Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Limited Slip Question

[chopperman]

Greetings fellow TDR folks. I recently purchased a new to me 97 auto . My question is I can't tell if it has a LSD in it or not. I had a little work done on the engine and while holding the brake on (power braking) it will boil the rear tire on the drivers side. Not the typical passenger side one tire. I have looked under the hood at the sticker to see if it says anything about"anti-spin" or limited slip and nothing stands out. All it says is somthing about a spicer? I think it has a Dana 70 ,maybe?? I know nothing about rear ends but I know my other trucks would leave two black marks on the road. I really like the 97 and would like for it to have a LSD. I would like to know what it would cost for the conversion to LSD also and what type of shop to do the work. It is used as a daily driver mostly but I still work it at times and don't really want to get stuck in wet grass with one wheel on a hard surface. I have done searches on LSD but I really know nothing in regards to them. Looking for info . Indianapolis Indiana area. Thanks and Happy Holidays, Brian

 

[ewcmr2]

Under the hood on the options sticker my truck (with LSD) says DSA = Limited Slip Differential. There is also a sheet metal tag bolted to the rear diff cover that says something like "add lsd additive" or something to that effect.

 

[budnate]

it takes about a $1000 to stick one in, the factory limited slip unit is $6 bills new on a good buy, and 2 new carrier bearings and some shop labor to set it up, blows a grand fast.

 

[RLHannink]

Just got quoted $1400 a few days ago to "rebuild" the LSD in my 97 5spd. Apparently the LSD (forgot whether it was the trac-loc or power-loc) used in the 97 Dana 80's isn't supported for replacement parts anymore and they needa put an all new one in. Might be a different story with the Dana 70's. I'm gonna try restacking the clutches before I drop that much dough. Or just deal with it slipping a little.

 

[budnate]

you can get the clutch packs new, I just replaced mine in my '98 factory dana 70 unit, I think they were $200 if I recall right.

 

[SRath]

If you are going to spend several hundred dollars, don't mess around and just install a Detroit Locker and be done with it. No limited slip comes close in effectiveness, strength, or maintainance-free durability.

 

[RLHannink]

Thought about a Detroit, still am, for the reasons mentioned. I had a TrueTrac in my 75 F100, and it banged and clanged alot and totally blew out a few times, the last one of those I'll ever pay for. I could just imagine what a "real" Detroit would be like behind a Cummins. Maybe someone with alot of experience with one could enlighten me more about daily driving with one, versus a LSD. I hate banging and clanging, got enough sounds to worry about after 300K...

 

[Missouri Mule]

chopperman, jack the back end up and spin one wheel if reg rear the opposite wheel will turn in opposite direction.

 

[budnate]

been there with lockers, and a torsen as well that thing was junk, lockers are cool for off road, no good in the northwest for dailing driving wet roads, snowing conditions, I like a LSD diff if there maintained they work great and are safe on the wet roads we drive on, in a real tight turn I can feal mine working, its very tight and is bone stock no mods.



if you have a quality LSD I guarantee you it will posi both rear tires on dry pavement if you have enough suds to the ground. and will for sure posi off road all day long

 

[SRath]

Limited slips/posi's will leave you stuck just when you need them most. I have put many thousands of street and highway miles on Detroit Locker equipped pickups, in snow, ice, rain, mud, and dry pavement with NO problems and very few "noises". Every blue moon or so, if you power through a corner on dry pavement, it might BANG! like you just left pieces strewn down the road behind you. It will scare the crap out of you and remind you to NOT power through dry-pavement corners, but that's all. Months or even years will go by before it happens again. It does no damage to the Detroit.



Click this link POWERTRAX BY RICHMOND VIDEO DEMOS and then the middle demo video to watch how worthless even TWO limited slips differentials are on a big, bad Cummins Dodge compared to just ONE locker on a 2wd pickup. This shows a Powr Trax locker, but it functions just like a Detroit, though it lacks a Detroit's proven and legendary strength.



Watch that little old 2-wheel drive Ford kick that big, bad cummins dodge's butt... Now imagine the rollers are snow, ice, mud, or another slippery surface and tell me how great a limited slip is. I have a Power Lok limited slip in my dodge dana 80 and I scorn it. And they are supposed to be the best limited slip available.

 

[ewcmr2]

The Ford in the video went over the rollers with inertia and never gave it the gas to show if the locker was working. I'm not saying that the Detroit/Powertrax lockers don't work just that that video was advertising not data collection...

 

[chopperman]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I appreciate the responces. i'not sure what I'm going to do as of ye but I'll keep you posted. Happy Holidays, Brian

 

[SRath]

"Inertia" had nothing to do with it, except the lockered 2 wheel drive was able to maintain his while the rollers stopped the limited slip trucks COLD.



If you don't like that fact, just wait until it happens to you in real life in the middle of nowhere. You will cuss that limited slip no end. Especially if you have ever driven a locker-equipped truck. No comparison at all. I could go places in 2wd with my Detroited Chevy that my buddies with limited slips could not touch even in 4wd. Boy, do I ever miss it!



My own limited slip dodge experiences include: Just get one wheel in the air, such as crossing a small washout or creek, and you and a limited slip will be calling for help (from your nephew's piece o' crap ford, which you will never hear the end of ) instead of hunting that remote location. Just get one wheel up on top of a pile of snow you are plowing, and you will be digging. this has happened to me many times. And it is frustrating as can be when you still have the other wheel on solid ground. Sure, go ahead and play with your brakes as some people will suggest to get power transferred to the wheel with traction; but it won't do you any good. Limited slips are for street vehicles. Cars. Just don't park with one wheel on a patch of glare ice. They only work when both wheels have traction. Then they are great for leaving dual burnouts. But a locker is even better.



Just go back to the glorious years of musclecars. GM's "12 bolt posi" was no match at all for a factory "No Slip" (Detroit Locker) Ford when it came to strength and traction. And I am a Chevy man.



Ask yourself why the military spec'ed all their one ton Chevy pickups with Detroit Lockers. Chevy trucks were readily available with GovLok lockers, but those flywheel lockers were not strong enough, though many thousands of civilian pickups came with them, too.



If you want uncompromised traction AND strength AND maintainence-free reliability in a streetable vehicle, there is simply no substitute for a Detroit. Just ask their biggest competitor, Eaton. They bought TracTech, maker of the Detroit Locker. Why would they if they could offer anything better?

 

[ewcmr2]

"Inertia" had nothing to do with it,

Hmm, maybe I shouldn't have been given a passing grade in Jr high science. Did they change/disprove that "an object in motion tends to stay in motion" theory while I wasn't looking?



Watch the video from 50-55 sec. Then watch from 1:06 to 1:07, then on to 1:11.



The LSD 4x4 truck takes 5 seconds to get onto the rollers, the locker truck takes 1 second. The locker truck covers the entire set of rollers in 5 seconds. The locker truck was going 4x faster (wheelbase rounding)



Send me the $$ and I'll make a video showing my new super-hyper traction system that will enable a car to drive over 100' of rollers in 1 second. I just need the rollers, safe site, video crew and a rental car. The super-hyper drive is so good I'll do it uphill with the engine OFF! :-laf

 

[SRath]

Convince yourself of anything you wish. Limited slips suck compared to lockers. I would give you a running start onto those rollers. You would only make it if you had enough speed and a short set of rollers. Then I would take a lockered 2wd truck, stop at the ramp beginning, drive all the way down them, stop again, then back up all the way, too, and NEVER spin a tire. You could not even begin to do that with 2 limited slips. But you would learn just how limited they really are and how much they really do slip. Talk about advertising your weaknesses...

 

[DieselDoghouse]

TWO limited slips!!! I thought that was called LOSS OF STEERAGE!! LSD (or ASD per Chrysler) vs. lockers — if either is so great how come they aren't featured on John Deere, Ford, M/F — you get my drift. All these 'rides' feature ON DEMAND traction locking. Besides ARB (a good unit per reports) where are our Eaton e-lockers for Dana axles?? That's where I'm goin when I replace my ASD!!!

 

[Texis]

I have had no problems with my OEM LS other than the additive get's worn out after about 100K. The truck starts pushing through turns because the rear end is not disengaging. Replace the oil and add a new bottle of additive and it resumes normal cornering behavior.

 

[SRath]

But it also slips easier, Texis. So you have your choice: increased clutch wear (and it is bad enough with the new fiber clutches vs, the old all-steel clutches) and better engagement; or very limited engagement and smooth operation and you still wear out the clutches too fast imo.



If a limited slip has never left you stranded, it is only because you haven't gone anywhere challenging.



Unfortunately, when eaton bought Tractec (Detroit), they both had their new and different versions of electric lockers. The Eaton E-locker is an open diff when unlocked and is not available for a dana 60, probably because it lacks the strength.



The Detroit Electrax was a great concept, but discontinued after the buyout as far as I can tell. It was clutchless, smooth and transparent, auburn-style limited slip when unlocked, and full-blown locker at the flick of a switch. It was available for a front dana 60, too.



Eaton got rid of the wrong e-locker, imo. Too bad.

 

[Texis]

If I ever have a problem I would more than likely go back with a Detroit locker, live with it... and be done with it.

 

[Extreme1]

I put a LSD into my Dana 80 for almost nothing ($50 +fluids) and for what I need it works. But I know better than to take my truck off road (not counting lakes in the winter).



I got stuck after the LSD install but before the clutches got over having too much additive in the factory fill which is why the original owner got rid of it. (He got a Detroit). I pulled over to the flat edge of a country road on top of a hill and the right tires (all 3) dropped into a small eroded "stream" that was about 3" wide x 6" deep. The left tires were on the road. I had to call for a tow.



I'd love to get a Detroit but it's not in the cards financially. The truck does do great burnouts as it is though...



I think the video would be more convincing if the Ford driver would have driven on slower and maybe stopped in the middle. Heck, the reverse drop would have been really impressive on the rollers.