Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Lift pump answers from DC

[Rob Thomas]

Sent one in also, awaiting they're reply.



Pitbull, it's a comfort to know DC cares, sigh... ..... big business, are they all the same? I'd much rather do business with the little guys. It's too bad we are forced to buy from a handful of auto companies who couldn't possibly care any less about the consumer.



Rob

 

[JCyrbok]

My sorry excuse for a reply from DC!

Got my reply today and even though I asked for a non-bolierplate form letter reply, guess what I got? (also I was able to get what I sent to them in on the tail end of their reply too,let me know if I should add anything else to the follow up letter i plan. )



Dear Jason:



Thank you for contacting DaimlerChrysler regarding your '01 Dodge Ram

2500.



One way we have of being able to gauge what kind of problems our customers are having is through correspondence from customers such as yourself. We're pleased you have taken both the time and effort to express your concerns to us.



We will document your comments and forward them to both our Customer Advocate Group as well as Product Planning.



Thanks again for contacting us.



NOTE: Please do not use the 'Reply' function of your email system. If you have a need to respond to this message, please visit us at our replyform (link provided below). Our system is NOT able to accept any emails

at this address.



For any future communications related to this email, please refer to thefollowing information:

REFERENCE NUMBER: 11361116

REPLY LINKhttp://www.chrysler.com/wccsapp/wccs/brand_forms/us/reply. jsp?trk_ID=KMM180241C0KM&



Sincerely,



Michael Fairo

Senior Staff Representative

DaimlerChrysler Customer Assistance Center





Original Message Follows:

------------------------

Form Selected:

--------------

Category: US Customer Service

Brief Description:

------------------

Lift Pump failures on Dodge Ram/Cummins Diesels

Comments:

---------

Please reference #11355707 for this email. I own a 2001 Dodge 2500 with theCummins Diesel engine. My main reason for purchasing the $4000+ option (engine) was for reliability and longevity, which is why I am very dismayed by the lift pump and/or pump location for this application. There is a very disportionate number of lift pump failures that have lead to people being stranded on the side of the road,more costly repairs if the injection pump is damaged due to the failure and could also lead to a very real safety problem, if the failure occured while towing.



My feeling is that the choice of the Carter lift pump is not the problem. The problem is the mounting location for the lift pump. These type of pumps are much better at pushing the fuel than pulling it. I believe that Carter requires, as a spec for

this pump, that it not be located more than 3 ft from the fuel source.



On my truck, which is a short bed quad cab 4x4, the distance is more like 8 feet, which is clearly out of spec for the pump. I would have to imagine that if I were to install a part on my truck and that it was installed out of Chrysler's spec (whether a Mopar part or not) that I would be denied Warranty service on that part or any other effected by it. Correct?



I have 26K miles on a truck that I plan on keeping until at least 500K miles and My lift pump is rapidly on the way out. It is ashame that I have to carry a spare pump, because I can not afford to be stranded or have my truck down at the dealer for several days.



It is also ashame that NONE of the 4 "Five Star Dealers" that I have contacted about this problem could give me any reliable answers about what my fuel pressure should be. Four different

dealers--four different answers.



SO with this I challenge the Daimler-Chrysler Corporate to build a better mouse trap and fix the problems, or at very least provide owners with information reference what to do about Chryslers engineering mistake on this one.



Your company came very close to builing the perfect truck and it is ashame that a $150 pump that can be installed in about 1/2 hour is what is keeping it from being perfect.



PS I am one of 16000+ Turbo Diesel Register members concerned

with this problem and this e-mail will also be provided to the TDR for dissemination. Also I would prefer a personal e-mail reply to this e-mail, not a computer generated, boiler plate reply.



Sincerly

Jason Cyrbok

TDR member.

-- email address removed --



Sender Information:

-------------------





Maybe hundreds of Cummins in the parking lot of Chrysler HQ in Auburn Hills would get a better response. We could all claim broken pumps and change them out in the lot next to all the Bimmers and Benz's



LOL



J-

 

[Scrappy]

letter to DC

I sent one too, and am still awaiting a reply.

 

[Sregorb]

Now we're off to a good start. 18 so far. I have:

Sregorb

Pit Bull

Scott Rosendahl

rashwor

Diesel Gunner

jcbrown

JCyrbok

Shortshift

Edward

Trexroat

DBeatty

Ncostello

jjohn

dgvg81

RThompson

sticks

Rob Thomas

jvanwaardhuizen



If you sent a letter/email to DC and aren't shown please lemme know so I can add ya so we have an accurate count. I'm sure there still are plenty more to go also so keep them coming, the more the better



Brian Rogers

 

[GeneralMachine]

DC Letter

I too sent one Harv

 

[Diesel Gunner]

DC's Reply

Well, this one starts out sounding like an actual person wrote it! Then, it turns into a sales presentation.



Dear Paul:



Thank you for the recent e-mail regarding recent repairs to your 2001

Dodge Ram 2500.



I am very appreciative that you have shared your story with me. You

brought up a lot of good points. Please continue to inform me about your

Dodge product. Your satisfaction is our desire.



I see by your records that you are still eligible to purchase a

DaimlerChrysler Service Contract.



If you want the best in extended coverage for your vehicle, consider a

DaimlerChrysler Service Contract. DaimlerChrysler Service Contracts

have a wide variety of plans to suit your needs. Whether it's a

roadside assistance, trip interruption or just the security of knowing

your vehicle is covered after the manufacturer's warranty, there is a

DaimlerChrysler Service Contract that is right for you.



All Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep vehicles are eligible within 4 years or

48,000 miles of purchase. Your DaimlerChrysler Dealer can give you full

details on plans and pricing. You can also visit our website at http://www.servicecontracts.chrysler.com

for more information, or click on the link below to request a brochure.





www.servicecontracts.chrysler.com/getabrochure.html.



If you have further questions or you would like a quote, please contact

DaimlerChrysler Service Contracts Enrollment Headquarters directly at

1-800-442-2666.



Thank you.



NOTE: Please do not use the 'Reply' function of your email system. If

you have a need to respond to this message, please visit us at our reply

form (link provided below). Our system is NOT able to accept any emails

at this address.



For any future communications related to this email, please refer to the

following information:

REFERENCE NUMBER: 11360970

REPLY LINK: http://www.chrysler.com/wccsapp/wccs/brand_forms/us/reply.jsp?trk_ID=KMM179612C0KM&



Sincerely,



Robert Clark

Senior Staff Representative

DaimlerChrysler Customer Assistance Center

 

[Pit Bull]

Looks like thsy have a variety of form letter responses

 

[swampfox]

Guys, I think you're batting your heads against a brick wall.

Here's why... . the lift pump has to be by the engine or in the tank itself... . why?..... lawyers... . remember the Ford Pinto. It also has to be electric... . why?..... cost. electric is cheaper..... thats why virtually every car now made has an electric fuel pump. Dodge will continue to use the current system because its cheaper even with paying for warranty work. The solution will probably have come from one of the aftermarket suppliers. One possibility is for someone to come up with an idiot light system that is cheap and easy to install that would warn of low fuel pressure. I'll bet Dodge could incorporate that into the engine computer.

 

[Sticks]

If they are computer generated, once we hit the red flag mark of key words (lift pump & failure) a live person will start reading them and take note. We probably need at least 1000 nasty grams to hit them. We have the membership, we just need the involvement.



I am going to send a written letter to them in addition to my e-mail in the next week. I will try to find an address that will bypass the customer service (as it is probably an outsourced business). If I can get it to land on the big-wig's desk, all the better.



This thread has been viewed 2267 times as of this post, and only 19ish letters sent?!?!



SOAP BOX TIME!



Come on everyone. You pay $35 a year for the best information available on the market for your CTD's. To me, this is the best $35 I have ever spent, and has saved me thousands. Time to pay a little back. Spend 15 minutes and write a letter to DC about this damn LP issue.



Yes, we can make a difference. This is not a political thing, where I preach about voting. This is CTD owners VS the DC Corp-rats on a known issue, that they refuse to acknowledge.



Chances are that you will have a LP failure, and if you don't watch it, it will eat your very expensive VP44. When you are out of warranty for whatever reason (1000 miles with BOMBs or 100,001 miles and bone stock), that is not the time to gripe to the service manager about the LP, as you are writing the $2000 check for repairs.



All fuel pumps fail. Ours just fail prematurely, and without warning if they are not watched.



Or would you rather keep forking out the time and $$$ to keep replacing a LP, than write the letter? Yeah, you may end up doing both, but when this changes DC's attitude in this, we may get a fix at their expense. At the very least, the '04's will be done right, and they will have the only truck on the market that does not heed to have anything done but fluid changes.



Thank you for your time



Next.

 

[Hohn]

I agree that we are probably beating our heads against a wall here, at least by doing things via email.



I think what we need to do is get a lawyer to contact them. That's the only language these big corporations listen to.



Furthermore, I think written letters to regional guys are better then emails.



I think that the more convenient it is for us to write, the more convenient it is for them to send a computer generated form letter back to us. This isn't going to take a couple letters- it's going to take a crusade.



This is going to take some old-fashioned letter writing to people in positions of authority. I personally would start with Carter (fed-mogul). Knowingly selling a part for an application that is out-of-spec could incur liability on their part-- kinda like the bartender that knowingly sells to a drunk guy.



I will start my letter writing today-- i need to get some addresses.



HOHN

 

[Billy Diesel]

I took the original letter and manipulated it to better suit my needs. A few things I added were:



All aforementioned ref #'s.

Names of all DC represenatives who have been contaced and responded

Costs of replacing.

And I also changed the worded to make the lift pump an acknowledged problem.



Hope this works.



BTW, I emailed the letter, and will be sending it to every DC person I can think of, including my local dealer.

 

[Hohn]

Ref#11355707

Dear Sirs:

The fuel delivery system on my 2002 Dodge Ram Cummins Diesel is improperly designed and has required significant out-of pocket expense for me install the necessary gauges and equipment to monitor the fuel pressure delivered to the injection pump. Moreover, there is NOTHING I can do to prevent the failure of the fuel tranfer (lift) pump, I can only wait for it to happen. My other option is to redesign the fuel delivery system myself, using components properly while incurring still greater out-of-pocket costs. My third option is to realize that Daimler Chrysler does NOT care about its customers and avoid DC products in the future.



None of this would be necessary if DaimlerChrysler would ensure that the the system is properly designed utilizing a transfer pump location that does not require the pump to "lift" or "suck" or fuel from the tank, nor does it subject the pump to the considerable vibration of the diesel engine.



I am a member of the TurboDieselRegistry- the leading Cummins Dodge owner's association. With over 16,000 members, we collectively represent a most knowledgeable and influential group of diesel pickup buyers. It is that knowledge that led to the purchase of the Cummins Dodge in the first place-- the Cummins engine has no equal. Our membership conducts and organizes nationwide rallies, publishes a quarterly journal, and conducts significant research on the Cummins Dodge truck. Members campaign Cummins Dodge trucks in national truck pulls, exhibitions, and drag races. Member research has led to a tripling of the power output of the Cummins engine in certain Dodge trucks and spawned an aftermarket for Cummins Dodge trucks that is experiencing explosive growth. We represent the very inmost core of the opinion leadership in the diesel pickup enthusiast market.



Members have independently researched the lift pumps on our Dodge Trucks and demonstrated that their failure is the leading cause of injection pump failure, low power, and unreliability. The fuel transfer pump alone is either directly or indirectly responsibile for more engine reliability complaints that any other cause!



Worse, the problem is easily remedied and low-cost. It is a shame that the Dodge brand, the Cummins name, and the image of Daimler Chrysler are allowed to be degraded by the improper use of a $150 pump. I would value these marques more highly than that.



Justin Hohn







Yes, I sent one viam email the Web anyway.....



EDIT: oops, I guess it's turbodiesel Register, not registry. DOH

 

[robobx]

sent one



will never do any good on existing trucks. can't admit there is a problem or they may have to fix them all, even the non failed ones

 

[100 Proof]

I sent mine in.



BTW, I just got my new 2500 yesterday and this is my first post to this forum.



100 Proof

 

[Sticks]

Almost computer generated

Got my bogus reply



Time to get out the paper and pen!

Dear Dan,

Thank you for contacting DaimlerChrysler regarding your 2002 Dodge Ram 3500 and your lift pump failures.



One way we have of being able to gauge what kind of problems our customers are having is through correspondence from customers such as yourself. We're pleased you have taken both the time and effort to yourself.



We will document your comments and forward them to both our Customer Advocate Group as well as Product Planning.



Thanks again for contacting us.





NOTE: Please do not use the 'Reply' function of your email system. If you have a need to respond to this message, please visit us at our reply form (link provided below). Our system is NOT able to accept any emails at this address.



For any future communications related to this email, please refer to the following information:

REFERENCE NUMBER: 11364894

REPLY LINK: http://www.chrysler.com/wccsapp/wccs/brand_forms/us/reply.jsp?trk_ID=KMM183111C0KM&

 

[JCyrbok]

more support from outside the TDR

Hey Sticks, Check out the reply that I got, I cut and paisted it in a previous post in this thread. Other that our names and truck models the replies are WORD FOR WORD VERBATUM! LMAO, do they think that we dont communicate with eachother or that we are stupid or both?



On a postive note I got an e-mail today from a guy who is a member of Dieselam.com. He must have been checking our site out and saw this thread. Coincidently his truck is in the shop for... ... ... ... you guessed a LP. He advised that after seeing our thread he sent his own e-mail to DC and is starting a similar thread/campaign on DieselRam.com. I also urged him to consider joining the TDR and to have as many of his friends join too.



Anyone been on or is a member of DieselRam.com? How is it?



Maybe we can annoy them into doing something if they dont want to do it because it is the right thing to do.



J-

 

[Scrappy]

DC reply

GOt my reply today, Just another form letter! My Ref# is: 11364941. WE need to keep this going if we want something to happen !

 

[Edward]

If you want Chrysler to take notice how about sending letters to Congress. We need to find out who the chairpersons are of the oversight committees (house and senate) that are responsible for the government agency who can force a recall. If we could get the chairs of these oversight committees to send a letter to Chrysler and Cummins I bet they would get a real answer and not a kiss off form letter. Any elected official, that is if they like getting reelected should notice a group such as the TDR with the numbers in its membership. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.



Edward

 

[illflem]

This is the place to complain if you want to force a recall -

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

Remember recalls are only for problems can cause a safety concern, if you don't say something about a safety issue in your complaint it will be ignored.

Keep your complaint short or it's likely it won't be read, they don't want to know why the lift pump fails, just that it does.

 

[robobx]

antoher form responce to me too...



"*****AUTOMATED RESPONSE - DO NOT REPLY TO THIS ADDRESS *****



Thank you for your email inquiry. Your question has been sent to the

DaimlerChrysler Customer Assistance Center in order to provide the best

answer for your Chrysler, Dodge, or Jeep question. Every effort will be

made to respond to your email within 3 business days. "



REF #11366948