Long range target shooting

[illflem]

Thanks Chad,the only one I can't figure out is why not shoot at an ejected pilot?Seems sort of silly to have a "safe zone".

 

[Chad Sheets]

I agree. If the guy was in his plane, he would be trying to kill you, right? Must be some gentleman aproach to things I guess. All of these rules were made up by the Geneva Convention. All who participated had some sort of say in the rules, some more than others. Kind of like the old days when sword fighter would fight to the death... unless the other guy dropped his sword. It was considered wrong to kill an unarmed man. Sort of like our cowboy heros who never would shoot a guy in the back, and if they did they were called a coward. Same idea I think.

 

[The patriot]

Chad, FYI the 30 cal (7. 62mm) has been ok'ed for use with a BTHP bullet if a sniper is using it.
New ammo designation is: M-118 LR.
It's a Sierra 175 Gr BTHP loaded to about 2700 FPS. It is said to be stable in the 1/12" twist barrels.
Resoning is, it's not "specifically made to be frangable". I believe this was OK'ed about 2 yrs ago.
It was developed by the Marines, but adopted by all branches.
A little off subject. Just some more useless info. #ad

Eric

 

['956Wheel]

Originally posted by Chad Sheets:
All sorts of rules. Most are good, if everyone plays by them.

Only NATO rounds allowed to be shot at people. No modified weapons or rounds. Weapons and rounds are designed to kill, any modification is taboo.

Chad, I have always heard that ammo is not designed to kill, i. e. spire point, no hollow points. The idea is to wound cause it takes more troops to tend to the wounded than the dead... they just rot. All NATO rounds, correct me if I'm wrong, are FMJ.


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9535hundred

 

[Chad Sheets]

That's just a way to fight a battle. One shot, one kill... not just a sniper saying. The They were good at that sort of fighting in Viet Nam according to my Dad who was a Marine there from 63-67. They modified their weapons to only maim, not kill. They knew we wouldnt let another American lie in a field and die.

Back when the settlers first came to this Nation there was a parrot like bird that is now extinct. The birds were very beautiful according to records. People would shoot one, and a dozen others would come to its rescue and swarm around it trying to protect it and rescue it. Needless to say it didn't take the settlers long to figure this out and they started shooting the ones that would come to help the dead/wounded bird. It only took less than 100 years for this bird to disappear off the face of the earth. Sad story I think. Makes me wonder how the Marine Corps survives in battle. Because if one is shot, you can bet your bottom dollar there will be some more Marines in to retrieve that dead or wounded Marine. We are like those parrots. Fight one of us, fight us all.

 

['956Wheel]

Originally posted by Chad Sheets:
That's just a way to fight a battle. One shot, one kill... not just a sniper saying.

NATO ROUNDS ARE NOT DESIGNED TO KILL! FMJ IS NEVER USED IN HUNTING, CAUSE IT IS NOT FOR KILLING. Hollowpoints go in like a pencil and come out like a freight train!

Kill ratios are interesting, the American Civil war had a 5 shot to one kill ratio... muzzleloaders (your shot mattered).
Vietnam 6000 to one! Full auto, G. E. miniguns... we were great gardners!

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9535hundred

 

[Chad Sheets]

Two words. BOW HUNTER.
Why do you think the bow hunters are so deadly with an arrow? They know what to aim for. Most hunters just aim center mass. Not always the best place to put a round in.

The targets used for practice in the Marine Corps are "dog" targets, meaning they are a silhouette of a human head and chest cavity. That is where you aim to kill. A FMJ round to the chest or head is going to do more than injure. If hunters were not so worried about mounting heads, I am sure there would be many more head shots going on. Do a search on the Geneva Convention rules of warfare, and you will see that the weapons and rounds must be designed to kill, not injure. If your aim happens to be off and all you get is wing shots, there are no rules against that. Just better hope that wing doesnt heal up and that enemy doesnt come back to pay you a visit. If he was dead it would be a done deal.

[This message has been edited by Chad Sheets (edited 01-27-2001). ]

 

['956Wheel]

Chad, I do not wish to offend but are you trying to say a FMJ is just as deadly as a Hollow point? Then why do we hunt with hollow points? Law enforcement is required to use FMJ & lead, No hollow points, as they are not out there to kill... . says here! #ad


On bow hunting, its all about a large wound channel, that is why most states REQUIRE that a broadhead "fill" their 15/16" gage. If you are caught hunting with less you are fined.

With bullets it's all about hydrostatic shock. big hole for blood to exit. Bow 7 arrow does it in much the same way as a stab wound.

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9535hundred

[This message has been edited by Statland (edited 01-27-2001). ]

 

[Chad Sheets]

With my background in the Marine Corps and law enforcement as a Deputy Sheriff, I can tell you it is considered inhumane to use hollow points on human beings because of the damage it does to a body... a slow and painful death if not shot in the vital kill zones. More suffering etc. They do more harm than good. If wounding an individual was the goal, everyone would run around with shotguns loaded with glass and nails.

If you want to wound someone, shoot at a non life threatening area. If you want to kill, shoot for a kill zone. Its that easy. I dont know all the legal mumbo jumbo to it, but it boils down to a "humane kill". No making hamburger meat out of the enemy or Mr. bankrobber. The truth is its all up to the individual. If you want to kill a guy with a pizza cutter, you can do it. If you want to make a guy suffer with a FMJ or hollow point, you can do that just as easy.

This is the same reason . 50 cal machine guns are not used on people. It is considered inhumane. Countries at war may disagree on certain things, but they often agree on one thing. They want their dead young men sent back home for the family in one piece, with their bodies as intact as possible. Even Hitler would not kill enemy troops inhumanely. He never would allow gas agents to be used on us. Gases that made your lungs blister and throat blister. The blisters would pop and you would slowly drown in your own puss. Blood agents that would take the oxygen out of your blood and suffocate you slowly, miserably and painfully. Make no mistake about it. Slow deaths are not wanted by either side, and that is one of the reasons we have rules of war set up by the Geneva Convention, and this is why our service men must shoot an approved round.

As for the law enforcement side of it, the days of Dirty Harry and a . 44 magnum are over. The public will not tolerate such "overkill's". This is the same reasoning behind the trend of lethal injection. It is considered inhumane by most of the public to electrocute people. The ends dont always justify the means.

 

['956Wheel]

Chad, Read "Hatchers Notebook" and get the facts. Today's "genuises" are only repeating his works, with their own "knowledge" added for flavor. i. e. BULL$HIT. Tastes BAD!

Hollow points are in my home protection piece for stopping power as well as the frag factor to not harm my Dear neighbor!

Semper fi #ad


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9535hundred

 

[Chad Sheets]

Home protection is a whole new ballgame. I am with you. Got hollow points chambered in all the home weapons and the ocasional tracer round to light someones fire with. Dont want to have to explain why my rounds went through the armed burgler, through the interior walls, through the outside wall, accross the street and through the neighbors house.
#ad
Cool or what!


[This message has been edited by Chad Sheets (edited 01-28-2001). ]

 

['956Wheel]

WAY COOL>>>>>>>So hollow points (for all practical purposes wins!! #ad
#ad
Howda do that gun guy... mucho coolo!!

Semper fival

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9535hundred

 

[Switca]

For home defense, a short barreled 12 guage loaded with 000 buck is better. 000 is about a . 30 caliber and you get more shot than 00 buck.

Bullets go through wall board way too easy and you might end up hitting something/someone you did not want to hit in the next room.

000 and even 00 buck will penetrate one layer of wall board, but not two.

Remington 870, 12 guage, 18" barrell, 3 shot extension tube.

 

[zzman]

WOW, this is a strange topic here.

My . 02 worth I guess.

My service days I recall a . 50 cal was the largest round that
could be used on a human. You say a . 30 cal
is the largest now?
Did they throw away all the . 45 then?
Modifying any projectile was against
the rules. But they did show us how to
do it and then said you can't do this.

Bow hunting is great. I live for the hunt,
it is the REAL hunting.

carry on,
"AIRBORNE"

 

[rich m]

Originally posted by zzman:
WOW, this is a strange topic here.

My . 02 worth I guess.

My service days I recall a . 50 cal was the largest round that
could be used on a human. You say a . 30 cal
is the largest now?
Did they throw away all the . 45 then?
Modifying any projectile was against
the rules. But they did show us how to
do it and then said you can't do this.

Bow hunting is great. I live for the hunt,
it is the REAL hunting.

carry on,
"AIRBORNE"

----rifle calibres in the 30-cal neighborhood --the . 45's have been phased out for the 9mm which is in the . 38 neigborhood for a sidearm...