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Lithia Dodge has Failed to Honor Warranty
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IMHO, Dave I believe it's time to step it up a notch... ... ... . Keep the pressure on... all TDR members and future dodge owners should immediately boycott any business with this dealership and it's affiliates.Keep us posted
Ok, I've read the thread, seems that the problem started way back in 2005 or earlier, the root cause of the problem has never been addressed, the dealer shops have just been band-aiding it until the warranty ran out, I'll start this boycott list here, when this list gets long enough someone might pay some attention... just add your name
(1). W. McGuire
It seems many dealership mechanics are just as ignorant, befuddled and inept over electronics issues as the owners are. It also appears the dealerships only send a small percentage of their service staff for in-depth training - and you're dern lucky if you get one of them instead of the shop apprentice to work on YOUR truck.
My truck came with larger than specified tires, and my dealership didn't have a clue as to how to check or adjust the speedometer to compensate. And yeah, it's not just DC - my brother in law's 06 Ford was in the shop 4 times over a CES light - mechanics were at a loss, could see the specific code, but didn't know what needed to be done to correct the problem, so just started swapping whatever related component in the affected system they had handy. They finally, on the 4th try and after lots of time and dealership $$$, replaced a simple intake air pressure sensor, and the problem was fixed.
Sure wish I had the $$$ wasted by dealership "experts" by replacing perfectly GOOD parts as they tried to "swap" their way to actually curing a problem - I'd be able to continue my retirement in a FAR grander scale... :-laf :-laf
The thread is this one.
I just edited my first post in that thread to add a link to allow readers to look at Warranty Information Booklets for 1997-2007 Rams. After reading through the Warranty Information Booklet for 2003 Ram 2500's/3500's it looks to me as though Daimler Chrysler is trying to take even more Cummins/Ram owners for a ride. It sure looks to me as though "the Cummins Diesel Engine Limited Warranty begins at the end of the 3/36 Basic Limited Warranty. "
Sorry to be quiet on this end folks - no updates yet. Dave had to get to Tulsa for a horse show (his business as a trainer), using a borrowed truck - his is still at Lithia.
The lawyer thing is going slow - most that Dave has talked to are Lemon Law specific, which does not apply in this case. Interesting though - that there is enough Lemon Law business to keep a few lawyers busy. Wonder what the lemon stats are and what brands/dealers they are fighting!?
More when something pops here - I think some relevant info later this week.
thanks for the info above on lawyer insurance, and to get all costs in writing up front!
jon.
The lawyer thing is going slow - most that Dave has talked to are Lemon Law specific, which does not apply in this case. Interesting though - that there is enough Lemon Law business to keep a few lawyers busy. Wonder what the lemon stats are and what brands/dealers they are fighting!?
More when something pops here - I think some relevant info later this week.
thanks for the info above on lawyer insurance, and to get all costs in writing up front!
jon.
Why not just tow it over to a Cummins and see what the Pro's have to say ... .
#1 you need to find out if the repair on the crank to start with is a valid repair.
#2 go whith there advise, if its not a valid fix then sue, and or use the lawyer route... if it is a good fix, then move on to the issues at hand.
I dont know how long a crank RR would take or the costs but I think that should have been the correct repair to begin with
Good luck
#1 you need to find out if the repair on the crank to start with is a valid repair.
#2 go whith there advise, if its not a valid fix then sue, and or use the lawyer route... if it is a good fix, then move on to the issues at hand.
I dont know how long a crank RR would take or the costs but I think that should have been the correct repair to begin with
Good luck
As a former service writer for Lithia and the local Nissan dealership I offer the following:
-the "warranty that was not transferred is an extended service contract, the warranty coverage in question is the Powertrain warranty, odds are there is no coverage for the oil pan gasket.
-In my limited experience in the car business, any employee is greedy first, and worried about the customer last, to quote Elmer Gonzales (Nissan Service Advisor) We are here to make money not friends.
-In Calif. if you buy a used car it is buyer beware. Seems that the truck ran for 20k before problem occured, even if faulty workmanship, therefore the selling dealer could not be aware. Lithia only does the basic safety inspection, and oil change before putting cars on the lot.
-Trained diesel techs are a premium. Lithia will not pay market rate for a good one, and it is at each Service Managers whim if he will pay to have the tech. "factory trained".
-Our shop rate is $125. 00 and this oil pan job should only cost around $250. 00. It seems that the shop is trying to recover the excessive diagnostic time the non-factory trained, tech. took to find what he feels might be the problem.
-The cost for the Motor will most likely be around $10k, over the small claims amount for most states.
-Whenever you tell anyone in the car business that you expect anything, don't hold your breath. Usually the dealer personnel are so self esteem challenged that they will take it personally, start ignoring you, and will not make any effort to help.
-The service manager has the authority to make the repair, incur the actual cost, and chalk it up to goodwill.
-The techs are paid commission based on an hourly rate, ie lof is . 5 hrs, so the tech will receive half of his hourly rate for the job. With this system the tech, who does not have the education or factory training, will not waste his time trying to correctly diagnose a problem because the factory warranty will not pay him for the diagnostic. This is the major problem with all the dealers, not just Lithia.
These insights are not offered to defend Lithia, but to help shed some light on the issue from the dealers side. IMHO this service manager could have eliminated this entire issue by hiring a competent diesel tech on a good salary so he could actually fix this truck instead of letting it sit while the customer pay jobs(highest profitability) got done. Unfortunatly we have to go to the dealer to get warranty work and most extended service contract work done. Your best friend and advocate for any service matter is your service advisor, unfortunatly they are also paid on commission and are charged with extracting as much as possible from you. Thus I would not sell out my integrity, honesty, or morals and have walked away for the car business.
I hope that this info. helps out.
-the "warranty that was not transferred is an extended service contract, the warranty coverage in question is the Powertrain warranty, odds are there is no coverage for the oil pan gasket.
-In my limited experience in the car business, any employee is greedy first, and worried about the customer last, to quote Elmer Gonzales (Nissan Service Advisor) We are here to make money not friends.
-In Calif. if you buy a used car it is buyer beware. Seems that the truck ran for 20k before problem occured, even if faulty workmanship, therefore the selling dealer could not be aware. Lithia only does the basic safety inspection, and oil change before putting cars on the lot.
-Trained diesel techs are a premium. Lithia will not pay market rate for a good one, and it is at each Service Managers whim if he will pay to have the tech. "factory trained".
-Our shop rate is $125. 00 and this oil pan job should only cost around $250. 00. It seems that the shop is trying to recover the excessive diagnostic time the non-factory trained, tech. took to find what he feels might be the problem.
-The cost for the Motor will most likely be around $10k, over the small claims amount for most states.
-Whenever you tell anyone in the car business that you expect anything, don't hold your breath. Usually the dealer personnel are so self esteem challenged that they will take it personally, start ignoring you, and will not make any effort to help.
-The service manager has the authority to make the repair, incur the actual cost, and chalk it up to goodwill.
-The techs are paid commission based on an hourly rate, ie lof is . 5 hrs, so the tech will receive half of his hourly rate for the job. With this system the tech, who does not have the education or factory training, will not waste his time trying to correctly diagnose a problem because the factory warranty will not pay him for the diagnostic. This is the major problem with all the dealers, not just Lithia.
These insights are not offered to defend Lithia, but to help shed some light on the issue from the dealers side. IMHO this service manager could have eliminated this entire issue by hiring a competent diesel tech on a good salary so he could actually fix this truck instead of letting it sit while the customer pay jobs(highest profitability) got done. Unfortunatly we have to go to the dealer to get warranty work and most extended service contract work done. Your best friend and advocate for any service matter is your service advisor, unfortunatly they are also paid on commission and are charged with extracting as much as possible from you. Thus I would not sell out my integrity, honesty, or morals and have walked away for the car business.
I hope that this info. helps out.
Last edited by a moderator:
Fliuddampr?
Jon, I think it would better for you to either A; Take it to a Cummins shop, or B; Take it to an independant Diesel shop.
I gather from reading your post that Lithia replaced Helicoiled your vibe damper bolts, becuse your damper was lose, and the bolt holes were damaged. Then they changed your damper. You are getting those codes due to the damper not being on "Straight", and the oil leak is most likely the crank seal. I'd think that a Local Diesel Shop (Speed or HD Truck) would be able to come up with a repair that does'nt involve changing the crank. If were mine and I can look at it, I'd get a "Fluidampr" Balancer; http://www.fluidampr.com/CUMMINS.htm With the "Drill Pin" kit. Also, change the Front crank seal, too. Just my two cents, Moose
Jon, I think it would better for you to either A; Take it to a Cummins shop, or B; Take it to an independant Diesel shop.
I gather from reading your post that Lithia replaced Helicoiled your vibe damper bolts, becuse your damper was lose, and the bolt holes were damaged. Then they changed your damper. You are getting those codes due to the damper not being on "Straight", and the oil leak is most likely the crank seal. I'd think that a Local Diesel Shop (Speed or HD Truck) would be able to come up with a repair that does'nt involve changing the crank. If were mine and I can look at it, I'd get a "Fluidampr" Balancer; http://www.fluidampr.com/CUMMINS.htm With the "Drill Pin" kit. Also, change the Front crank seal, too. Just my two cents, Moose
Thank the previous few - great idea to let the Board know, how to print this thread, and the investor relations for Lithia! Nice. Publicly traded, interesting slant. A quick look at LAD stock shows what we would all expect - in the last 5 years, it has actually lost ground. Given that this country is an automobile culture/economy/way of life - that is, ahem, sad.
An update. Finally.
Joe Rossi, in the email list from post #2 of this thread, called Dave while Dave was driving back from Tulsa mid-last week. Dave is in a borrowed truck, his it at Lithia Santa Fe waiting on a $750 oil pan gasket that is causing is CKS to fail (not!). Joe Rossi is the Director of Customer Satisfaction, Lithia Corporate.
Mr Rossi offers to get the truck back to Dave by April 11, all seals fixed at Lithia expense, and they think it is the oil leaks contaminating the sensor. Mr Rossi explained he was on vacation and got to this issue as soon as he could when he returned, and is "appalled" at the situation, and contradicts through his actions a bunch of Alisha's email (above) where everthing was denied, etc.
So, yesterday, 11-Apr, Dave got his truck back. I have not seen the service ticket, I understand the oil pan and front crank seal are replaced. Dave, in his infinite patience, payed for the front pinion seal. Granted, that seal has nothing to do with the rest of the issue, but cripes folks, some goodwill? This truck was in Santa Fe Lithia since 3/23 - just BEFORE the this thread started. 2. 5 weeks, going on three. Again. Seals were fixed, the truck was driven 16 miles, no leaks, no CKS code, and Dave picked it up.
Mr Rossi was apologetic, and helped Dave. He promised that if the problem rears its head again that they will fly a Chrysler diesel tech to take a look at the issue and fix it. This is what should have been done the first time - or the second time at the latest! At least there is action and communication, so Dave is giving it a chance, and is thankful.
My advice to Dave is to have Lithia sell him a new 3500 quad 4x4 dually at cost, take his 2003 at wholesale (not trade-in, and not accounting for an injured engine), and then knock 4 months of payments off the price to account for the 4 months his has been in the shop while Dave still paid. Then throw a low interest rate at him (1. 9%) to make up for the hassle.
So, the truck is on the road. Like always, it will be a bit, but I will update this saga.
thanks all,
jon.
An update. Finally.
Joe Rossi, in the email list from post #2 of this thread, called Dave while Dave was driving back from Tulsa mid-last week. Dave is in a borrowed truck, his it at Lithia Santa Fe waiting on a $750 oil pan gasket that is causing is CKS to fail (not!). Joe Rossi is the Director of Customer Satisfaction, Lithia Corporate.
Mr Rossi offers to get the truck back to Dave by April 11, all seals fixed at Lithia expense, and they think it is the oil leaks contaminating the sensor. Mr Rossi explained he was on vacation and got to this issue as soon as he could when he returned, and is "appalled" at the situation, and contradicts through his actions a bunch of Alisha's email (above) where everthing was denied, etc.
So, yesterday, 11-Apr, Dave got his truck back. I have not seen the service ticket, I understand the oil pan and front crank seal are replaced. Dave, in his infinite patience, payed for the front pinion seal. Granted, that seal has nothing to do with the rest of the issue, but cripes folks, some goodwill? This truck was in Santa Fe Lithia since 3/23 - just BEFORE the this thread started. 2. 5 weeks, going on three. Again. Seals were fixed, the truck was driven 16 miles, no leaks, no CKS code, and Dave picked it up.
Mr Rossi was apologetic, and helped Dave. He promised that if the problem rears its head again that they will fly a Chrysler diesel tech to take a look at the issue and fix it. This is what should have been done the first time - or the second time at the latest! At least there is action and communication, so Dave is giving it a chance, and is thankful.
My advice to Dave is to have Lithia sell him a new 3500 quad 4x4 dually at cost, take his 2003 at wholesale (not trade-in, and not accounting for an injured engine), and then knock 4 months of payments off the price to account for the 4 months his has been in the shop while Dave still paid. Then throw a low interest rate at him (1. 9%) to make up for the hassle.
So, the truck is on the road. Like always, it will be a bit, but I will update this saga.
thanks all,
jon.
What about the crankshaft problem? With those helicoils it will be out of balance, unless they rebalanced it, which I know they didn't do. Sounds to me like they made an attempt to appease him right now. However, those helicoils will continue to cause him problems in the crankshaft. I'm not saying this to rock the boat. But, I am an ASE certified Master Engine Machinest and the balance issue will not just disapear. It can hide as long as he doesn't run high rpms. However, none of these engines run real high RPMs. But, it would be interesting to see how much those few extra grams turn in to in respect to pounds as the RPM's go up from the idle point.
Interesting thread. I live in Medford and WILL NOT buy a truck or car from Lithia. I always go north to buy my cars and trucks. Just last week I did contact Lithia to see if they got any 6. 7's and told them I was interested in one and after 3 days no one ever called me back so i went down there and told them my thoughts and they had the balls to try to sell me a 5. 9 "A 6. 7 is just a bored out 5. 9". I don't care if the only thing that has changed on the truck is the floor mats ITS WHAT I WANT, if I am going to buy a 50k truck then I will get what I want. They don't listen to you or what you want, and they don't come down much either on price. I have ordered from Adam at Dishman.
Ok the service department. I have very good relations with these guys and have no complaints at all. Someone mentioned Travis as one of the service managers and yes he is very good and and has always took care of me. The mechanic named Warren is very good also and has went the extra mile. They did replace my VP44 fuel pump with 98k on the truck. So service department gets a thumbs up from me. The robot sales staff no way. I was going to mention giving Lithia a signature list here of all the members to get this problem taken care of, I would have hand delivered it my self for you. Right now it sounds like they are taking care of the problem. Lets hope it doesn't have any more problems.
Ok the service department. I have very good relations with these guys and have no complaints at all. Someone mentioned Travis as one of the service managers and yes he is very good and and has always took care of me. The mechanic named Warren is very good also and has went the extra mile. They did replace my VP44 fuel pump with 98k on the truck. So service department gets a thumbs up from me. The robot sales staff no way. I was going to mention giving Lithia a signature list here of all the members to get this problem taken care of, I would have hand delivered it my self for you. Right now it sounds like they are taking care of the problem. Lets hope it doesn't have any more problems.
I agree I would just turn around and trade it in to them for a new one. "Since its fixed"
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Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
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Renew
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Back Issues
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