Letter that ATS sent to the EPA, Boycott ATS - Thread Moved

[TDRadmin]

I just moved the thread, Letter that ATS sent to the EPA, Boycott ATS. No one asked me to move it, but it appears to have information in it that was priviledged and which should not have been made public. It also appears that the letter was never requested, approved or sent by ATS, so leaving it posted is simply wrong.



Please understand why I took this action. Email or call me with your concerns.



Thank you for your understanding.



Robin

TDR Admin

 

[Coalsmoke]

Hi Robin, where has the thread been moved too, or has it been deleted? This type of information, whether good or bad about a vendor, should be kept public. I can understand from the admin perspective why you wouldn't want the information up, being that ATS is a paid advertiser, but on the same token, respect that the members here are intelligent enough to draw their own conclusions. To date, I have not seen a decent rebuttal on the TDR from ATS. However, if they are concerned enough with this to change our minds, then allow them to buy a membership like the rest of us and fill us in. However, please don't ask us to stick our heads in the sand on something like this and expect us to passively ignore these types of vendor critical posts.

respectfully,
CS

 

[DBraunig]

Hi Robin, where has the thread been moved too, or has it been deleted? This type of information, whether good or bad about a vendor, should be kept public. I can understand from the admin perspective why you wouldn't want the information up, being that ATS is a paid advertiser, but on the same token, respect that the members here are intelligent enough to draw their own conclusions. To date, I have not seen a decent rebuttal on the TDR from ATS. However, if they are concerned enough with this to change our minds, then allow them to buy a membership like the rest of us and fill us in. However, please don't ask us to stick our heads in the sand on something like this and expect us to passively ignore these types of vendor critical posts.



respectfully,

CS

Well said, I feel the same way.



Dave

 

[TDRadmin]

Moderators Forum

I moved the thread out of the public website, but I did not delete it.



ATS did not request this action. Nor did anyone else. And my action had nothing to do with their being a TDR advertiser. The thread was brought to my attention by Steve, our webmaster as a simple FYI.



Here is my rationale. ATS did not request the letter to be written. ATS did not write the letter. ATS did not mail the letter. When the letter was brought to their attention, they requested it be destroyed. It was drafted by a contractor of theirs. Further, it appears that the letter may have been stolen from an email account.



How would any one of you feel if your email was hacked and correspondance stolen then published in a public forum, especially when that correspondance was not requested by you, not approved by you, and not mailed by you?



My source was a post that was made on that thread. ATS did post a response. But leaving stolen correspondance in a public forum just seems wrong to me.



I would do the same for any of you if a TDR Member posted information or correspondance which had been stolen from you. In my opinion, that is not only the right thing to do, it is the only thing to do.



I hope this helps to explain the situation and my actions.



Robin

TDR Admin

 

[LBARTLETT]

Robin, I agree with your decision, many others didn't think this email could have been or was hacked however, we all saw it happen to Sara Palin, we used to have in excess of 6,000 hits per day with people trying to get into the server where I used to work, our Dept. of Defense computers have been hacked, identity theft happens all of the time, anyway, I agree with your decision, email can be hacked and if that's what they say happened I'll believe them (as I would anyone else) until shown differently



p. s. still don't have any ATS parts on my truck

 

[jimnance]

You know, I think ATS did the right thing by owning up to the existance of the draft. They could have simply said it was bogus. While I question the entire explaination they presented, I think the fact that the message was hacked is reason enough to remove it from the forum. I agree with you.

 

[Coalsmoke]

So can anyone still access this "moved" thread? I found the redirect but it tells me I don't have permission to access the page. I try to stay on the TDR and keep the info here as much as possible, which is why I'm asking.

 

[RAndrae]

Hacked and stolen???? LOL LOL LOL LOLL LOOLLLOL LOL LOL LOL LOL what BS

 

[RVTRKN]

Not that I'm taking sides because I like to give the benefit of doubt but, if they admitted it was hacked and stolen, then it is proof they wrote it.

 

[TDRadmin]

Access

No, only Administrators have access to that thread now, Coalsmoke.



Robin

TDR Admin

 

[SHobbs]

This is one of those things where we may never know the truth. I am curious though as why the letter was written in the first place. If I had done something like this I would have deleted the letter and never have saved it. Again, we may never know. Whatever the case the damage has been done.

 

[Coalsmoke]

Yes it certainly has been and lots of credibility has been lost over this in multiple places.

 

[Jaysyl]

No, only Administrators have access to that thread now, Coalsmoke.



Robin

TDR Admin

So in other words it has been deleted. If members can read it, it has been deleted. Am I wrong???

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Covering up a pile of crap with a pretty napkin may hide it from view - but the SMELL still lingers on...

 

[Coalsmoke]

Covering up a pile of crap with a pretty napkin may hide it from view - but the SMELL still lingers on...

Well said.

 

[Allnew2Me]

I think that this issue has put Robin in a tough spot, between an advertiser and the members of the TDR. Perhaps the best path would have been to just close the thread as is done when things start to go south. To delete it entirely, especially without access when it was a rather heated discussion gives the impression that sides were taken when in fact that may not be the case. A closed thread tends to fade away rather than create a storm.

 

[JimB1]

This entire senario continues to follow "leaked information" strategy.



Leak information.



Deny leak.



Imply serious retribution against leaker.



Then be completely silent while many good people voluntarily or involuntarily become involved with "polishing the turd".



Issue gets continued mileage without lifting a finger.



Classic ju-jit-su.

 

[JR2]

Just go to one of the other bajillion diesel websites and read all about it. Plan to spend some time, at CompD there are like 20+ pages, one of the other forums has 40+ pages.

It comes down to this.

The guy who wrote it was the General Manager of ATS. Stewart something or other. He is also there lawyer.
ATS owner, whats his name, said the letter was not going out.
Someone swiped it out of his email, he shares his password with every one of ATS's upper management (according to the ATS IT Guy).

So to sum it up. ATS general manager wrote a letter that was going to throw all there competition under a bus for selling DPF delete kits.
They did not send the letter but the guy who sent it out thought the world should know what ATS considered doing.
So now we have a huge stink about a letter that was never sent (according to ATS) and a mystery man (who actually may not be a mystery to everyone involved) who stole it. I think the guy is a hero for doing it, to have the GM of ATS even consider sending that letter is just unbelievable. There business must be in the dumps to consider such a back handed way to get rid of there competition.

 

[DBraunig]

Just go to one of the other bajillion diesel websites and read all about it. Plan to spend some time, at CompD there are like 20+ pages, one of the other forums has 40+ pages.



It comes down to this.



The guy who wrote it was the General Manager of ATS. Stewart something or other. He is also there lawyer.

ATS owner, whats his name, said the letter was not going out.

Someone swiped it out of his email, he shares his password with every one of ATS's upper management (according to the ATS IT Guy).



So to sum it up. ATS general manager wrote a letter that was going to throw all there competition under a bus for selling DPF delete kits.

They did not send the letter but the guy who sent it out thought the world should know what ATS considered doing.

So now we have a huge stink about a letter that was never sent (according to ATS) and a mystery man (who actually may not be a mystery to everyone involved) who stole it. I think the guy is a hero for doing it, to have the GM of ATS even consider sending that letter is just unbelievable. There business must be in the dumps to consider such a back handed way to get rid of there competition.

That's not what disturbs me here. I pay membership to TDR, only to be censored on info, as if i am not able to come to my own conclusions when given versions of the same story. It bothers me that I have to go to one of the other bazillion websites, that bothers me.



Dave

 

[fox]

Maybe we should post the letter, and then allow 1 response from ATS. Anyone can read it but no responses.