Looking at a used 2003 4x4, Auto, 73K on the clock....

[CCiatteo]

I am looking to replace my 97 12v 4x4 because the cab is rotting completely away. So its time to either replace the cab or replace the truck. I stumbled upon a 2003 on a Dodge/Ram Dealer lot today on the way home from work. I have concerns about leaving the 12V/5spd world because of the simplicity that is inherent to the platform. Mine still rolls down the road just fine with 280,000, so if I am making the jump to a 2003/Auto truck what are the potential pitfalls? I did some searching found injector issues and transmission issues as the big two, but not sure if these are self inflicted by the owners and programmers or if they are factory weak points. I have not stopped to see the truck in person yet so I don't know if its an HO truck, gear ratio etc.....



here's the link



http://www.lucaschryslerjeepdodge.c...am+2500-d5e7209e0a0a000200843e34710fecd1.htm#



Any advice or links to info is appreciated.



Chris

 

[JJPage]

IIRC, the seventh digit in the VIN is an 8, designating a 48RE auto trans, which also should mean it's a 305/555 motor. As long as no power adders have been used, the auto trans is not a weak link. I do not believe injectors are either, but you may get other opinions on that. Clean fuel is a must on CR's, so you never know on a used vehicle.



The fuel canister mounted fuel lift pump is suspect, and tend to fail at or around the mileage of the vehicle you are looking at. No big deal, just be aware, may have already been replaced.



Looks like a gorgeous truck, and low mileage for the year. 2003/2004 with the 305/555 motors are my favorite CR's.



Heater control doors are also suspect, you may want to check all heater/defrost controls to make sure they all work/blow as designed.

 

[Bob4x4]

http://www.carfax.com/VehicleHistory/Report.cfx?inventoryId=254502585&consumerZip=08048&source=CFX

 

[Bob4x4]

It has a 10. 5 diff with 4. 10s 48retrans and has the back up alarm recall

 

[JR]

Didn't someone recently tell me those carfax's are not to be trusted.....

 

[Bob4x4]

Didn't someone recently tell me those carfax's are not to be trusted.....

Yes they are not 100% just another tool

 

[CCiatteo]

Went to check out the truck tonight and it was gone after only 2 days. Thanks for the quick replies. I think I need to start checking in on this side of the "wall" so I know what to look for.

 

[HHhuntitall]

IIRC, the seventh digit in the VIN is an 8, designating a 48RE auto trans, which also should mean it's a 305/555 motor. As long as no power adders have been used, the auto trans is not a weak link. I do not believe injectors are either, but you may get other opinions on that. Clean fuel is a must on CR's, so you never know on a used vehicle.



The fuel canister mounted fuel lift pump is suspect, and tend to fail at or around the mileage of the vehicle you are looking at. No big deal, just be aware, may have already been replaced.



Looks like a gorgeous truck, and low mileage for the year. 2003/2004 with the 305/555 motors are my favorite CR's.



Heater control doors are also suspect, you may want to check all heater/defrost controls to make sure they all work/blow as designed.

That's about it. I would disagree on the transmission. I haven't seen many failures of the '03 trucks, but many of the later trucks are prone to break the stators in the convertors, leaving them locked up, regardless of power additions or not. I'm not sure of any transmission differences in the years, but the 305hp engines have a different piston design, which doesn't tend to turn the oil as quickly as the 325hp engines, in my experience. I also don't see the piston failures in the earlier engines that are prolific in the later engines, either. Of course, most of the engine failures are related to a short between the steering wheel and seat..... I see very few failures in either series if no power is added.



OH, and also note there are some early 2003 trucks out there that have the 250ISB engine. I guess it was the intermediate engine. It's still a common rail, but quickly recognized by the data plate on the aluminum housing above the CP3 pump, instead of being on the valve cover cover. I recall seeing 6 of those trucks, three I've worked on, and most have run well over 300k... . and still going.



If it's clean and at a decent price, I don't think you can go wrong... ... .

 

[jgillott]

Went to check out the truck tonight and it was gone after only 2 days. Thanks for the quick replies. I think I need to start checking in on this side of the "wall" so I know what to look for.

Sorry it didn't work out for you. The good ones always go fast.

 

[MFalkinham]

OH, and also note there are some early 2003 trucks out there that have the 250ISB engine. I guess it was the intermediate engine. It's still a common rail, but quickly recognized by the data plate on the aluminum housing above the CP3 pump, instead of being on the valve cover cover. I recall seeing 6 of those trucks, three I've worked on, and most have run well over 300k... . and still going.

If it's clean and at a decent price, I don't think you can go wrong... ... .

My '03 has that 250HP standard output engine. I just love it as it provides phenomenal fuel economy and very acceptable power. In fact, I just got back from an 8-hour trip to Kansas City and averaged 22mpg going 75mph. Granted, that was running without a trailer, but even when I tow 10k pounds I still get 17-18mpg.

I am shocked at how used truck prices have gone up. The price shown for the truck in the original post is about what I paid for my '03 back in 2005 with only 14k miles on it.

 

[HHhuntitall]

My '03 has that 250HP standard output engine. I just love it as it provides phenomenal fuel economy and very acceptable power. In fact, I just got back from an 8-hour trip to Kansas City and averaged 22mpg going 75mph. Granted, that was running without a trailer, but even when I tow 10k pounds I still get 17-18mpg.

I've noticed that, too. A good friend has a 3/4ton auto, and it gets great fuel mileage. The transmission feels really strong for some reason, too, compared to later model trucks I've driven. It feels like you added a lower stall convertor to an older truck with a shift kit. It's always driven like that, and now that it's pushing 300k, it's still going strong, pulling all kinds of trailers, from cattle to fuel to combine headers... . It's beat to snot, but runs good!!

I am shocked at how used truck prices have gone up. The price shown for the truck in the original post is about what I paid for my '03 back in 2005 with only 14k miles on it.

Well, you got a good deal on your truck. I can relate, though. My '03 will bring more now than I gave for it in '05, while I've added 75k miles..... not that I'd sell it for that... I've got a yard full of 'em, and I just keep fixing and trading them off. My wife gets pretty aggravated, but hey, at least I'm not at the bar drinking, getting in fights. I'm in my shop throwing wrenches and sniffing carbon!! :-laf And technically, it's attached to the house, so I'm home!!

 

[Boaring1961]

Last October I bought a 2005 Quad Cab with 65k miles. They were asking $30,500 and I was able to talk them down to $27,500. Still seemed like too much money, but the truck was fairly clean and had lower mileage. Much to my annoyance I then had to replace all the brakes and have the A/C fixed a few months later. I contemplated buying a new one and routing it through my business, but the sticker of $48k for the truck I wanted was a joke. Not sure who buys a $50k truck, but that's a down payment for a house, even in CA where I live!!

 

[DZink24]

don't look at anything other than an '03-04 truck* (so long as the motor/injectors/transmission hasn't been modded) i may be bias, but the 305 HP motor may be the best of the bunch. i bought mine (a 2004) in nov. '05, drove it off the lot with exactly 6k on the clock. 76K now, and aside from the typical dodge issues, the Cummins itself has been bulletproof. this will be my last diesel, the government has made it un-fun to own/drive. .

 

[rscurtis]

I have to agree, especially when my highway DTE miles routinely exceed 800. Last trip to LI was 22. 5 MPG hand calculated, with the tank filled to the brim on the return fill-up - it wouldn't have held another 6 oz. of fuel. This also included about 100 miles of Long Island traffic in the land of taxes, traffic, and red-light cameras. I was also carrying about 500# of used OPE to be "repurposed".

 

[CCiatteo]

Brought home my new (to me) truck yesterday.

So after taking everyone's advice and doing my best stay within budget and get the features most important to me I found this and brought it home yesterday.



2004 4x4 Auto, Quad Cab, long bed, 89K. It's got the 325 HO engine according to the engine tag on the side of the valve cover. It was a 1-owner truck originally sold through the same dealership I bought it at. I thought that was a good sign, if it had been a problem truck I'm pretty sure they would have sent it to auction rather than put it own their own lot, but who knows? No programmer or boxes installed and the only aftermarket gauge is a transmission temp gauge. Truck looks very good, inside and out, a few paint blemishes on the tailgate, interior very clean. Looks to be stuck under the hood as well (factory airbox and filter). Shocks are the silver/blue Bilsteins, tires (Pirelli Scorpions) are in decent shape and are wearing well. Truck is dry underneath, front end is tight and it goes down the road straight, stops straight.



I'm not sure of the trim level, I don't see any SLT badging? It was ordered as a Quick Ship and the dealer gave me a copy of original order sheet. It looks like SLT trim level (I think), power locks, windows, mirroros (with heat), cruise, tilt, chrome bumpers, grille, cloth interior, dealer installed running board (in body color), mud flaps all the way around. Its got 3. 73's and limited slip. Transfer case is manual shift, on the floor.



So now I have a few questions:

What weight oil do these engines take? 15w/40 or 5w/40



What upgrades should I be looking at for durability and longevity?



If this truck performs like my 12v did, I should have many good miles ahead.



Again thanks for the info in the previous posts, it was very helpful in narrowing my search.

 

[mwilson]

So after taking everyone's advice and doing my best stay within budget and get the features most important to me I found this and brought it home yesterday.



2004 4x4 Auto, Quad Cab, long bed, 89K. It's got the 325 HO engine according to the engine tag on the side of the valve cover. It was a 1-owner truck originally sold through the same dealership I bought it at. I thought that was a good sign, if it had been a problem truck I'm pretty sure they would have sent it to auction rather than put it own their own lot, but who knows? No programmer or boxes installed and the only aftermarket gauge is a transmission temp gauge. Truck looks very good, inside and out, a few paint blemishes on the tailgate, interior very clean. Looks to be stuck under the hood as well (factory airbox and filter). Shocks are the silver/blue Bilsteins, tires (Pirelli Scorpions) are in decent shape and are wearing well. Truck is dry underneath, front end is tight and it goes down the road straight, stops straight.



I'm not sure of the trim level, I don't see any SLT badging? It was ordered as a Quick Ship and the dealer gave me a copy of original order sheet. It looks like SLT trim level (I think), power locks, windows, mirroros (with heat), cruise, tilt, chrome bumpers, grille, cloth interior, dealer installed running board (in body color), mud flaps all the way around. Its got 3. 73's and limited slip. Transfer case is manual shift, on the floor.



So now I have a few questions:

What weight oil do these engines take? 15w/40 or 5w/40



What upgrades should I be looking at for durability and longevity?



If this truck performs like my 12v did, I should have many good miles ahead.



Again thanks for the info in the previous posts, it was very helpful in narrowing my search.



View attachment 85756

Nice looking unit, Congratulations!!!



As far as the oil, 15W-40. All of my trucks, past and present live happily on a diet of Rotella T 15W-40 and Fleetguard LF16035 Oil Filters. Gizmo the TDI is quite fond of the Rotella as well.



The '06 has had it since new. When I am really slapping the miles on I will go with a 10,000 mile change. It will be down just a quart at that point.

Gizmo runs a 5,000 mile change interval. At change time the oil is still on the full mark.



Please don't flame me, it is not worth it to me to run some super expensive oil or filtration system. Plus I want an oil that I can buy anywhere in the event one is far away from home and needs oil for whatever reason. I give the dipstick a sniff whenever I check the oil and keep on truckin'.....





The dooryard at work is full of Freightliner M2 trucks with Cummins "B" power that work hard all day long and live a long life with Rotella Oil and Fleetguard Oil Filters.



Enjoy the new truck!!!



Mike.

 

[HHhuntitall]

Oil quality is very important. Basically, any good diesel oil will make it last a long time with regular maintainance. If you look back through TDR mags, you'll find a great article on oil... . High Price is not a good factor when determining what oil to buy for your truck. It's hard to go wrong with Delo, Rotella, or Penzoil, but I've used quite a few others, and had good luck with most.

Filtration is the next biggest thing to oil. I may start WWIII saying this, but don't run a Fram or Baldwin filter on your Dodge. Go with Fleetguard, Mopar, or Wix (if you have not other choice). I've seen a LOT of engine problems that come from poor filtration of oil.

Next is the filtration of fuel. Again, use the best filter you can get. I use Fleetguard when I can. The HPCR fuel system is not tolerant of ANY foreign material or water!!! If in doubt, change it!!

Next thing is look for your fuel pump. Early '04s had them on the back of the fuel filter canister, and are prone to failure. If it's there, I suggest carrying a replacement with you or upgrading to the later model Dodge or an Airdog type fuel pump. If it's in the tank, then no worries.

Lastly, drive it and love it!! Those are good trucks!! Sounds like your's was taken care of, so it should last a good while. Not many people put Bilstien's on a truck if it's not taken good care of.

 

[cerberusiam]

Stick with the 15-40 weight and a brand you like. Valvoline Premium Blue, Rotella, etc, are easily available and work well.

Upgrades for longevity get a lot more involved. If your engine plate says 325 you have an 04. 5 emisisons engine. Check build date to be sure, should Jan 04 or later.

Biggest mechanical changes between the 305 and 325 is the cam profile and better valves\seats. Electronically, additon of a 3rd event and a remapped timing\fuel map. The combination made it 50 state emissions compliant but cost some mileage. A Smarty will allow adjusting some of that.

Fuel pump is an issue when you add the needed filtration. Best thing you do for the engine is add an addtitional water sperator at the tank and a solids filter in front of the CP-3. Then the pump becomes the problem becuause it will not draw correctly thru another filter. Check to see if they upgraded to the in tank pump, you may have it.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

I agree that the 305 HP 2003-4 was a pinnacle, just as the 215 HP 12 valve was. If you check my classified ad, I am offering mine on the block with or without the roughly $24K in goodies on it, which makes the Ram kind of free, lol I got the "new Ram" disease and the only cure will cost about $55K.

 

[CCiatteo]

... ... ... ... Next is the filtration of fuel. Again, use the best filter you can get. I use Fleetguard when I can. The HPCR fuel system is not tolerant of ANY foreign material or water!!! If in doubt, change it!!

Next thing is look for your fuel pump. Early '04s had them on the back of the fuel filter canister, and are prone to failure. If it's there, I suggest carrying a replacement with you or upgrading to the later model Dodge or an Airdog type fuel pump. If it's in the tank, then no worries.

Lastly, drive it and love it!! Those are good trucks!! Sounds like your's was taken care of, so it should last a good while. Not many people put Bilstien's on a truck if it's not taken good care of.

Stick with the 15-40 weight and a brand you like. Valvoline Premium Blue, Rotella, etc, are easily available and work well.

Upgrades for longevity get a lot more involved. If your engine plate says 325 you have an 04. 5 emisisons engine. Check build date to be sure, should Jan 04 or later.

Biggest mechanical changes between the 305 and 325 is the cam profile and better valves\seats. Electronically, additon of a 3rd event and a remapped timing\fuel map. The combination made it 50 state emissions compliant but cost some mileage. A Smarty will allow adjusting some of that.

Fuel pump is an issue when you add the needed filtration. Best thing you do for the engine is add an addtitional water sperator at the tank and a solids filter in front of the CP-3. Then the pump becomes the problem becuause it will not draw correctly thru another filter. Check to see if they upgraded to the in tank pump, you may have it.

I did some more digging and found out some more info. Build date on the truck door sticker was February 2004, build date on the engine tag was 02-02-04 and definitely says 325 (I kinda was hoping I read it wrong), but not a big deal. I believe the fuel pump has already been replaced (and possibly recently) because the pump itself looks "newer" than the surrounding components and it looks like the metal pre-filter/strainer (shown in the pics on Geno's website) was spliced into the line from the tank to the lift pump. Would the addition of a the 2 micron kit filter kit from GDP, between the factory filter and the injection pump cause a strain on the factory lift pump, or should I just apply that money towards a complete aftermarket system?

Additionally there is a sticker on the air intake horn, from the dealer (it appears) stating the ECM was reprogrammed or had an update applied, its kind of faded and tough to read. I'll have to search for more info on that.

Edit... I think the reflash may have been for poor cold weather performance like mentioned here:
https://www.turbodieselregister.com...le-at-Start-up&highlight=ECM+reprogram+update

I also noticed that the previous owner dabbed antisieze on lots of the suspension bolts, brake line joints etc. , I guess to help when future maintenance became necessary?

So overall I'm reasonably confident I have well cared for unit and hopefully going forward will continue to be a solid performer.