Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Lift pump answers from DC

[MCrossley]

you guys are barking up the wrong tree, if you want chryslers attention these e-mails need to be sent directly to the CEo all at the same time. Trust me I have dealt with many problmes on many forums and I have found that working up the latter is the wrong approcah let the top of the ladder ask the poeple below why they are not doing their job, much more efective. I sqeaked enough to my local dealer and guess what they fixed my steering issues so it does pay to be persistant. Also anyone thought of having 7 on your side or anyone like that do any investigating? However I will be adding aletter to your list just for the fun of it.

 

[Pit Bull]

If you have the CEO's email address I would be happy to also write to him

 

[Sregorb]

I just spoke with both of our two dealership's service managers. We're all working the issue, and moving up the chain.



Must... have... participation... . from... affected... . people!



We're pushing to have a headquarters rep designated as the project manager to take this issue through to closure. A single point-of-contact for all these emails/letters/experiences to go to for advocacy.



I'll post more when I know.

ps. one of the questions I'll pose is what is the contact info for the CEO also.....



Brian



Attention Guests "lurkers"

pps. If you are a lurker and are reading this and have had a lift pump experience or are concerned about the design and you aren't interested in becoming a member of the TDR (I don't know why anyone would ever NOT want to be, the magazine, the members only areas, etc,etc), just email -- email address removed -- and I'll transpose them here or even just let me know you sent a letter off to DC. Anything to get an accurate count of this failure metric!

 

[DHawthorne]

Here's a Dodge Service Story for you. My sons Father in law just returned to Tampa Fl after a 3 month road trip with his 5fer. The truck was acting strange. He called me, from my sons house describing the problem. His description and the lack of a number being thrown out and the engine light not being on, led me to believe it was the lift pump. (65,000 miles)



He took it to the Dodge Dealer in Brandon Florida. The truck is a 2000 3500. The Service dept could not find anything wrong with the truck. He departed and one mile from the dealer the truck died. They came and got it, still could not find anything. They checked the fuel pressure and said it was ok. No answer when asked "did you check it at WOT" This problem has been intermittent for the last two weeks toward the end of their trip.



He made it to Ocala, Fl and will have Southeast Power "Cummins"

look at it.



Dave

 

[Amianthus]

I've given up on DC technical "expertese".

I know this is gonna be long and is not directly related to the topic of discussion, but it does show how DC responds to technical matters. I will discuss why I think we're on our own at the end of this post.



Post 1:

*****AUTOMATED RESPONSE - DO NOT REPLY TO THIS ADDRESS *****



Thank you for your email inquiry. Your question has been sent to the DaimlerChrysler Customer Assistance Center in order to provide the best answer for your Chrysler, Dodge, or Jeep question. Every effort will be made to respond to your email within 3 business days.



While waiting for our response, feel free to visit our brand web sites at http://www.chrysler.com, http://www.dodge.com or http://www.jeep.com. The "HELP" button on the top navigation bar provides a search feature, which may provide the information you have requested.



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For ALL future communications (related to this email), please refer to the following information:



REFERENCE NUMBER: 10497847



TICKET (Tracking) NUMBER: 1842877 ----- Aron Howlett Wrote ----- Form Selected:

--------------

Category: US Customer Service

Brief Description:

------------------

Problem with PTO function on 1999 Ram CTD 2500 QC.

Comments:

---------

I have added an air compressor as a PTO accessory to my 1999 CTD Ram 2500. I would like to use the PTO function of the ECM to increase the speed of the engine to 1500 RPM. I know that this is possible. Please do not reply that the PTO function disables certain OBDII functions... , as I already have a service manual and can read it just fine. Also, do not respond with a see your dealer comment, as my magnificent dealer (and I truly do mean they are wonderful) is getting little to no support from STAR on this. I would like a contact from a person at Dodge or STAR with the technical expertese to assist me with the use of this function in my ECM. Or at least to provide some direction so that my dealer will not have to waste his time any more trying to get an answer to this. Thank you. Sincerely, Aron Howlett

Reply:

Dear Aron:



Thank you for your e-mail to DaimlerChrysler Motors Corporation regarding your 1999 Dodge Ram 2500.



Your vehicle was designed to operate with the equipment installed at the factory. We would not recommend that you change this equipment. Although we are unable to provide a more favorable response we appreciate your e-mail.



Thank you again for your e-mail.

NOTE: Please do not use the 'Reply' function of your email. If you have a need to respond to this, please visit us at our reply form (link provided below). Our system is NOT able to accept any emails at this address.

For any future communications related to this email, please refer to the following information:

REFERENCE NUMBER: 10497847

TICKET (Tracking) NUMBER: 1842877

REPLY LINK: http://www.chrysler.com/wccs/brand_...egory=U&ticket_id=1842877&reference=10497847&



Sincerely,



Lynn Beck

Senior Staff Representative

DaimlerChrysler Customer Assistance Center

Reply 2:

Dear Aron:



By the way, based on the mileage you've reported, your vehicle may be due for scheduled maintenance.



Are you aware of the maintenance schedules recommended for your vehicle? If you'd like to learn more about them, simply reply to this email by clicking on the reply link below. I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have about maintenance on your Ram.



Thanks again for the email.

NOTE: Please do not use the 'Reply' function of your email. If you have a need to respond to this, please visit us at our reply form (link provided below). Our system is NOT able to accept any emails at this address.

For any future communications related to this email, please refer to the following information:

REFERENCE NUMBER: 10497847

TICKET (Tracking) NUMBER: 1842877

REPLY LINK: http://www.chrysler.com/wccs/brand_...egory=U&ticket_id=1842877&reference=10497847&



Sincerely,



Lynn Beck

Senior Staff Representative

DaimlerChrysler Customer Assistance Center

My reply:

------- Original Message --------

From: -- email address removed --

Date: 10/02/02 14:36:06





Reply Comments:

---------------

In response to the information you sent me regarding the addition of a PTO component to my truck, this stuff comes from the factory that way! Idle control of the engine through the ECM, yup! PTO attachment points, it comes with three of them! I am not changing anything!!! Please, answer my original question. How can my dealer set (program )the ECM so that when the PTO is engaged, it sets the engine RPM to the desired governed speed (1500 RPM) so that I can use the PTO? If you cannot answer this question (I propose that an answer is not in your database), please have someone that has the technical knowledge and information to adequately answer this. Thank you. Aron Howlett

Reference Number: 10497847

Ticket ID: 1842877

Submit Time: 2002-10-02 02:20:22

Final response from DC:

Dear Aron,



Thank you for your reply.



Unfortunately, this is not a technical site. We recommend you continue to work with your DaimlerChrysler dealership. DaimlerChrysler dealerships have the factory training, equipment and information available to them to diagnose and correct problems with DaimlerChrysler Motors Corporation vehicles. We are confident that this concern is not beyond their capabilities. Should your dealer require factory assistance, it is available through our zone office.



Thank you again for your e-mail.

NOTE: Please do not use the 'Reply' function of your email. If you have a need to respond to this, please visit us at our reply form (link provided below). Our system is NOT able to accept any emails at this address.

For any future communications related to this email, please refer to the following information:

REFERENCE NUMBER: 10497847

TICKET (Tracking) NUMBER: 1842877

REPLY LINK: http://www.chrysler.com/wccs/brand_...egory=U&ticket_id=1842877&reference=10497847&



Sincerely,



Lynn Beck

Senior Staff Representative

DaimlerChrysler Customer Assistance Center

As you can see, asking them for information is a complete waste of time. I have called STAR myself, and "idiots" doesn't do them justice. STAR is a subcontracted company that is hired by DC to do one thing. Limit warranty exposure. They have no technical expertese whatsoever. We WILL NOT be given direct access to the personnel that have the technical knowledge at DC to correct any problem we may have. So we are left on our own. Once DC starts to hemmorage a bit from the loss of VP's and LP's, then STAR may report it and DC may design it differently. But it's obvious that DC hasn't reached the threashold of pain on this matter. Not to mention, we have a discontinued model of truck. Most, if not all, support for this truck is going to disappear. Reason being that DC doesn't want to pay to keep people up on old technology. And if your truck just isn't working like it should and you're out of warranty, buy another one. That's the philosophy of marketing for profit.



It all boils down to this. Write all the emails and letters you want, DC won't give you the time of day. Guys, when it comes to LP's and VP's, we're screwed.

 

[Pit Bull]

Re: I've given up on DC technical "expertese".

Originally posted by Amianthus



Once DC starts to hemmorage a bit from the loss of VP's and LP's, then STAR may report it and DC may design it differently. But it's obvious that DC hasn't reached the threashold of pain on this matter.

I agree with you 100%. Follow the money

 

[mongoose]

i sent one to DC

 

[Rockcrusher]

It's obvious DC is not interested in the problem or responding to it. Blasting them with letters/email is a good idea and needs to go all the way up the coorperate ladder.

Maybe we need to get one of those "TV Trouble shooters" in the act. No business likes getting the business on TV.

How about the Attorney General of the U. S. . Some one mentioned class action suite.

 

[Rockcrusher]

I sent email to "Dodge customer Service" regarding lack of response to letter.

 

[Tomscreek]

I didn't read through all the posts here but I thought I recently read in one of the TDR publications an article about the lift pumps and how even if the lift pump fails entirely, the engine will run fine without it. ?????

 

[Amianthus]

It may run fine for a while, but in short order (I'd venture within 3,000 miles) your VP is cooked. If it runs at all. This is not a situation you want to be in, believe me. The lack of lubrication WILL kill your truck's fuel injection system. Period! This is why it is critical to check your pressures frequently. Or better yet, install a gauge.

 

[Mingoglia]

The engine will run although you may notice a slight lack of engine power when towing depending on how bad it is... Unfortunately the time that you'll notice it the most is when you change your fuel filter and you can't purge the air out of the system and get the truck started.

 

[jhellmers]

To Motorhead and Pit Bull: The gauge WAS ok; it was the lift pump. Had a new one put on and 15# at start, steady 12# running down the road. The service manager said that in the past, he always got the same pump #5080885AA ( the kit), but this time, it didn't supercede to the old number but to pump # 5015723AC. (actual pump #) Maybe it's a new design? Who knows... It's really a shame that a $40k truck is compromised by a #150 part or a design/location change that probably saved $25 per truck in installation costs. Same thing with the camshaft: they probably saved $10 per cam by removing the fuel pump lobe. otherwise, we would have another alternative to this problem.

JMHO

 

[Hohn]

I can't figure out for the life of me why you would put a fuel pump lobe on a cam designed to go in an electric fuel pump application?? I mean, if YOU were in business, would you design components (at higher cost) so "just in case" someone wants to mess with your design, they can?



I agree w/ the lift pump comments, but I think the cam lobe remark is out in left field



Hohn

 

[Pit Bull]

Originally posted by jhellmers



The service manager said that in the past, he always got the same pump #5080885AA ( the kit), but this time, it didn't supercede to the old number but to pump # 5015723AC. (actual pump #) Maybe it's a new design? Who knows...

:

If I remember right of the 8-9 pump upgrades the last one was the first quarter of 2002. So maybe AC is that final change or maybe they have a new one.

 

[illflem]

Normally revised part numbers are indicated by the letter at the end in alphabetic order. A 'C' would indicate the third revision.

 

[Pit Bull]

Originally posted by illflem

Normally revised part numbers are indicated by the letter at the end in alphabetic order. A 'C' would indicate the third revision.

I know what your saying but the lift pump has had 8-9 changes made to it. We had a thread awhile back that listed the 8-9 changes that have taken place. I will look for it.



Here is what I was refering too.



here is a little history on the lift pumps and what changes were done to them and part Numbers. hope this helps

this is long. dont ask were it came from and i will not have to lie



CORRECTIVE ACTION SUMMARY



Below is a breif history of Lift Pump Part Number and associated

design/product changes:



12V 24V



3943467 3942802 Initial ISB Production



3944818 3942802 Added "saw cut" to the motor casing to better

detect leaks during production



3944508 Stainless Steel Valve Seat/Bronze Bushing for

the Internal Pressure Regulator



3945812 3945813 Some lift pumps were having a problem with

the internal wiring shorting to the magnet sleeve. The wiring

insulation was inadvertantly being

stripped from the wiring during assembly and during pump operation the

wires are shorting to the magnet sleeve.

Federal Mogul has changed the angularity of the wire lugs in the bottom

of the pump so the wires will enter behind the

magnet sleeve in a more direct manner, thereby reducing the chances of

stripping

the insulation. They also changed their end

of the line testing to look for this shorting problem during pump

operation. Federal Mogul is also adding a

radius to the top and the bottom of the magnet sleeve where the wires

travel behind the sleeve.



3948431 3948432 Corrosion of the connection of the pig tail

at the bottom of the pump was being seen. This was found to be to the

result of road salt acting as an electrolyte.

The electrical eye terminal was changed by the vendor from brass to

bronze. No corrosion is evident during similation

and salt fog tests with the bronze terminal. The mechanical properties

of the bronze meet or exceed that of the

brass and the vendor did conduct vibration test for further

verification. To further aid in corrosion

resistance, grease was added to each terminal at the Engine plant during

assembly.



3946151 3948070 The lift pump was updated with an

integral electrical connector. The integrated connector eliminates the

need for a pigtail type harness on the pump

and will eliminate the exposure of the pigtail to environmental elements.

Also updated was EMI reduction for the pump

due to an added capacitor to the internal circuit board and a Ferride bead

added to the connector.



3948431 (12V) and 3948432 (24V) where still

kept available for service because the wiring harness on older engines

where not long enough to plug into the integral adapter.



3938367 3938368 It was found the bearing material used

for the MFR. of bearings was not consistently uniform,leading to

variance in the pump performance. This

leads to change the bearing material to sintered iron from bronze.

There was also a change in armature shaft

geometry to straight one reduces the 100% inspection of the shafts.

These pumps have the integral connector.



For service, 3948431 (12V) was superceded to

3938435 (12V) and 3948434 (24V) was superceded to 3938436 (24V).

These pumps still maintain the pigtail wiring harness.



3990082 This is a service kit supercedes

3948431(12V). It includes 3938367 (12V) and a jumper harness (4025182) so

that it can be used on older engines with the

shorter lift pump connection wiring harness. 3938436 (24V) was superceded

to 3938368 (24V), but a kit was not created to

included the jumper harness, 4025182 must be ordered separately.







3990105 3990106 The lift pumps have been updated to include

hardened valve seat to reduce valve wear. The pump also reverts to a

prior use RFI circuit board due tocomponents being

detached and jamming the pump.



Service kit 3990082 was updated to include

3990105 (12V). 3938368 (24V) was superceded to 3990106 (24V), but a kit

was not created to included the jumper harness,

4025182 must be ordered separately.





III. IMPLEMENTATION SUMMARY

The supplier started building pumps with these corrective actions in the

first week of May 2001. The latest lift pumps, part number 3990105 and

3990106 when into production

 

[Rockcrusher]

Originally posted by Sregorb

Now we're off to a good start. 18 so far. I have:

Sregorb

Pit Bull

Scott Rosendahl

rashwor

Diesel Gunner

jcbrown

JCyrbok

Shortshift

Edward

Trexroat

DBeatty

Ncostello

jjohn

dgvg81

RThompson

sticks

Rob Thomas

jvanwaardhuizen

Rockcrusher too.



If you sent a letter/email to DC and aren't shown please lemme know so I can add ya so we have an accurate count. I'm sure there still are plenty more to go also so keep them coming, the more the better



Brian Rogers

 

[Motorhead]

Rockcrusher, I sent my complaint to Nhtsa. Add me to the list.

 

[Sregorb]

Updated listing

30 so far. I have:



Sregorb

Pit Bull

Scott Rosendahl

rashwor

Diesel Gunner

jcbrown

JCyrbok

Shortshift

Edward

Trexroat

DBeatty

Ncostello

jjohn

dgvg81

RThompson

sticks

Rob Thomas

jvanwaardhuizen

HWhite

Hohn

wrhuston

robobx

100 Proof

dsherman

Motorhead

kboettcher

DHawthorne

jhellmers

mongoose

Rockcrusher



If you have sent a letter/email and don't see your name please say so.



There are also at least 3 more guest lurkers that emailed me at my hotmail address, I'll add them too as soon as I get home.....



Brian