Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Lift pump answers from DC

[Sregorb]

OK, research-type's, I've asked the following and never got a single response.



Does ANYBODY have written/printed info pertaining to the actual lift pump in use from DC? Specifically whether the pump is/is not being used out of an expressed spec? Is there a 3,4,12,100 foot pull limitation and a 5,10, 500 foot push limitation?

Or is this a case where members feel the spec is out-of-whack and too liberal?



Brian

 

[Sregorb]

I got via PM:

The instructions contained in the box with a new carter pump of our type specify that the pump be installed within three feet of it's source volume and that filtration be installed prior to the pump or the manufacturer's warranty will be voided.



Anybody have a copy of these instructions? Also, I assume here that the lift pump application is using this specific Carter pump?



Brian

 

[dkosheba]

Has anybody filed a complaint on the http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/ site yet? I did the recall search on my 01 and found only the one there.

Then performed complaint search on 2001 Ram and got 315 complaints. Not one was for fuel lift pump. Most were for auto transmissions thought, seems like my transmission or TC will fail before lift pump. Regardless I am still assembling funds for Fuel Pressure Gage now with 56K miles and no problems, my luck might be running out.



NOT ONE WAS FOR FUEL LIFT PUMP

 

[jmadden]

Hadn't seen these pages of posts before, but my e-mail went to Cummins yesterday after one of their service centers took $3100 of my hard earned money to replace both the lift/transfer pump AND the injection pump. E-mail was REALLY long and touched on a variety of topics, including how the DC response to these problems is tarnishing the Cummins reputation... no response yet.



DC will be getting a hardcopy letter after I look up some names in their annual report... some of the Officers, etc. Guess maybe Federal-Mogul might like a copy too... so both should go out in the next week, referencing all of the posted reference numbers above, so they can look into what hasn't been done yet. If I complete a NHTSA report I'll attach a copy to the other letters.



118k miles at the time of injection pump failure, yet the lift pump pressures were 13psi @ idle, 9psi @ 70mph, and 6psi @ WOT. Cummins verbally said that any idle pressure less that 15psi was unacceptable. (EDIT) If I read the DC service manual correctly 10psi or greater is considered a healthy lift pump.



The $3100 service has resulted in pressures of: 15psi @ idle with a full tank, 14psi @ idle w/ a quarter tank, 12psi @ 70mph, 9psi @ WOT.



Add me to the list.



Anyone done an actual members survey of the number of failed pumps and the mileage of failed pumps (lift and/or injection)? If not I think it is time to start one.



jm

 

[DHawthorne]

You want to see some people jump on this, get a lawyer that don't get anything without settlement and all of us as a group as the plaintiffs.



I have registered the complaint with the DOT web site. Want really pisses me off is there is no way to install a mechanical pump on the engine.



I used electric fuel pumps years ago on my 6. 2 suburban when the cam lobe worn to the point I could not get enough pressure to really make it run good. The first pump was gone in 40,000 miles. Took it apart and found it full of debries from the tank.



Put a filter in like everyone now talks about doing and it went over 100,000 miles. Changed the filter every 15,000.

Mounted the pump on the frame rail just back from center of the vehicle.

I think thats want I"m going to do in this case as well. I just had mine replaced in March of this year under warranty. Truck now has 110k on it . Going to get a fuel pressure Gage and install it.



My sons 96 has 215,000

on it . The mechanical pump has been replaced once.



Dave

 

[Sregorb]

Come on research heads, we still haven't had a response yet so I'm about to assume we don't have proof to back up the following statement and we can consider it false:



"The instructions contained in the box with a new carter pump of our type specify that the pump be installed within three feet of it's source volume and that filtration be installed prior to the pump or the manufacturer's warranty will be voided. "



Anybody have a copy of these instructions? Also, I assume here that the lift pump application is using this specific Carter pump?



Brian

 

[mediccummin]

No instructions

I'm wondering if no one has answered this yet because there are no instructions in the boxes with the new lift pumps. I bought 2 new pumps, one a month or so ago, and a spare last week, neither had instructions. While I was there we looked in what they had in stock and there were no instructions in any of the boxes. Good luck it would be nice to know the answer.

 

[Leon]

Lift pumps

Gentlemen...

Perfect use of "Class Action Law Suits" is indicated by this

important issue. . No one fears customers, but impending court

actions do seem to get more attention!!!!



Respondents list:

Put CD at top of list ,then Cummins,Federal Mogul,

local CD dealer. NHtSA



Seems that The TDR orginization and all the members

would constitute a mighty foe. .



Be Americans----"LITIGATE"!!!!!



Add to the list of people to CC: your local,state and federal represntative Newspapers Wall Street journal,any and all

Auto industry news mags...

Stress the Safety aspect of the matter (Everybody is safety con-

scious If they are politically correct)and if want to get re-elected

they are!!!!!

Add to the CC: list all the Board members of CD...

(they think they should get paid and not contend with mere

customers. ".

God Speed and good luck to us all



Nick Leon



Please forward this note to appropriate CD addresses. .

 

[PhilLewis]

Here's what they said to me

I have recently joined the ranks of the failed VP44 club. Since then I have learned the value of TDR and its members. I finally joined and this is my first post. This is my letter and their response:



Reference # 11355707

Comments:

---------

I am writing to express my disgust regarding the lack of comment or

action

by Daimler Chrysler pertaining to lift pump failures in '98 - '02

Cummins

Turbo Diesel vehicles. I am sure you are well aware of this problem due

to

the high occurance of failure with the lift pump and

subsequent/expensive

injection pump damage. I purchased my '01 2500 CTD based on the solid

reputation established by previous CTD units which were designed for

longivity and dependability. It is very discouraging to watch Dodge, a

company that has advanced so progressivly over the last 14 years, simply

ignore the customers that helped you get where you are today. The very

least you owe us is a public statement regarding the issue of weak fuel

supply and injection pump longivity. These units are marketed to

customers

based on strong, durable operation. This has not been the reality nor

has

it been properly addressed by Daimler Chrysler. As a member of the Turbo

Diesel Register, I strive to perform the absolute best preventive

maintence

practices in order to achieve the longest , most reliable operation

possible. If Dodge would have come forward when you first became aware

of

the issue, I'm sure millions of dollars and thousands of customers could

have been spared the unprevoked frustration and high cost associated

with

this issue. Also affected is the reputation of Dodge which has now been

destroyed by passive inaction. You should own up to the problem and

offer a

solution to your consumers. We are the reason you are in business.





Dear Phillip:



Thank you for your recent email to DaimlerChrysler Motors Corporation

about lift pump failures in 1998-2002 Cummins Turbo Diesels.



I regret your dissatisfaction regarding this concern and appreciate the

time and effort you took to bring this matter to my attention. Comments

like yours are one way to learn of problems that may develop and

improvements desired by customers. The information received is used in

product development and quality analysis, and will be forwarded to the

Heavy Duty Truck platform.



DaimlerChrysler Motors Corporation has made tremendous gains in customer

satisfaction and vehicle quality. Apparently, your expectations have

not been met. Please accept my apology for the problems you have

experienced.



Thank you for sharing your concerns.

Sincerely,



Paul Oster

Senior Staff Representative

DaimlerChrysler Customer Assistance Center

 

[Pit Bull]

'01 2500 QC4x4 Auto

Phil, based on the year of your truck the VP44 should of been covered under the 5 year 100K mile warranty. Was your VP44 replacement covered or were you out of warranty (over 100K miles)?

 

[PhilLewis]

Pit Bull, I made it to 130K. I wasn't aware of the flaws in the system and I trusted D/C would inform me of issues such as this. Got me one time but not two. I've learned from my mistake and as you can tell, I'm on the road alot. Even before I started reading TDR, I've been a PM stickler. Oil analysis from the first change and numerous fuel filters. That is why I'm angry they didn't step up and at least say something. I feel that of all the rigs out there mine is one of the best cared for. I'm a salesman that logs mostly highway miles and occasional loads. I'm planning on 500K minimum. BHAF on order, Saving for gauges and pusher pump, upgrade the lines, and then maybe the exhaust next. Longivity mods will come first then it will be time for a DTT from Bill. The fun bombs are going to wait until after that.

 

[Pit Bull]

Phil, you might look into the FASS system that is talked about here on the TDR. I drive 18K miles a year and will more than likely sell mine when the warranty is getting close to expiring, so any problems I might have will be on DC. I almost hope mine shoots craps so it will cost DC The only way big Corp. learn is when it costs them $$$.

 

[jmadden]

Send DC complaints to Dieter Zetsche (head of DC in the US) and Dodge Division complaints to Darryl Jackson (head of the Dodge division). Both can be contacted at:



1000 Chrysler Drive

Auburn Hills, MI 48326





jm

 

[puffincoal]

sent one off today, great tread, i have 55,000 miles and just waiting for the lp to fail, i even have an argument ready for the dealer

 

[asmith1527]

Re: RESPONSE-Please help by responding back

Originally posted by Sregorb

All,

OK here's the response back from DC:



Dear Brian:

Thank you for the recent e-mail regarding your 2002 Dodge Ram 2500.

DaimlerChrysler does not have any available information regarding your

request.

Thank you.



For any future communications related to this email, please refer to the

following information:

REFERENCE NUMBER: 11355707



Sincerely,

Robert Clark

Senior Staff Representative

DaimlerChrysler Customer Assistance Center

///end of response///



So here's what I think we need to do. EVERYONE that has had a lift pump problem or has a concern about the lift pump application PLEASE SEND AN EMAIL OR LETTER TO:

Daimler-Chrysler

Customer Assistance-United States

ATTN: Robert Clark

REF: 11355707

P. O. Box

21-8004

Auburn Hills, MI 48321-8004

OR

Send an email by going to www.dodge.com, contact us, click on email for Customer Assistance-United States and use the reference number 11355707.



I'm not looking for everyone to write a monster letter here. I just need you to let them know what kind of numbers of folks are having this problem, the frequency of failures, or that there is swaying concern over the failures. Make sure to use the reference number so that we all can capture the paper trail!



THIS WILL ONLY WORK IF THERE ARE SEVERAL PEOPLE WILLING TO TAKE THE TIME TO SEND A QUICK NOTICE TO THE PEOPLE THAT CAN MAKE THE DIFFERENCE!!!!



Just for our own tracking on the TDR if you respond PLEASE reply with a quick "I sent one". Thanks so much for your support in this issue.



Brian Rogers

 

[Rebel_Horseman]

Sent

Message sent 01 October, 2003 21:15



Reference Number 11703632

 

[Mtngoat]

This is interesting. I posted a question on a Harley forum in regards to warranties and I made mention of troubles with Dodge warranty. I got this reply from a guy in Michigan. Looks like we need to take out trucks to their tech center so they can quickly figure out theres a problem with lift pumps. This no biggie just something I thot interesting.





As I work for DaimlerChrysler, I can give you my viewpoint on warrantys. We really don't have a problem paying warranty $$ when we can pinpoint exactly what and why something went wrong. When "other" parts get introduced, the dealer has a difficult time determining why one of our parts went bad. "Did the new air cleaner flow too much air allowing the engine to run lean in which case hotter and then affected the downstream catalyst?". The problems can go on and on. Dealers just don't have the knowledge base to truly understand the ramifications of non-dealer parts. We could bring the vehicle to our Tech Center and figure it out quickly, but the auto companies are not set up that way.



No disrespect at all to the guy writing this, just thot I would post what he wrote.



Robin



Robin

 

[Pit Bull]

Robin, I think his response makes sense for DC. I want my warranty to work since I only drive 16-18K miles a year and figure that I can get 5 good years out of it. Because of that, I let the Dealer do all of the service and use all of the Mopar OEM filters etc. I know, very boring. I do all of my bombing by reading what you guys are doing

 

[Mtngoat]

I agree with your logic, Pit Bull, I strongly believe that I am my own warranty station. I kinda feel for the guys on here that are having all these pump problems, and not getting a definitive reply from the company.



Robin

 

[Pit Bull]

Originally posted by Mtngoat

I agree with your logic, Pit Bull, I strongly believe that I am my own warranty station. I kinda feel for the guys on here that are having all these pump problems, and not getting a definitive reply from the company.



Robin

Robin, I think the 2nd generation VP44 crowd is screwed. I'm one of them Now that DC has moved on to common rail and never fixed that LP and VP44 weakness, I think that if you own a VP44 equipped truck that you need to either keep it totally stock for the 5 year 100K mile warranty or start a special fund to pay for fuel system failures, because they will likely happen. I figure that by the time my truck gets beyond it's warranty I will have more data so I will have an idea of the cost of fuel system replacement based on common failure rates with the VP44. If it is not super bad I will keep the truck if it is high I will be moving on. I guess it is also a business decision for me just like DC