Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Lift pump fuel supply woes

[DavidC]

I just ordered the Glacier 392 system... DavidC, what's your impressions of the strainer you bought?

I really like it. Comes apart for cleaning, clear plastic so you can see what may be floating around in there. It has a stainless mesh screen. I removed about 1 foot of steel line in front of the tank, used two 1/4" pipe couplings for standoffs and mounted it to the frame, Used diesel rated fuel hose from West Marine to tie it back together.



Dave

 

[DavidC]

Here is the link for the strainer if you are interested.

http://www.enginegearonline.com/instforoildi.html



A blow up picture

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/enginegearonline_1907_29662



or just click the picture of the first link and it will enlarge.



Dave

 

[DMannon]

I saw that. It looks like a nice setup. What size is the screen (how small will it catch)? Can you post pics of your install?



I talked to Richard at Glacier this morning, ordered the 392 and the prefilter for now, just got notice that it was shipped this afternoon. How's that for turnaround?



Their prefilter would be perfect if it unscrewed and was cleanable. It goes down to 27 microns; there's a pic of it on his website blown apart. Otherwise, you just wait for your pressure to drop, then it's time to change... I don't like that. Seems to uncertain.



He said Cummins has been ordering his 2 micron filter system from him for testing, apparently because Fleetguard has been having some sort of supply problem. Anyways, Cummins is apparently having a lot of problems with the ULSD due to its scouring effect and it is loosening a lot of junk from inside of tanks. Fuel (lift) pumps have been coming in for service totally clogged with gel type stuff at the inlet. Probably from increased use of bio, too (my guess).



Are you going to try washing your tank with that stuff from West? Bad part about washing it, it just takes one bad tankful to screw it all up...

 

[DavidC]

No digital camera for pics . The screen is more in the area of probably 150 micron. Fleetguards unit that they told me to use was rated at 147 micron, The number was FF5079 and was a metal can and unserviceable. I added this from West Marine. Figured that if the enzymes for RV's eat poop then these little guys should have a feast on what ever it is in my tank. We will see if it works.

http://starbrite.com/productdetail....t=Gas & Diesel Additives (Auto)&ProductSSCat=



The main reason I went with this Strainer was that I did not want to put any more strain on the lift pump trying to suck fuel from the tank. The bad part about all this is I think the fuel came from Flying J at Cokeville Wyoming. At least that's when I noticed the gradual decline in pressure.



Dave

 

[DavidC]

I wonder if that gel type stuff is the same thing I have. Seems to be clear and ,well, It appeared to be just like Vaseline. Tried Brake cleaner on it before cutting the in tank screen off and it did not even phase it. I guess maybe if more people come up with this stuff maybe we will find out more.



Dave

 

[USMCBay]

hey Shawn, thats my setup that you pictured off DTO so far, its still working well. I have had problems with fluctuating fuel pressure for a couple weeks, but I can tell its the pump cavitating, but it only does it at idle, under throttle its fine... go figure. My sending unit died about the same time I got this fuel pressure issue, so I am thinking that the gauge not working and messed up FP might be from the newer Bio mixed fuels that have implemented in MN in the past few months. Probably broke loose a bunch of junk in my tank and is clogging the filter screen in the tank... now that I think about it, when the pressure fluctuates, thats exactly what the pump sounds like, like a vacuum when you plug the hose... hmmmmm. Hopefully I am going to pull the tank and replace the sending unit tomorrow, I will post up what I find.

Hey - Great Picture!



So did you drop your tank? What did you find?



I was going to drop mine this past weekend but had to go out of town... maybe this weekend if my wife doesnt keep me too busy getting the house ready to sell :-{} Well... maybe the weekend after... My FP jumped one psi and holding steady. Not sure why.



Let us know what you find in your tank screen!



Dave I really like your setup!

 

[DavidC]

Shawn

Here is what he found in the tank, not pretty and more than expected.

http://turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162740



Dave

 

[Alphacowboy]

sorry Shawn, didnt see your post till now on this... as Dave pointed out, i found a mess... . :{





I am going to TRY, and pull the tank tomorrow if time permits, but I doubt that will happen with the inlaws coming tomorrow for the weekend...



I got way to much shiat to do and not enough time!

 

[Alphacowboy]

update, I didnt pull the tank... yet! :{ Had some issues with getting the new engine running in my work van... long story short, refreshed engine... fired it up... . got oil in the radiator and coolent in the oil pan, needless to say I am not happy!



Anyway I changed filters to the larger version of what I had under the truck before. This new prefilter is twice as large, and guess what, I cant even pull the fuel gauge below 13 now. it basicly stays at 15 all the time unless I REALLY get on it. Also, I cut the old filter apart, and it had lots of those little black particles in it, like what I had found in the tank, but still was pretty clean for the most part.

 

[WNasser]

Dave,



I've been following this thread and you certainly piqued my interest b/c i've gone through 2 LP's and 1 IP in the past year. That being said.



Is your LP stock or do you have the relocation kit? I read somewhere above that Fleetgaurd recomended that you use 150 micron filter. If the relocation kit is installed could a lower micron filter be used? I know vulcan has an inline 15 micron filter. Any suggestions. ~Bill

 

[DavidC]

Dave,



I've been following this thread and you certainly piqued my interest b/c i've gone through 2 LP's and 1 IP in the past year. That being said.



Is your LP stock or do you have the relocation kit? I read somewhere above that Fleetgaurd recomended that you use 150 micron filter. If the relocation kit is installed could a lower micron filter be used? I know vulcan has an inline 15 micron filter. Any suggestions. ~Bill

Lift pump is stock and in original location. Some here are running filters before the pumps and the pumps are relocated with apparently no problems. With my setup being stock I did not want to give the original style set up any more restriction than it already has such as 5/16 line and a 5/16 pickup in the tank. All that being said, if I relocated the pump I would still use the strainer before the pump and probably not use a filter. The strainer I have is easy to check visually and also comes apart for cleaning, any trouble shooting goes pretty quick on the lift pump side of the engine filter. All of this of course is only my opinion, others may vary.



Dave

 

[CORed]

Any update to this scenario? David? Is your pump still putting out consistently good pressures?



I just installed a Walbro because a 1. 5 month old Carter acted funny while towing up Monarch Pass in CO. So in went the Walbro from Glacier and I added the fleetguard strainer ahead of it. For the first day it had 15+ lbs steady, then shortly after that, it started dropping and by the next day, I could pull it under 5 at WOT. Idle was only 14. I was planning to replace the strainer, but don't want to do this again, and again, and again... ... ... .



Steve

 

[DavidC]

Steve,

Mine is still working flawlessly. I have cleaned the strainer once just because I saw some debris in it, the debris was not causing any issues and the strainer is easy to work on so I cleaned it.



Dave

 

[DavidC]

One note I want to mention as I just looked thru this post again. After I installed the strainer I hooked my aux, fuel transfer pump to the line from the tank, put the nozzle into the tank fill, installed a new filter on the aux. pump and began circulating the fuel thru the tank. I stopped when the meter showed 75 gallons and reinstalled the fuel lines to the original locations. Basically I cleaned the fuel tank. Like I said above, no problems since.



Dave

 

[DMannon]

Steve (CORed),



It sounds like you're getting air in the lines, or you might have the factory cap still on your tank vent.



When I installed mine I had the same problems and thought I was sucking air through one of the fittings on the big line kit. I made up plugs for the ends of the whole system, one at the tank end, one at the bypass end and one at the VP end, and pressurized the whole thing with air to 45 psi, left it overnight, and didn't lose any pressure.



THAT's what convinced me to drop the tank. The fuel pickup was the problem. In hindsight, dropping the tank was not as hard as I expected; just get it down to less than a 1/4 tank.



If you have crud in the inlet end of your Walbro, you need a prefilter between the tank and the pump.



Keep in mind, the lift pump is part of a system. Low or fluctuating pressure doesn't necessarily mean the pump is bad. You have fittings, fuel lines, filters and housing, bypass valves, fuel tank pickup, electrical connections and relays... . be methodical and try to isolate and test each component.



Oh, and check the easy stuff first. Don't know how many times I've learned that lesson. :-laf

 

[CORed]

So DMannon, you weren't venting like you wanted to so you added a vent? Or just unplugged the vent cap on the stock pickup assembly on the tank and that fixed your problem?



When you dropped the tank, you said the fuel pickup was the problem. Do you mean you did what DavidC did above and cut out the fine silk screen mesh in the pickup itself?



I checked voltage and most of my setup has been in place for awhile other than the new pump, pre-filter/strainer and the return line. I did blead air at the fuel filter after install and pressurize and that's what got my pressure back up to 15-16 where I wanted it. I have not attempted to see if I have more air at that location. I wish there was an easy way to blead it without taking the cap off. I hate ruining the rubber seal.



Maybe I should have checked while driving and getting the bad pressure if the tank was pressurized by removing the fill cap and seeing if it "whooshes". I'll have to try that. If it does, then I guess the tank is getting pressurized and would that cause my problem?



Steve

 

[DavidC]

If the tank is not venting you will have a vacuum in the tank and yes it could cause your problem. You could loosen the cap and take a ride and see what happens. Just do not do it with a full tank as any turns could get messy.



Dave

 

[DMannon]

I had a dislodged pickup that was sucking some air when I was at lower tank levels. I ended up buying another pickup assembly from ebay, but in hindsight, I'd probably go with something like the Draw Straw.



There was a thread a while back about the little cap left on the tank vent from the factory, that it was causing vacuum in the tank.



Anyways, back to fluctuating pressures, if your pump is causing the fluctuations, it's probably either electrical or it's wearing out. Air in the system seems a more likely culprit.



Try disconnecting the fuel line at either the Vp or the filter housing and letting the line flow into a bucket. Bump the starter and let the LP run. You should get about 1/2 gallon in 20 seconds. If the fuel is foamy or has bubbles, air's getting in somewhere. Less than 1/2 gallon, your pump's not putting out what it should, either worn or obstructed.



Let us know what you find...

 

[DMannon]

Oh, and be careful about blowing compressed air back into the tank through the fuel lines to clean the pickup screen. Keep the pressure low, no more than 20 psi. Too much pressure can dislodge the pickup in the fuel pickup assembly.

 

[CORed]

Thanks for the tips guys. I'm flying back home today and will research the "vent" possibility first. Then probably look into a plugged pre-strainer. Not looking forward to another diesel bath.



I'll post back.



Steve