Lion into a Lamb 325-600 question

[Bickford]

Hello,



I to just bought a new 2004. 5 CTD SLT LWB HO sport package 325-600 Truck. This is the third new CTD Dodge in as many years. I feel in the seat of my pants that this new truck really rolls along. More so than my last truck a new 2003 CTD SRW LWB SLT six speed 305- 555 did. I can also state that my past 2003 HO bone stock Truck, pulling a four or five thousand pound Trailer at speeds over fifty five miles per hour. My fuel mileage suffered. After it was broken in, while pulling the above Trailer running in sixth gear at eighty to one hundred and ten MPH. On the loose gravel road from Quebec to Happy Vally Goose Bay Labrador, Canada. I saw an all time low of eleven MPG. I also recorded fuel mileage above twenty two MPG city and country. On paper done by hand, filled to the top each fill up. If you were empty and always shifted below fifteen hundred RPM. Plus you could never push it over sixty five MPH, on the flat open road.



Well folks my question to this forum is. What do you think of a dial on the dash that would allow the owner to tone down what ever is hurting the fuel mileage in our new 325-600 trucks. To turn our 325-600 Lions into 250? >> 305-555 Lambs.

I don't know enough about how all of the engine control gadgets plus the new Cat working together to turn up the HP numbers. But I have read in the past what real the required horse power number is needed to pull / push a American car down the road at 55 MPH. I'm sure in our trucks it isn't 325HP 600 FP torque @ the rated speeds.



Talking for myself, I don't pull a trailer very often. Yes it's a lot of fun to push down on the go pedal and look behind you and see two black long tire paths. Until you need to replace them at twenty five thousand miles at over two hundred bucks each and the big $$$ fill ups.



Looking back (in 1978) when I was working at GM. I drove a 1977 GM straight six heavy half ton pick up Truck. It ran great, would go almost the exact same top speed as this 2004. 5 325-600 CTD does. But... I had to sell it because the OPEC fuel shortage / high fuel costs were killing me. (sound familiar) If I remember right that old GM Truck returned only fifteen miles per gallon on the open road running empty at 60 MPH. I had hoped that in the last 26. 5 years I would have smartened up enough not to go back wards.



One last note. My first new CTD Truck was a 2002 225HP LWB four door than ran perfect. Sure it was loud and smoked a little, I liked the auto transmission and the 3. 51 rear gear. When I picked it up, I was all proud thinking... Man I can pull any thing with this Truck. Plus I know it will last a very very long time with proper care. Feeling on top of the world until the last thing the Salesman said was... If you ever use this Truck to Tow you MUST push this button to lock out the over drive / forth gear.



Just for the fun of it, I pushed that button in at over seventy miles per hour. What a shock the tach jumped to 3200 RPM at or near the red line! When I bought this 2004. 5 325-600 the same Salesman stated... Oh yeah don't ever Tow anything with your truck in forth gear. What the SMEG!!! the reason I didn't buy an auto transmission Truck in 2003 was I couldn't find one with the the new new wiz bang 48A Transmission. So to get the then HO 305-555 engine, I bought the six speed 3500 SRW Truck. Now one year later, I hear the same speech from the Salesman. Well if we all did as requested by the owners manual and Mother MOPAR / DC, all of the sudden our great new world class Trucks fall way short of working well in todays 70 MPH speed limits.



What do you think the fuel mileage would be if every new Dodge CTD 325-600 or any other Dodge CTD set up Truck seen towing on the road with the auto transmission was left in third gear while towing at 70? Now that would be a Heart / Wallet / Bank breaker. For those on this Forum that are posting very poor CTD 325-600 MPG fuel numbers, are You towing in third gear? If so they must be running at or on the rev limiter near 24 /7 on the open road.



Take care, God Bless.

2004. 5 Silver four door SLT CTD LWB 2500 325-600

1969 Plymouth Road Runner

1975 Bricklin

1986 Dodge mule pick up truck with a 392ci Hemi engine

 

[Forrest Nearing]

ditching the cat will probably put you right up there with your previous truck as far as MPG



Forrest

 

[Loaded 45]

I have drove a few 04. 5 s , and yes flooring one going down the highway scared the hell out of me - could not wait to get back in my 03 lamb.



To be real honest I personally cant tell the difference between a 555 ho & a 600 . The auto is faster off the line on both - with me driving anyway.

 

[Ol'TrailDog]

I can't help but wonder if this guy is trolling for 555 flames, spraying smack, or delusional?



Lion :-laf :-laf :-laf

 

[Rosco]

I like his fuel consumption rational while towing a travel trailer at speed's up to 110mph .

 

[Bickford]

I can't help but wonder if this guy is trolling for 555 flames, spraying smack, or delusional



Well I'm not trolling for 555 flames. As a matter of fact my 2003 HO six speed worked alright. The reason I traded the six speed for the 2004. 5 with the auto transmission is: I'm a 100% Disabled now retired from active duty. From the US Coast Guard. I have had three surgery's on my feet and other operations that made shifting the six speed murder on my Feet, Leg and Hips.

As far as spraying smack: In the few years that I have been a TDR member and the very few posts (under twenty) that I have made. I have only stated facts. I have had my 1969 Road Runner for over seventeen years. With its 440 engine making 451HP it now gets just six miles to the gallon. This is no fault of the Plymouth company. I myself did all of the modifications making my car into what I wanted. (just as many TDR members make lots of personal changes to there Trucks). With the past three new Dodge trucks my 2002 had a few issues from day one. I chose to buy my second 2003 HO six speed knowing it to has a all new design. It also had many different issues and went back to the dealer five times under warranty. My third new Dodge 2004. 5 Truck runs very well. My fuel mileage after the first month is 14. 1 MPG combined. I have never altered any of the above three trucks. besides mud flaps and a new topper.

As far as being delusional >>> de lu'sion : A belief maintained in face of incontrovertible evidence to the contrary. If you can state incontrovertible evidence to the contrary to my above posts, please feel free to. I can say that our auto transmissions do not lock up in the engine lower near lugging range to allow the truck to be powered by the lower Hp and Torque that someone trying to baby some great in town fuel mileage. Like shifting at below 1500 rpm!!! As each and every (2003 and up) five or six speed CTD owner would have to do to state fuel mileage numbers above twenty miles per gallon. I know as I have kept the fuel records for all three new CTD trucks from new. Also after all the years that Dodge has sold the CTD engine/ auto transmission package does't it seem strange that we are still told to never tow in forth gear? If I were to tow my 3700lb Plymouth on my open flat bed twenty foot trailer. The combined weight of 5000lbs would be considered a light load. Yet the only time I trailered it from Florida to New York and back. I left the 2002 CTD auto trans 225HP Truck in forth gear a big no - no. On many hills in the Smokey Mountains the transmission would shift down to third gear and jump to the red-line. To be fair my 2003 HO six speed Truck pulling a six thousand pound trailer would have needed a lot more power to climb some of the steep hills and inclines in Nova Scotia. Even in third gear. I now know why so many members have chipped and bombed there trucks! If my Truck was paid for, I would be first in line for a twin turbo set up. But with my luck the first chip that I added would smoke my new engine. Before I make the first of the remaining sixty payments! The reason for my post is I know that many companies offer a way to boost the HP & Torque. Well I feel that the last three new Dodge Trucks have all performed as needed. I also believe that who ever bought my last two trucks got very nice used trucks. I haven't spent over $90,000. 00 on three new Dodge CTD Trucks (before trade in valves) to pitch a *****.

Well if anyone feels that this new 2004. 5 HO auto truck will ever get the same fuel mileage as a 2003 HO CTD six speed well you would really be de lu'sion al. Also as far as removing our Cats >>> I used to drive my 1986 Dodge full size Truck with a 1970 440 six pack engine, 727 transmission on the street. At the time here in Florida they started yearly Emissions testing. So I had a custom made duel Cat system made for the truck. I also had to find a small enough single carb and a different intake to pass the sniffer / smog test. Then remove all of the smog parts and turn it back into a decent truck (each year before and after) for the testing. To make a long story short those that try to make there trucks into more than the Law allows end up spending more time and money than they ever planed on. I have learned from experience what it takes to move a full size Dodge Truck down the road at a very fast car pace.

It also seems that I write like like I speak. I do enjoy reading our TDR Forum. I will also continue to be courtious and never try to rip any members a new one.



Good Night, God Bless

 

[klenger]

Not all 600's are getting bad milage.

 

[NBowlin]

are you wanting something like a vallet switch? what it sounds like to me. if so i am sure someone can do a better job explaining it to you than i can. dont know if they do it for the new trucks yet or not. i have one from piers on my 98 12v.

 

[Prairie Dog]

Mr. Bickford, you drive 110 WITH A TRAILER and your concerned with mileage?:-laf

The dyno results I've seen have shown the the 600 make some where between 10 HP less and 14 HP more than a 555 depending on the truck and where it was dyno'd. I can add 20 hp just by turning the TST to 1/1 and at that level the difference is extremely minimal. A simple air cleaner change will bring a 555 up above the output of many 600's. The difference is just not that great.

 

[DPelletier]

Prairie Dog is right,

- 1st off, the difference in power your feeling is due to the exceleration capabilities of the 48RE equipped truck compared to the NV-5600 truck. Not saying the 600's don't have more power, just that it isn't alot and is unlikely to be very noticable compared to a 305/555 truck.

- 2nd, you may want to consider slowing down!

- 3rd, I don't think they made a 225hp truck in '02, so was it an ETC (235/460) or an ETH (245/505)?

- Lastly, it sounds to me that if you really want to tow that fast that you need to look at modifying the truck to produce enough power to pull in OD at the speeds you want to go. I towed in OD with my '01 ETC auto when conditions allowed it. If you are concerned about the transmission holding up when towing in OD, talk to one of the transmission vendor/gurus.



Cheers,

Dave



PS. I don't really consider my truck to be a lamb. Running at 17,800 GCVW in hilly BC and am happy with the stock engine at the present time.

 

[RedDieselDawg]

I see the hook and I hear the line, but I'm not gonna bite this time,



Better watch out for my lil' ole Lamb, it's Baaaaaaaahd. Them there are words of instigation, because there is no logic to making so much about so little.

 

[Matt400]

I pull in OD all the time on the flat or slight grades @ 50- 65mph but 70 and above IMO is for unloaded. I get better fuel mileage than a Ford V-6 Ranger I once had.

 

[Ol'TrailDog]

Sorry to hear about the disability. Not many folks like to think of their CTDs as Lambs, even the D250s. SOME may even think: you can insult my wife, kick my dog, but don't dis my truck. Not me though. They all are special.



Probably be easier to get a 2004 Lamb with a 48re and put a fueling box on it for those times you want to feel like a tiger. Or put a block of wood behind the go pedal of your 600.



Sort of feel like I took a stick and ran it back and forth on the bars of the lion's cage.



backada. . backada. . backada... backada. . ROARUMPH!



But now that you have repented for dissing the Lamb owners and I have repented for getting you riled up... . we can go on and enjoy.

 

[Bickford]

Thank You all for you inputs.



Its just a sore spot, needing to drop down into third gear when towing. Needless of the speed, grade or load?. That would mean WE wouldn't even be able to keep up with the 70 MPH posted traffic. Let alone climb a grade with out putting on our four way flashers! Sit back and think what type of fuel mileage our Trucks get at near redline towing in third gear, at the posted 70 MPH highway speeds.

What say You, should we just leave our transmissions in forth gear while towing and look to rebuild it some time down the road?



I know that there are no free lunchs. As I have needed to rebuild the 727 transmission in my 1969 440ci Road Runner to stand uo to the new engines output. Now I have no plans on Chipping, NOS or Bombing my Truck. And if I were to tow a 5K load at the stated 70 MPH speed limit. Should I look forward to rebuilding my 48 series Transmission soon?

I can understand the potential of the huge loads, we could pull with our CTD powered Trucks. As many TDR members state GV Weights that I personally would never want to drag around.



I have a old 32' 454 powered, 1990 Fleetwood Southwind Class A RV / gas Hog for that!



I'm not bad mouthing or Flaming anyone.



You see after buying three new CTD Dodge Trucks, I feel that I have paid a few Dues. I also understand that people like myself. That take a chance on the new all new model year Rams (2003 HO 3500 & 2004. 5 HO 2500 325-600). Pave the way for those Ram owners who come after US.



If We didn't bring issues to light... who would? How would our great Trucks ever improve? The Toyota and Nissan plus the Chevy and Ford dealers would love to lure us all away from our CTD powered Dodge Trucks.



My present CTD Truck is by far the best Dodge that I have ever owned. And I have owned more than a few like: a 1959 Christen, 1965 Coronet, three 1969 Super Bees, 1970 RT Cuda then two ex Police cars and even a few K cars. More than likely I will end up keeping my new 2004. 5 Dodge. Just as I have kept my 1986 Full size Ram truck. You know the year, they had thin metal on the top edges of the roof. Poor paint and other issues... But look how far Our Trucks have come.



God Bless, Take Care.