look what brown did for me!!!!!

[nickleinonen]

a few months back now [i guess it was that far back] there was a garrett VNT charger off a series 60 DDC engine on ebay... i was real tempted to pick that up, but as almost every good item they have for sale there, it was "will only ship to usa" which does me no good iirc, it was brand spankin' new, just needed a controller for it [air operated system] man it was a big charger... i wonder how well the little B would spool that big of a charger with the vanes closed down in the turbine???

 

[pwerwagn]

to bad we don't have vacuum (well, not really)

Actually, we have more vaccuum at our disposal than a gasser. Most gassers make 17-19 in/hg (usually what is required to operate a good Blow Off Valve). the vac pump on my 12v makes 21in/hg at idle, and like 24in/hg at 1500rpm.

 

[Philip]

pwerwagn his truck is a 1st gen. It does have a vac pump. But we are lucky if we can get 18in/hg on them. Plus he is in ID which makes him high alitude. He might put out 14 or 15in/hg if he is lucky.



Vacuum might work. Any cylinder that works on air pressure will most of the time work on vacuum. But most vac valves that I have used or seen are the all or nothing type. Once you apply it it goes full bore. Till the cylinder hits it travel limits. You could use restictors to limit the speed. But you want something that would be more controllable. Air pressure has a better selection of control valves.



What did that turbo run come off of that used 32 volts? Thats an odd ball voltage. Sounds like some sort of military equipment. I would love to have it to play with. But I can't afford it most likely.

 

[swankmetal]

phillip, just that controller on ebay is 32v. i think. if you scroll down to the second pic or something, you can see "9=32v". 9 is one of the 6 terminals on the end of it. i got the turbo on ebay as well. the seller didn't really know what he was selling. he said it was off an nt-14 or something. maybe he's right, i don't know.





ok. so. we're back on air. what do i need to set up a variable air valve that runs off engine rpm?

 

[Philip]

Ok back to my mumbling agin. :-laf



The reason I said to spring the cylinder one way is so you only need to apply air one direction. This makes it easyer to controll that way. The spring will return it to small housing as a fail safe. Also you would need a spring with a controlled collapse pressure. That means it stays the same pressure from free state to coil bind.



An air ride controll valve has vent one direction on the valve and controlled pressure the other way. So if you rigged it to vent at less than half throttle it would allow the turbo to go back to its small housing config by spring pressure. Above half throttle would let air threw it to start apply air to make the housing larger.



Right off the top of my head this would be the easyest valve to configure for you. It is small. It is lever operated. It could be hooked up with little hassle. It can be had at any semi repair shop or semi junkyard. I have never seen one lock up which could cause a stuck throttle.



You might get lucky and one of our members might have one laying around to donate for the experiment. If I had one I would send it to you to play with.



Anyone have anymore idea's?

 

[swankmetal]

ok phillip. i'm following what you're saying. i'm going to do some thinking, then i'll have a couple more ?'s for ya.

 

[TractorNut]

dave, see if you can drop Dean (WeirCummin) a line. . he set up his on his 2gen. . He was adding on board air to controll his... He might have some ideas for you...

Bryan

 

[swankmetal]

UPDATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!



first off, thanks tractornut for the tip. didn't pan out though (got no response).



but anyway, things are starting to come together. been talking to my electrical engineer buddy about building a controller. he's got the drawings done in his head. now for the big news, TWINS!!!!!VGT!!!!!!!!



it's a variable hy35. Oo. Oo. Oo. Oo. Oo. Oo.

 

[nickleinonen]

i like vgt idea...



i really wish i had snagged that garrett vnt off ebay a while back... it was a new one off a Series60 DDC... big charger it was... titanium compressor wheel... would bolt to that large version of the ats 2nd gen manifold [at least i think it would] and i think it could spool ok on the b series engine as it can clamp those vains down pretty tight as it needs to to make the egr system work properly on that series 60... i remember reading that charger on the series 60 can make 40lbs boost at idle [600rpm] in test mode, and like 20 in egr mode... so our b series turning ±1500 is pumping out about the same volume as the detroit is at idle... ... hmm

 

[Scrappy]

Ok back to my mumbling agin. :-laf



The reason I said to spring the cylinder one way is so you only need to apply air one direction. This makes it easyer to controll that way. The spring will return it to small housing as a fail safe. Also you would need a spring with a controlled collapse pressure. That means it stays the same pressure from free state to coil bind.



An air ride controll valve has vent one direction on the valve and controlled pressure the other way. So if you rigged it to vent at less than half throttle it would allow the turbo to go back to its small housing config by spring pressure. Above half throttle would let air threw it to start apply air to make the housing larger.



Right off the top of my head this would be the easyest valve to configure for you. It is small. It is lever operated. It could be hooked up with little hassle. It can be had at any semi repair shop or semi junkyard. I have never seen one lock up which could cause a stuck throttle.



You might get lucky and one of our members might have one laying around to donate for the experiment. If I had one I would send it to you to play with.



Anyone have anymore idea's?

I see one flaw with this valve by itself, you don't want the turbo to open all the way up based on throttle position. If you do set it up this way, at low boost/rpms as soon as you go WOT the turbo will open up and LAG city. it needs to be based on boost levels also so at low boost it is closed and as boost comes up it opens up. also might be a good idea to restrict opening speed to keep turbine speed up.

 

[CRobbins]

I've got an idea.....

Ok, You have a speed sensor on the turbo, right? Hook the speed sensor to a air valve/regulator and find/build a controller that keeps the turbo spooled at the highest that it can given the drive pressure, then limit the max turbo rpm/boost psi. I have a good idea on how to do it, just not all the components that will make up the complete works. Electronic pressure sensors are common as well as electric air regulators. Tapping the rpm signal from the turbo sender and using that to control the air reg. is the key to the puzzle. Adding inputs to the controller is easy, ie max boost sense and control. I would think that the main objective here would be to keep that turbo spooled and making boost, just not too much and to open the drive side up to maintain that set boost. OR..... You could operate the vgt by using drive pressure to open it as the pressure went up. That would require changing the accuator to stay small and get bigger with the increase in exh manifold pressure. That would keep the drive pressure from becoming a restriction and take the boost side out of the picture (more boost is better, right?) And make the whole thing simple. I've been thinking about this for awhile ever since I drove that ISX with the egr on it.



CR

 

[Mhannink]

i like what crobbins said about this you could also hook a boost elbow that would drive the vanes when you step on it exh would flow into the small nozzel and as the turbo spooled it would take some of that boost and use it to push the vanes and open the nozzel to allow more air at the higher rpm while still keeping it spining pretty fast slowly allowing more air in to spool and more boost pushing it farther open also when u let off the fall off of boost would allow the srping to slowly push it back always keeping it in the right spot on some of the other ideas it seems like when you let off its gonna let it spring right back to idle postion creating a lot of backpressure it would be simalar to an exh brake backing it into the engine and if it happens quick enough i could see possible damage from the sudden increased back pressure and nowhere for it to go except back into the engine

 

[swankmetal]

that would work if the actuator worked in the opposite direction. what cr said is what i came up with as well. would be the most accurate and (more importantly) easily adjustable. now i just need to start sourcing parts. any ideas where i could find variable electronic air regulators? and the brain box to run them? also need to figger out a box to run the small one. it's got a linear actuator type deal that i need to make a controller for. don't know a whole lot about this stuff, but maybe the same brain could think for both? i doubt it. anyway, thanks for the thoughts guys.



dave

 

[nickleinonen]

every so often, you can find on ebay digital air pressure regulators made for/by holset for controlling their VGT chargers [at least that is what i believe they are for by the discription]. they go for like $20 used [some surplus seller]... i see them every few months when i search ebay for "holset"



http://www.controlair.com/transducers/5500device.html



http://www.regulatorstore.com/diseprre.html



maybe the "commandgate" solenoid off the 04. 5 or 05 or 06 ram's wastegate controller could be made to work too [works like a fancy boost elbow] feed set max pressure to the actuator through an orifi and use the command gate thingie to bleed off the air once the boost [or shaft speed] gets to where you want it. .



i think though, you would also need a signal from the ecm[or stand alone tps] as to what the throttle position/% is to control the charger too, without it, crusing down the hwy, you might end up with the charger making 25psi boost when only 4-5 would be needed...

 

[KDillard]

what about a electric servo motor? could use like a gear reduction servo or a small 12v linear actuator. Maybe a good electrical engineer would be of some help.

 

[swankmetal]

nice. those control air ones look good. wonder if they have 12v models. $400+ for the other ones though? that's a lot of dough. i'll have to call control air and see what they have to say. i've got one of those hoslet regulators. it's 32v though. and i can't get any info on what inputs it needs.



i thought about switching it over to a linear actuator type thing. especially after getting the little turbo that runs off one. i think it would be pretty cool to "crack the code" for each one though. anyway, we'll see.

 

[swankmetal]

WOW!!!!!!!!!! just talked to control air. minimum of $3500!!!!!!!! for a block of 4(which is the smallest you can buy) of those things. i guess those are out. any other thoughts?

 

[Mhannink]

does the little acuator work like this http://www.holset.co.uk/files/2_5_1_5-variable geometry.php if it does maybe you could reverse it somehow tho i cant think how

 

[swankmetal]

yes that is the actuator. no it can't be internally reversed. yes it could be mounted on the other side. neither of these are options in my mind though. not enough control. i need electronic regulators. for much cheaper than retail.