can I stack these boxes with say a TST? or is the purchase of the VA boxes a waste of money?



Rob

 

[SRadke]

Stacking two duration boxes (as far as I know) has never been done. That would yield way too much duration. The TST does timing and duration which is what your after but the added pressure helps cool egt's just a little. Anybody know if the VA pressure box will stack with TST?



-Scott

 

[mattymac]

NO they wont stack together (TST/VA) If you want timing check into the Volumizer or the banks 6 gun, they are pressure/timing. That would be my guess but only if the VA plugs into the fuel pressure port on the fuel rail which I think that it doesnt, anyone else want to chime in?

 

[lmills]

The VA pressure box plugs in at the ECM on the side of the motor. It doesn't plug into the sensors like the EZ and bully dog boxes. Also, I know for a fact that the VA pressure box will not stack with a TST. It shuts the TST box down for some reason. I tried it on my 03

 

[Patriot_RAM]

More aid, bigger turbo. You can only add so much fuel without adding the air.

 

[DLeno]

Never stack boxes of the same type (i. e. duration with duration). see this bunch of verbiage for more detailed comments about stacking.



so if your goal is to add timing to the VA pressure/duration combo you will have to either find a timing only box (probably not gonna happen) or (2) ditch the VA pressure box in favor of a pressure/timing box.



yea, the TST will do timing only, but thats a waste (if you want timing and duration just use the TST by itself and ditch both VA boxes), and doesn't give you pressure.



Volumizer performs such a small amount of timing that you will not see any appreciable EGT benefit at those power levels. that leaves the Banks six gun with speed loader as the only viable pressure/timing box currently in active production that is shipping to customers. I haven't tried it yet, but I see no reason this wouldn't work stacked with the VA C3. 2, except to say that the Banks is VERY aggressive down low. When the speed loader kicks in, hang ON! have mercy that would be amazing with the C3. 2 which is very strong down low as well. Also, the Banks is a bit more complex install, requiring switched 12V, a thermocouple installed pre-turbo, and the box installs in the cab. You also have to give up your pre-turbo thermocople to the Banks speed loader. The Banks does perform EGT-based de-fueling so that might be a bonus. replace your EGT gauge with a Banks EGT gauge and then you can use the thermocouple to drive both the speed loader and the EGT gauge. the de-fueling would shut down the Banks but not the VA of course, so you really would not have protection -- only warning.



So the Banks stack is a viable option, in my opinion. Hasn't been tried, to my knowledge, but its available today. It might be more than you were hoping to spend on boxes though.



BTW, the VA C3. 1 pressure box, even though it physically attaches to the ECM, connects via wires to the same MAP and fuel pressure connections as other pressure boxes do.



You might contact Quadzilla -- they are working on a timing/pressure box and already gathering up beta testers. That would be a box that would mount under the hood and have a switchable power levels in the cab. should be a nice stack with the C3. 2



Your approach is correct -- that VA duration box needs timing and pressure to make it viable, in my opinion. Personally, I think a very nice combination would be the C3. 2 on 50HP stacked with a strong pressure/timing box of 100HP or less (nice upper end HP, pressure below 26,000 psi). yea, more pressure than duration. must be a shock to hear that from me, the conservative pressure guy.



keep in mind that you'll need more air as well -- and probably more fuel than the low pressure side is capable of. Timing won't completely solve the EGT problem. With that much fuel you're in new turbocharger territory.

 

[Bunn]

So let me translate these replys... I can ditch the VA duration for a TST or something similar that manipulates duration and timing OR add a bigger turbo because the addition of a timing box isn't going to help EGTs that much anyway.



I'm begining to think that I shouldn't have bought my truck and never ever joined the TDR. I love them both to death, but boy this is getting expensive.

 

[Blakers]

Bunn, for the power you are putting out, do you think any competitor's box could do any better at keeping the EGTs down? I don;t know the answer to that, but I know when you are pushing the limits of power you need to drive with the EGT gauge. That is how it was with my 12 valve 1995 with big injectors, big turbo housing and big plate in the pump - you could easily go past safe EGTs if you didn't keep an eye on the gauge and back off when needed. I don't know if there is a computer box out there that will allow you to drive without watching the EGTs, yet still get the power you are making.



Blake

 

[Blakers]

Boost elbow?

Are any of you guys running a boost elbow with the VA 3. 2C? If so, who's elbow and what are the results? Thanks.

 

[DLeno]

So let me translate these replys... I can ditch the VA duration for a TST or something similar that manipulates duration and timing OR add a bigger turbo because the addition of a timing box isn't going to help EGTs that much anyway.



I'm begining to think that I shouldn't have bought my truck and never ever joined the TDR. I love them both to death, but boy this is getting expensive.

I would just change OR to AND. the stock turbocharger is only good for about 50HP increase sustained, if that. If all you want is short term happiness (short accleration runs) and drive by the gauges, then you can get by with the stock turbo and additional fuel. But the TST box by itself is more than the stock turbo can handle.



But there are guys in the 400HP region that can sustain high power levels all day because they have a turbocharger that can provide the air. so yea, when you add more fuel you discover that there is very little margin in the stock huffer. I've been experimenting with all the boxes I can find, and not a one of them, with the possible exception of the VA pressure box (30 HP) can be used to its fullest extent with the stock charger. they all raise EGTs to unacceptable levels at sustained power levels.



If you want to be in the 350HP region you need to at least consider the Piers modified turbo. more than that and you need to consider a 400 HP turbo. The poor little HY-9 spits out hot air at high boost pressures because its out of its efficiency map and not designed for such an application. DD even recommends against the use of a boost elbow, although that WILL give you a small amount of additional air in the form of higher boost. But some experiments at DD, so I am told, show that the benefit of the boost elbow is small at best. TST has done some work in the boost elbow department and they believe they have maximized the potential of the stock turbo with their elbow. But still, there is just not that much margin in the stock huffer

 

[Bunn]

Thanks for all the insight... I guess my next question is, what is a good turbo to go with? I remember reading a while back that nobody has developed a good turbo for the 3rd gens. Is this still the case?

 

[jcarey]

Do a search for HTTurbo or HTB2. Some TDR members have beta tested some of the newer models. Apparently one will handle the power of the TST with a single turbo.



Here's there web site: http://www.htturbo.com/



Also, give them a call. Others have said that they are very helpful and knowledgeable.



Jim

 

[DLeno]

It is my sense that a number of companies are working on the problem in varioius forms. htt and DD both have solutions today and both require a different intake system and I think exhaust downpipe because of the geometries. the htt appears to be the only one claiming capability with yesterdays (aggressive) TST box, and very high HP levels with a single. there are other solutions as well if you are going to allow different geometries for the intake and exhaust. There is a version of the B1 that is bolt on factory compatible on both ends, although there have been some availability questions and I don't know the current status. the aggressive TST eats it for lunch (tremendous low end fuel) but less aggressive boxes and/or injector/box combos appear to work good and folks are happy. I have also read that the TST box also eats the DD jammer turbo, but (again) that box aside, the DD solution (proprietary intake box) works very well in the 400HP region.



I think there are some other bolt-on solutions in the works. BD I know is just about ready to release a 425 HP single that uses the factory intake geometry (meaning any after market box such as AFE, AirRaid, etc. will work) bolts up to the stock manifold, and requires a different downpipe (something you would probably replace anyway on the 03-04, since the stock pipe is 3. 5").



ATS has turbos available today as well, 4000 series and 5000 series, and are working on new stuff all the time. you'll probably see a manifold/turbo combo coming from them soon.



Twins are available today as well.

 

[bpenrod]

Are any of you guys running a boost elbow with the VA 3. 2C? If so, who's elbow and what are the results? Thanks.

Blakers,

I had the EZ with their elbow installed before I put the VA 3. 2C on so I just left it. On the 50% setting everything works perfect, I consistently hit 32 to 34 #'s boost. If I turn the VA up it fuels faster than the wastegate can open and the boost spikes up past 40#'s!

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

I have a Bullydog pressure/timing box available if anyone is interested. Two power levels and OFF setting selectable on-the-fly. Timing gave me close to 1 mpg improvement.



Vaughn MacKenzie