Add me too. My fuel pressure is 0 now. .
Lee Stanphill
Lee Stanphill
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Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Lift pump answers from DC
- Thread starter Sregorb
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CumminsPuller:
I "believe" Cummins is the one responsible for this pump as they are under contract with Carter for these pumps. Carter is their main supplier for a Feed/Transfer/Lift pumps for most of their engine line. Read thru their web news last year and you'll Carter is the supplier mentioned for new contracts.
I "believe" Cummins is the one responsible for this pump as they are under contract with Carter for these pumps. Carter is their main supplier for a Feed/Transfer/Lift pumps for most of their engine line. Read thru their web news last year and you'll Carter is the supplier mentioned for new contracts.
good info... ... ... ... . learn something new every day... ... ... . I guess I should have been more clear... ... ... I 'think' DC was responsible for the location... ... ... . I thought I had read that somewhere. Don't quote me. I believe if they had been mounted back by the tank we would have got some more life out of them... ..... just a thought.
Jason
Jason
Brian,
Anything new in this category?
Now that school is out for the summer, I finally got my letter off to DC. I'm on my 3rd LP/ VP44 (stock + 2) and it is showing signs of giving out at 83000 miles. It seems to me that I should not change injector pumps more often than my tires. :{
Scott
Anything new in this category?
Now that school is out for the summer, I finally got my letter off to DC. I'm on my 3rd LP/ VP44 (stock + 2) and it is showing signs of giving out at 83000 miles. It seems to me that I should not change injector pumps more often than my tires. :{
Scott
My truck has had at least 1 pump in it which is a year and a half old and is already starting to get weak. THis is a long thread so if your list is of folks not happy with the LP then you can add me to it.
Lift Pump Failures - Corporate involvement
Back in 1965 I bought a new Plymouth Satellite with 330 hp 383 ci, 4 speed w/Hurst shifter, positract axle.
I made a very loud request to the dealer to NOT put any logos on the car. Ignored! Friggin "Fretwell Plymouth" 3 inches high and 8 inches wide across the rear deck lid.
Serviced?
Well, I took it on a test drive and came right back in before taking delivery. Complaint, the shifter is way too stiff. Something is wrong with the transmission. Response: Oh that is the way it is supposed to be, just drive it.
Three days later, they tow it to the shop. transmission locked in 2nd & 3rd gears at the same time. When this occurred halfway thru an intersection, the rear wheels stopped turning. Black marks instantly and flat spotted tires.
Mechanic says it don't have any fluids in the transmission case. Oh gee, I already told them that. I scream for a new transmission, they refuse, "their option, fix or replace". New syncros and fluid.
Mechanic ignored the factory manual, it says "remove all cosmolene from syncros before installing". transmission locks up again. Tear down finds cosmolene on syncros (different mech). This time I tell them again that they have 80-90w gear lube in it. The manual says Dexron transmission fluid. They say it is an error in the book.
I scream at dealer again. "New transmission", they say no. I tell them I will not take delivery again until it gets one. It sits at the dealer's lot for a month.
By this time I have talked to dealer, local area rep and the district rep. All giving me the run around ( I'm only 22 at the time ). Don't know **** as they say. I was raised in a tool and die making machine shop helping dad make the tools that Chrysler used to make the parts.
I then wrote a very studied letter, concise and to the point, to the president of Chrysler Corporation explaining how all of their representatives have ignored my complaints.
Two days after I mailed it (air mail, certified) I got a telephone call from the man himself. He apologized for my bad experience. The next day his personal representative and I watched the complete repair process as the chief line mechanic hand built a new transmission. Same old case (met specs), but 100% replacement of parts. Every piece inspected to be on zero tolerance, not "within tolerance". The transmission was filled with Dexron transmission fluid this time.
That transmission ran for 15 years after that. The shifter only required one finger to shift it and the Hurst shifter always went to the proper gear.
I apologize for a very long story, but the point of it is:
The reps are not going to read anything you write. The secretary (not knowledgeable) scans to find a word she recognizes (lift pump) and zeroes in on that. Then punches the button to include your letter in the canned reply.
Suggestion:
Let's pick a day about 1 to 2 weeks down the road. Let's all format similar letters about the situation stressing DC's costs to replace VP44s and the high cost to out of warranty customers who find out that a simple lift pump failure kills the injection pump.
Explain that they have errored in NOT providing valuable fail safes for this. If the pressure drops below 8-10 psi, a pressure sensor should ring warning lights and buzzers stating that fact. If the pressure goes to zero, the computer should kill the engine and save the VP44 !
I guarantee all of you who have experienced a lift pump failure, IF a light came on and a buzzer sounded that your life pump was going to experience a sudden and catastrophic death, WOULD you have continued to drive your truck?
I think not.
EDIT: When I wrote this message, it was in response to one of the early messages about writing to STAR. I didn't realize that this "new thread" had started at the beginning over a year ago.
After I submitted it to the thread, I noticed the dates of the messages I was reading.
Obviously with a thread that has persevered as long as this one has, the LP's are a very real problem. I've taken good notice of this and bought a pusher pump for my truck.
-John Craig
Back in 1965 I bought a new Plymouth Satellite with 330 hp 383 ci, 4 speed w/Hurst shifter, positract axle.
I made a very loud request to the dealer to NOT put any logos on the car. Ignored! Friggin "Fretwell Plymouth" 3 inches high and 8 inches wide across the rear deck lid.
Serviced?
Well, I took it on a test drive and came right back in before taking delivery. Complaint, the shifter is way too stiff. Something is wrong with the transmission. Response: Oh that is the way it is supposed to be, just drive it.
Three days later, they tow it to the shop. transmission locked in 2nd & 3rd gears at the same time. When this occurred halfway thru an intersection, the rear wheels stopped turning. Black marks instantly and flat spotted tires.
Mechanic says it don't have any fluids in the transmission case. Oh gee, I already told them that. I scream for a new transmission, they refuse, "their option, fix or replace". New syncros and fluid.
Mechanic ignored the factory manual, it says "remove all cosmolene from syncros before installing". transmission locks up again. Tear down finds cosmolene on syncros (different mech). This time I tell them again that they have 80-90w gear lube in it. The manual says Dexron transmission fluid. They say it is an error in the book.
I scream at dealer again. "New transmission", they say no. I tell them I will not take delivery again until it gets one. It sits at the dealer's lot for a month.
By this time I have talked to dealer, local area rep and the district rep. All giving me the run around ( I'm only 22 at the time ). Don't know **** as they say. I was raised in a tool and die making machine shop helping dad make the tools that Chrysler used to make the parts.
I then wrote a very studied letter, concise and to the point, to the president of Chrysler Corporation explaining how all of their representatives have ignored my complaints.
Two days after I mailed it (air mail, certified) I got a telephone call from the man himself. He apologized for my bad experience. The next day his personal representative and I watched the complete repair process as the chief line mechanic hand built a new transmission. Same old case (met specs), but 100% replacement of parts. Every piece inspected to be on zero tolerance, not "within tolerance". The transmission was filled with Dexron transmission fluid this time.
That transmission ran for 15 years after that. The shifter only required one finger to shift it and the Hurst shifter always went to the proper gear.
I apologize for a very long story, but the point of it is:
The reps are not going to read anything you write. The secretary (not knowledgeable) scans to find a word she recognizes (lift pump) and zeroes in on that. Then punches the button to include your letter in the canned reply.
Suggestion:
Let's pick a day about 1 to 2 weeks down the road. Let's all format similar letters about the situation stressing DC's costs to replace VP44s and the high cost to out of warranty customers who find out that a simple lift pump failure kills the injection pump.
Explain that they have errored in NOT providing valuable fail safes for this. If the pressure drops below 8-10 psi, a pressure sensor should ring warning lights and buzzers stating that fact. If the pressure goes to zero, the computer should kill the engine and save the VP44 !
I guarantee all of you who have experienced a lift pump failure, IF a light came on and a buzzer sounded that your life pump was going to experience a sudden and catastrophic death, WOULD you have continued to drive your truck?
I think not.
EDIT: When I wrote this message, it was in response to one of the early messages about writing to STAR. I didn't realize that this "new thread" had started at the beginning over a year ago.
After I submitted it to the thread, I noticed the dates of the messages I was reading.
Obviously with a thread that has persevered as long as this one has, the LP's are a very real problem. I've taken good notice of this and bought a pusher pump for my truck.
-John Craig
Last edited:
I would like to be added to the list, but it is a long thread and I am looking for a good boilerplate letter to just add my VIN, name etc... to e-mail AND snail mail to DC. I had my pump replaced under warratny about a month ago (50,000 miles. ) Count me in on a mass mailing. I won't send anything yet and will continue to monitor this thread pending a group decision. Thanks. -frank.
Reiteration of previous post
(QUOTE
"To admit trouble at this date would most certainly elicit a whole slew of lawsuits. I would hazard to guess there IS a case or two out there where the LP failed and a accident of some type happened as a consequence. I would also bet that DC knows about it and may have even handled it quietly, give the victim a fist full of money, make them promise not to talk about it...
No problem !!!
Until you find a Law firm willing to file class action, DC will politely thank you for your input, and deposit your letter in the round letter file.
MY $. 02 worth" (UNQUOTE)
Send 10 letters or 10,000 letters, They will all be handled by the same type of functionary who scans the letter, see's the term VP44 and punches the button to send the form letter reply we have all received.
Get a Law Firm Interested who can get a case certified as Class Action, then you WILL get DC's attention. Until then, we are just adding paper to their recycle bin.
I guess now I am up to $. 04 worth. .
(QUOTE
"To admit trouble at this date would most certainly elicit a whole slew of lawsuits. I would hazard to guess there IS a case or two out there where the LP failed and a accident of some type happened as a consequence. I would also bet that DC knows about it and may have even handled it quietly, give the victim a fist full of money, make them promise not to talk about it...
No problem !!!
Until you find a Law firm willing to file class action, DC will politely thank you for your input, and deposit your letter in the round letter file.
MY $. 02 worth" (UNQUOTE)
Send 10 letters or 10,000 letters, They will all be handled by the same type of functionary who scans the letter, see's the term VP44 and punches the button to send the form letter reply we have all received.
Get a Law Firm Interested who can get a case certified as Class Action, then you WILL get DC's attention. Until then, we are just adding paper to their recycle bin.
I guess now I am up to $. 04 worth. .
I know we like to blame Dodge for lots of things... but what about Cummins Engine Company Inc??? How much do you really believe Dodge had to do with the lift pump selection that Cummins uses on every other application with an ISB? Everytime Cummins changes the B series engine... thats what Dodge uses. If its got flawed pumps... we get them. If the pistons are flawed... we get those too.
Any lawsuit would have to perhaps also include Cummins and Federal Modul (Carter). After all they decided it was OK and installed them.
Any lawsuit would have to perhaps also include Cummins and Federal Modul (Carter). After all they decided it was OK and installed them.
DC replied with their standard apology for my dissatisfaction with their porduct letter. I countered with the following: Sorry for the length.
In regards to your reply to my message concerning Reference Number 11355707. I accept your apology, however, I doubt that the lift pump problems surrounding the 98. 5 - 02 Cummins equipped the Dodge product is your fault. And fault is neither the concern w/myself nor my fellow TDR members whom are very loyal to the Cummins/Dodge product. I myself have always been a Mopar Man presently owning a 73-340 Duster, a 99 Cummins equipped 2500 Ram and presently considering purchase of the new Hemi equipped Magnum for my wife (Ha, Ha). The concern for most of us TDR members, especially those like myself whom are over the 100k warranty, is failure of an improperly located $185 part, which if undetected will cause failure of a $1400 part. More so for those whom must pay someone else to perform these repairs, is the previously mentioned dollar amounts multiply very quickly. What we members in this post warranty mode would surely appreciate is a “Dodge developed lift pump relocation kit”. This would wipe away any dissatisfaction and prove to us that Daimler/Chrysler stands behind their products. Not to mention reducing the many future warranty replacements of lift pumps and VP44 injection pumps. From a customer standpoint it makes sense, "DC stands behind its product by developing a cost effective resolution to a long standing issue with the Cummins equipped vehicles, which is greatly appreciated by their loyal customers. " Not to mention the reduction of warranty repair expenses. This lift pump relocation kit could simply consist of a mounting bracket utilizing existing holes in the frame, wiring extensions, hose, clamps, (maybe even a scuff shield to protect the relocated pump) and other minor items required to relocate the pump on the frame closer to the tank. The kit may cost Daimler/Chrysler $100? I know . . . multiply that by the number of units required and the amount must be staggering. If you think of this amount as money not wasted in warranty repairs, and good money spent retaining/enhancing present customer loyalty it quickly becomes a moot issue.
Just the humble opinion of an old Mopar Man. TDR member Joe Mc
In regards to your reply to my message concerning Reference Number 11355707. I accept your apology, however, I doubt that the lift pump problems surrounding the 98. 5 - 02 Cummins equipped the Dodge product is your fault. And fault is neither the concern w/myself nor my fellow TDR members whom are very loyal to the Cummins/Dodge product. I myself have always been a Mopar Man presently owning a 73-340 Duster, a 99 Cummins equipped 2500 Ram and presently considering purchase of the new Hemi equipped Magnum for my wife (Ha, Ha). The concern for most of us TDR members, especially those like myself whom are over the 100k warranty, is failure of an improperly located $185 part, which if undetected will cause failure of a $1400 part. More so for those whom must pay someone else to perform these repairs, is the previously mentioned dollar amounts multiply very quickly. What we members in this post warranty mode would surely appreciate is a “Dodge developed lift pump relocation kit”. This would wipe away any dissatisfaction and prove to us that Daimler/Chrysler stands behind their products. Not to mention reducing the many future warranty replacements of lift pumps and VP44 injection pumps. From a customer standpoint it makes sense, "DC stands behind its product by developing a cost effective resolution to a long standing issue with the Cummins equipped vehicles, which is greatly appreciated by their loyal customers. " Not to mention the reduction of warranty repair expenses. This lift pump relocation kit could simply consist of a mounting bracket utilizing existing holes in the frame, wiring extensions, hose, clamps, (maybe even a scuff shield to protect the relocated pump) and other minor items required to relocate the pump on the frame closer to the tank. The kit may cost Daimler/Chrysler $100? I know . . . multiply that by the number of units required and the amount must be staggering. If you think of this amount as money not wasted in warranty repairs, and good money spent retaining/enhancing present customer loyalty it quickly becomes a moot issue.
Just the humble opinion of an old Mopar Man. TDR member Joe Mc
Crap, at this point I would pay for the relocation kit if I knew that it would solve the lift pump problem while keeping the rest of the warranty intact. Yeah I know I can relocate my lift pump for much cheaper myself but since I'm under warrantly I would hate for either my lift pump relocation or my pusher pump to be pointed at as a non-approved modification that "must of 'caused the injector pump to fail since it was upstream".
Mike
Mike
I think JimKing might be right. The next step would be a (probably ignored as well) mass-mailing but it wouldn't be until a drastic step like a class-action before it would get any attention. (any lawyers out there willing to work for free?
)
Anyway, rather than keep posting the list and taking up an entire posting page at a time I'll track the respondants and switch to numbers now.
There are now 71 TDR people with failed lift pumps, and/or fuel injector pumps (VP), and/or design reliability concerns that have sent a letter to DC to try and affect a manufacturer-sponsored TSB, design change and fix, or allow member relocation/augmentation/modification and remain under warranty.
Thank you to those lurkers out there sending me the emails also!!!! For those of you that don't realize it. This thread is getting alot of attention outside TDR membership too and they're mailing and or fuming also.
Open question--Anybody ever get stranded because of these failures?
Last time I was on the side of the highway I would consider that a high risk area, not someplace I would want to be due to ANYTHING breaking on the truck. Trucks break-fact. BUT, if I found out later it was due to a bad design and people knew about it and did nothing, and the only reason I knew about it is because of the honest exchange of experiences on a website..... I'd be a little torqued just like any other consumer that "bought into" that product.
Food for thought.
Brian
)Anyway, rather than keep posting the list and taking up an entire posting page at a time I'll track the respondants and switch to numbers now.
There are now 71 TDR people with failed lift pumps, and/or fuel injector pumps (VP), and/or design reliability concerns that have sent a letter to DC to try and affect a manufacturer-sponsored TSB, design change and fix, or allow member relocation/augmentation/modification and remain under warranty.
Thank you to those lurkers out there sending me the emails also!!!! For those of you that don't realize it. This thread is getting alot of attention outside TDR membership too and they're mailing and or fuming also.
Open question--Anybody ever get stranded because of these failures?
Last time I was on the side of the highway I would consider that a high risk area, not someplace I would want to be due to ANYTHING breaking on the truck. Trucks break-fact. BUT, if I found out later it was due to a bad design and people knew about it and did nothing, and the only reason I knew about it is because of the honest exchange of experiences on a website..... I'd be a little torqued just like any other consumer that "bought into" that product.
Food for thought.
Brian
Please add me to your list of letter writers. I have replaced 5 lift pumps in 90,000 miles and 1 V. P 44. The dealer also replaced the entire fuel system from the tank forward lines,filter housing,ect. per the dealer said this is what they were told to do by chrysler. also fuel pump #6 is failing as I write this 8 lb of pressure down to 4 lb's of pressure and back up to 8lbs. I wonder if dodge will extend our warr or just wait for all the trucks to have expired warr and say the hell with us . Good way to extend customer loyalty. just my penny's worth.
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Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
FREE!
TDR Test Drive - Digital Edition
Renew
Subscribe
Gift Subscriptions
Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
Buyer's Guides
Ram Diagnostic Trouble Codes
The Perfect Collection
The Perfect Collection Vol. II
TSB Updates
Dodge/Cummins Historical Overview
Cameron Collection
What Makes Us Tick?
Product Showcase
Advertising
