lift pump replacement @ warranty

[barbwire]

I don't understand, . After reading about all of the lift pumps gone bad, and taking with them the injection pumps, doesn't DC give a #@$#$. They must be replacing many-many-many of them on warranty. It has to be costing a d&mn fortune for them , not to mention the rest of us. I guess the fellas making the pumps are swimming in the green . But why don't DC, or Cummins fix this weak link? It sure is apparent:--) even to the service tech. at the Chrysler, that my truck has been seeing. He told me the last visit, that it is not a matter of if, but a matter of when, that it will fail.

I don't want to lengthen this question to much, but I gotta know if somewhere in theTDR, there is a system in which the members get together , and petition DC to get their act together and come up with something more dependable. I just know the words that I'LL be using to describe them, DC that is, ( in private of course) will not be to kind, if I have to walk a few miles in the frozen north , because of a common failure.

Now comes the contemplation----------

 

[Bigsaint]

That's a good question and I don't have the answer. Seems that Carter, the Co. that builds the pumps, keeps making revisions while DC keeps mounting them in a poor location ( a matter of convience ???). Maybe Cummins is more to blame. They test each engine before they crate same and send it out to DC, I wonder who is telling who to place the pump on the engine, rather than back on the frame, near the fuel tank, where it belongs ???



Scott W.

 

[TNT]

Another lift pump story

Yesterday I check my fuel pressure after I changed the filter. 2#'s at WOT. 4 - 6#'s at 65 mph. According to what I've read, I might be able to get it fixed under warranty I've got 30,500 miles on my 98. 5. Should I remove the EZ and boost elbow? If I remove the EZ but not the elbow will I set any codes?



I am going to stop and talk to the dealer I purchased the truck from first. If I have to go over their head, who do I contact?:-{}

 

[Steve Campbell]

TNT, removal of the EZ and elbow would be best.



barbwire, your idea is the best long term solution for Ram Cummins owners in general. I did not want the hastle and just moved a HP4601 Carter back by the tank. I just looked at it similiarly to buying a set of better shocks, or brake pads.

 

[mdlowry]

problems?

I keep hearing about problems with the lift pumps. I have 71,6?? miles on my truck so far and I haven't had a problem yet. I do have a fuel pressure gauge and I keep an eye on it. I guess I'm the exception.

 

[barbwire]

Pump replcement

Great responses, however we (dodge- Cummins owners) are still left holding the bag. One of the aspects I was getting at, but need to be pionted in the right direction, was the fact that we should have strength in numbers. Such as a petition. You would think that with the number of members in the TDR , that they may sit up and take notice, if we were to speak. But maybe there is a legal situation here that I don't know about.

 

[WyoJim]

Paranoia strikes again!!

mdlowry... You are not the exception, you are in the majority. Most owners have not had a lift pump problem. There is 10 or 12 Dodge Cummins in our little town of 50 people and I don't know of a lift pump problem on any of them. A 5th gear nut, a couple of thermostats, a clutch and a AC problem, but no lift pumps.



However do to the scarcity of replacements and the obvious chance of a failure, I carry a spare under the rear seat.



barbwire... . Its unlikely a failed lift pump will strand you, as the VP44 will pull its own fuel, at least enough to limp to someplace. One member e-mailed me that he limped 600 miles to home when his went. Ya just can't put the pedal to the metal when its limping. Incidently, I think pedal to the metal all the time is a big contributor to failure of the pump.

 

[barbwire]

Ok , maybe I'm all wet. , and you bring up a few good points. I guess the old saying may hold true here- (if your gonna play you gotta pay)- But I also think that if this were not a common problem, you wouldn't carry a spare under the seat. Correct me if I'm wrong. But it is good to know that we can limp the beast home , should it happen. And if you wouldn't mind ,I would like to know the approx. cost of a lift pump. I hadn't priced one out yet. Thanx.

 

[WyoJim]

barbwire... I paid $139. 00 for my spare, from a Cummins dealer. DC wants 2 or 3 times that.

They got scarce as h*ll for a while. Thats the reason for my spare.

Guys had been waiting up to a week for repair under warranty. So I stopped in to my Cummins dealer and tried to buy one. He said he didn't have one but could get me one by tomorrow. I said "See if it had went right out in front of your place, I would be stranded untill tomorrow".

This was a year ago and he said up untill then he had only sold one other one.

 

[The Sequel]

Re: Paranoia strikes again!!

Originally posted by WyoJim

Incidently, I think pedal to the metal all the time is a big contributor to failure of the pump.

I'm sure it is a contributing factor, but my wife thinks I drive like an old lady. I'm too picky about my fuel mileage so I never really hammer it. On the other hand, I do have about 9,000 miles of towing a 6-7,000# travel trailer. I've got just over 36,000 miles and my pressures are 2-3# WOT, and 9# at idle. I'm working with the dealer to try and get the pump replaced under warranty.

 

[joel]

I took mine in with 40+K something on it

And told them I suspected the lift pump. They said it WOULD be covered under warranty. Turns out it was the INJECTOR pump and the lift pump was putting out all the correct numbers. They replaced the injector pump under warranty and I was good to go. I may have mentioned before that I have a pretty good dealer.

 

[Bigsaint]

I don't really think the pedal to the metal theory has much do with the lift pumps failure. If anything, you are opening up the restriction ( hence high psi's to lower psi's) and stopping the pump from beating itself to death. Aggressive driving will pronounce the effects of a dying pump. If you have 5 psi's at idle you will probably have vaccum at WOT, which means that the VP44 is now sucking the fuel through the obstructions, the fuel filter and the lift pump.



I can tell you that you will not be able to drive home with a dead Mallory pump. I tried when the first pump died, anything above idle in 2nd gear meant a bad stumble, with the SPA FP gauge showing a -11 psi's. I stopped after a 1/4 mile and parked the beast.



Scott W.

 

[WyoJim]

Bigsaint... I think the restricted banjo bolt going into the lift pump among other things can run the OEM Carter lift pump low on fuel and lubrication after prolonged wide open throttle!! Over and over equals eventual failure.

 

[Bigsaint]

Jim, that's a good point and I never considered the banjo bolt restriction on the inlet to the Carter pump. Guess if you are demanding a ton of fuel while, while the Carter pump is located too far forward with a restriction at it's inlet, lubrication or the lack thereof, could come into play. I know that the gerator designed pumps require fuel for lubrication due to the tight tolerances, do the vaned style Carter pumps also require the same amount of lubrication ??? I'm not sure on that one, put you definetly bring up a good point .



Scott W.

 

[speedracer]

Is there any consensus at what pressure damage is taking place to the VP44?



I'm in the same boat as TNT, I just put a fuel pressure gauge on and I've got about 9lbs at idle, 5-6 lbs running down the road, and I can get it down to 3 lbs if I try. So I guess I need to go find out how cooperative my dealers service department is.

 

[TNT]

lift pump warranty

I haven't been to the stealer yet, but I did find in my warranty book that the lift pump is an emission item. So it should be covered, if they consider low pressure as a failed pump.

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

D/C's STAR hotline is now saying a minimum of 8 psi at WOT under load. Here's a post from MOPARS1 who works at a Dodge dealer:

Briar, I would like to step in here and tell all of you with the 24 Valve that according to DC the lowest you want to see at the injection pump is 8PSI at WOT under any conditions. They have upped the low pressure limit because of injection pump failures. Under load the pump is not getting enough fuel through it to lubricate it and if the pump clearances are a little tight you will have a failure if run at a lower fuel pressure over a period of time. Just a concern all of you might want to think about.



David

 

[rcaldwel]

Lift Pump going bad

This TDR Forum is great.



I got guidance to install my Westech fuel pressure gauge here and did so last saturday. Guess what? Yep, another candidate for a new lift pump. Idle is 7 PSI, WOT is less than 4 PSI. Took it to the dealer this morning and he agreed. He ordered a new lift pump and said its all covered under warranty. I have 93K on the truck. There was no indication except from the new FP gauge that anything was wrong.



I told the dealer when setting up this mornings appointment last week that I was sure it was the lift pump and make sure you have one in stock so we can get this all done in one visit. Guess what they didn't do? After they check the truck out this morning and agreed it was the lift pump, I told them that it was sad that they could not listen to customers, especially when I gave them all the information about the old lift pump PSIs at idle, WOT and at various PSIs at cruising speeds. Think they would have listened and thought that this customer knew what he was talking about. Oh well.



Thanks TDR members for such great information I am sure it saved me some grief as we are planning a five thousand mile trip at the end of this month.



Bob Caldwell

 

[claymike]

Just had my third lift pump put in on Monday I only have 40k on the truck and it is stock. I am taking Michael Brolins truck in tomorrow for his new lift pump I think he is at 25k. At least Star took these off of the restricted list so they are a little easier to get.



Mike

 

[RJOL]

Originally posted by Steve St. Laurent

D/C's STAR hotline is now saying a minimum of 8 psi at WOT under load.

Steve... Are you saying that we should be talking to Dodge service if we are seeing less than 8psi WOT... Do the dealers know about this, and if not, who should we tell them to contact? This is a big change over their old policy that stated that if you had any positive pressure at any throttle postion, the pump was okay...