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Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Lift pump answers from DC

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2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission 98 3500 hubcap

Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Pilot Bearing?

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lift pump dead

Brian

I thought I would add my experience with my lift pump. On Friday, July 18, I received a call at work from my wife who said our 01 3500 would turn over but not start. She said it started hard earlier in the day but didn’t think too much about it. I came home and checked the drain value on the fuel filter and guess what, no fuel came out. I tried bumping the starter, but there was no familiar whirring noise from the lift pump.



I’ve read a number of articles concerning lift pumps in TDR but not being very mechanical and not having the problem yet, I didn’t concern myself with the issue. Now it was time for the TDR web site. I couldn’t believe how many posts there were on this problem.



On Monday morning I had my truck towed to the dealer. I called to let them know what had happened and what I thought was the problem. Two hours (not days) they called and verified that the lift pump would be replaced under warranty and the towing was also covered (COOL).



What was really interesting was that they always run the VIN numbers through their system for any recalls or TSB’s and found nothing on lift pumps. They also called into the Star system and found that there was a recall (phrase used by service manager). On my no charge invoice they refer to “Preformed Campaign 878” instead of a recall. I asked the service manager if this meant that he just installed an updated version of the lift pump, but he didn’t know.



Count me in on another letter sent. Also has anyone reported this as a defect, which could cause a crash or cause injury to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). If NHTSA receives similar complaints, it may open an investigation and if it finds that a safety defect exists in a group of vehicles, it may order a recall and remedy campaign. This last paragraph is straight out the owner’s manual.



Thanks to everyone for all your input.



Rick
 
I went to cummins west in Ventura today and bought a lift pump. The dealer would not replace mine so I'll do it myself, besides then I know it will be done right. Anyway they said they did not know or ever hear of lift pump problems with our trucks. They said I was the first one they heard that from, YA Right. They also said to check the pump just put a gauge on it, thats exactly what I said, they were unaware of the new TSB for testing the lift pumps that DC uses. You know the long strung out ridiculous one. Ok enough I'll put this new one in and see what happens. . :cool: :D
 
I think I've found the solution to my lift pump problem. I posted a month or so ago in this thread that my fuel pressure goes down to zero under load and the dealer has been blowing me off because it's under "restriction". I was going to do it myself but haven't for two reasons. 1) It's like 118 here in Phoenix this time of the year. 2) My son's going to be born in about a week so I'm not going to be using my RV until the beginning of winter so I might as well wait until it cools off.



Well, I was at the Jeep dealership on Sunday looking at new Wrangler Rubicons. I told the sales manager that the only way I would buy a new Rubicon from him was if he had someone with authority "get their butt on the phone with the star line" and get them to authorize a new lift pump to be installed at the local Dodge dealership (The guy that owns this Jeep dealership also owns a Dodge dealership which makes it even better). He said no problem.



Well, I may be waiting until winter to get the new Jeep due to the fact that I can't do any rock crawlin' due to my new son... . haven't decided yet... . regardless though, I'm going to have the Jeep dealership deal with DC for my business...
 
Lift Pump trouble

Maybe this has already been brought up but I wonder if we should get Cummins involved in this also? Why not everybody send the letters to them as well as Dodge After all if 16,500 members told Cummings that we all were going to buy Fords if they didn't get the lift pump Fixed , Do you think they would pay any attention to our input????? ????:-{}
 
Unfortunately I don't think that having the lift pump have to pull fuel from the fuel tank all of the way from the back of the Dodge truck is their design flaw... . the trucks that they design this engine for are practically sitting on top of the fuel tank so the distance is short. Fuel pumps push better than they pull which is why we have so many problems... . and why others on this board either install a secondary pump to help or relocate their existing lift pump closer to the tank.



Mike
 
"Unfortunately I don't think that having the lift pump have to pull fuel from the fuel tank all of the way from the back of the Dodge truck is their design flaw"



Did you mean you DO think this is the design flaw? or are you pointing out that Cummins design objectives are different from the design/application of how it's used in the Dodge?



Brian
 
I'm referring to how dodge implemented it into their trucks. I agree with your second statement, "Cummins design objectives are different from the design/application of how it's used in the Dodge"



I believe that the lift pump would have an acceptable life expectancy if it was only having to pull fuel from the relatively close fuel tanks on a medium duty truck rather than from the rear of a 18 foot long truck... yes, I think Cummins *may* have some blame, but the problem is mostly Dodge.



Mike
 
Blame???????

Ok on the Blame, or what ever, Lets flood Cummins and Dodge with the Letters and see what happens?????How about TDR Fans If we do nothing, Nothing gets Done... . Is that what we really want?????????DOOOOO ITTTTTT... ... . Oo. Oo. Oo. Oo.
 
FYI,



Finally rec'd my standard form letter reply from DC.



They basically said thank you for the time spent writing the letter, but they dont have any plans to fix the problem.



And just like everyone says, they dont appear to be concerned at all.



Time to forward it, along with a carefully written report to the NTSB.
 
I think all of us need to cruise up to the local dealers with our generation 1 and 2 trucks (even though the gen 1 trucks don't have this problem) and look at the new trucks... and say, "well, I would buy a new one but I've lost confidence in the way DM handles problems due to the lift pump situation".



... and just like every other visit to the dealer, you'll probably get the, "I haven't heard of any lift pump problems" answer from whoever you talk to.



It amazes me that every service writer at the local Earnhardt Dodge dealer I've talked to doesn't seem to be aware of a high failure rate of lift pumps... it's always a "first time I've heard of it" response... . at least that's what I've gotten.
 
It's about perspective.

That's precisely why if there isn't a failure rate of the lift pump as represented by the number of posts on TDR (try a search on lift pumps! wow) about it then it should be easy to dispell by providing the number of lift pumps ordered and provided by Dodge and/or Cummins. It should be relatively easy to mesh those numbers against the number of trucks on the road in year groups to yield a percentage. We can then drop the subject and write it off as being just a part that broke in normal service life if it's a low percentage.



However, if there is merit to the "design flaw" crowd or the pump is failing often enough then the manufacturer needs to step to the plate and show their either A. the type to back up their products and please the customer, or B. to be a flash-in-the-pan, money is everything, don't care about the customer type.



Just my thoughts on the subject. Just trying to stay neutral in this and determine if there is/isn't a problem here... .



Brian
 
There is definitely a problem here.



Its a clear design flaw, which is quite costly when replacing the injection pump that gets damaged (were talking thousands of dollars), and its a safety issue.



We have members that are on their 3rd & 4th pump in under 100k miles.



That's simply unacceptable, especially when DC has known about if for several years now.



I'm not one that endorses frivolus lawsuits, or trying to get a free-bee, but this one needs to be made right, and at a minimum, we deserve to get an upgraded, real fix to our trucks, that we've paid thousands of dollars for, and are basically waiting for our pumps to fail.



Thats the reason why so many people have fuel pressure gauges, so they can be alerted when their LP fails so they can hopefully, save their injector pump. Its crazy.
 
OK, updated list time. So far I count:

Sregorb

Pit Bull

Scott Rosendahl

rashwor

Diesel Gunner

jcbrown

JCyrbok

Shortshift

Edward

Trexroat

DBeatty

Ncostello

jjohn

dgvg81

RThompson

sticks

Rob Thomas

jvanwaardhuizen

HWhite

Hohn

wrhuston

robobx

100 Proof

dsherman

Motorhead

kboettcher

DHawthorne

jhellmers

mongoose

Rockcrusher

MVeselsky

IWeiny

TWhiteside

nineonethree

maverick01'

DLausche

Shaft

BK

Rick B



That's 39 people that DC (at least) should have heard from since this thread started (month and a half ago).

I agree that if a part is failing (consumables like filters, oil, brakes, fluids, etc. not withstanding) 3 or 4 times inside of 100k then that's a terrible mark on the reliability of any vehicle. Wouldn't the cost savings in avoiding the cost of the injector pump drive a fix to reduce warranty costs alone?



Brian
 
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Cummins

I complained to Cummins in Ventura when I purchased my new lift pump a couple weeks ago, spoke with the service manager. He stated to me that I was the first one to complain about the lift pump, even though the guy at the counter said they sell them all the time.

Where are you guys mailing your letters? Give me the address and you can add me to your list. Not sure how long mine has been bad but I noticed Idle 9lbs about 4wks ago when I installed my gauge. I only have 36k on my truck. The dealer would not touch it. :mad:
 
"Yep, we have guys buy them all the time... but I haven't heard of any problems with 'em"... that's funny.



We need to all pitch in and buy one of those huge Christmas trees they have in NYC. Set it up at DC headquarters around Christmas time and hang all our dead lift pumps as tree ornaments on it. :p Maybe then they'll get the hint.
 
Here's what I just sent to the nhtsb:



Lift pump failure: My fuel transfer pump died during acceleration. This caused the engine to shut down and also caused the power steering and brakes to shut down as a result. The vehicle became difficult to control almost causing an accident.



Maybe this'll be enough of a safety concern if enough people put it this way.
 
I think it sounds good. After all, I've seen recalls similar to, "Winshield wipers could seperate resulting in poor visability which may lead to loss of vehicle control". I think yours is more important than that.
 
At least I had SOME success...

OK – count me in the “pounding DC with letters” crowd.



My tale: I wondered where all my power had gone. At a Dyno Day in KC last November, one fine gentleman/TDR member brought a portable gauge that we hooked to the Schrader valve and taped to my windshield. Hmmm. 6-7 lbs at idle, and I don’t know what moved faster – my foot to the floor or the needle pegging zero! :eek: I called the dealer from whom I’d bought my Ram the very next morning and told him about these readings. He said, “Yes, we’ve been replacing quite a few of those lift pumps. I have one that I’ll put back on the shelf with your name on it. Next time you make it down here (Tulsa area), just come in and we’ll replace it. ” Interestingly, he’s very well aware of the little “mods” I’ve done to my truck, and he said, “If this problem were just a few more inches along the fuel path, we couldn’t cover it, but since the problem comes BEFORE your little enhancements, it’ll be covered by warranty. ”



This is the same dealership that helped sponsor a great gathering of Cummins/Dodge owners back in January of ’00. That was written up in TDR issue 28 with plenty of appreciation expressed about such a great dealer.



BTW, FP gauge – on order. I suspect it’s getting close to time for the LP to “tire out” again, so I want to be able to see when it starts… (Just been waiting for the green light Chief Accountant…!)
 
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