Looking at adding fuel filter...

[Jim W]

With modern emissions tuning it's really not possible to get a "baseline" as so much changes if you get a good tune.

Even on my 05 I have to run cooler than stock to keep things alive so a baseline wouldn't have helped me. The 6.7's are even worse.

It would be nice to see regen thou.


You should see if you can find a FF5814, it's the high effeciency version of the FF5320. 3um vs 5um.

Are these ABSOULT numbers?

My baseline numbers were when non pulling 800 to 900F EGT's. Pulling my trailer they were between 950F and 1100F EGT's. When I was in regen the temps would fluctuate between 1100F and 1450F EGT's. At idle the temps would never go below 750F for the EGT's. This was a year worth of data.

Now when I am driving the truck the EGT's are around 450F to 500F non towing never above 800F at 65 MPH. When I am towing I can see as high as 1200F in 6th gear pulling a long slow grade and Boost pressure is around 10PSI, transmission temps are under 180F in the sump, engine RPM's are around 1650 at 65MPH. I will down shift to 5th gear and the RPM's will climb above 2100, the EGT's will drop under 1000F and the Boost will be around 25 to 30PSI. The transmission temps to do not change. I try to drive by my gauges when I am pulling in the mountains and try not to slow down below 55MPH.

So my baseline was there and I was able to observe both before and after my changes.

 

[AH64ID]

Are these ABSOULT numbers?

Yes

So my baseline was there and I was able to observe both before and after my changes.

Yes you can certainly see the changes from the tuning. There is so much going on with the stock motors tuning that its hard to use the OEM numbers as a baseline for tuned numbers, as you can see from your changes.

 

[guyhaz]

Thanks for all the replies regarding the glacier setup. How do I flush the new lines prior to hooking up. Would I just NOT connect the line to the injector pump and bump the ignition switch to activate the fuel pump to push fuel through the line prior to hooking up?

 

[Killgore]

Well, I hooked the new line to the filter base plate and bumped the ignition to squirt fuel through the line to flush it out (I suspect that's what you meant), before hooking it to the injector pump.

- Ed

 

[Freebore]

I just got a new to me 2007 CTD and wanted to add a fuel filter between the OEM filter and the CP3. Here is what I am looking at:

http://www.glacierdieselpower.com/product.aspx?pf_id=MK20307-CHMB

http://www.vulcanperformance.com/VP-MAX-Under-Intake-Filter-System-CR-p/uifk375.htm

i have read lots of articles and feel that either one of these setups would work for me. Any thoughts? Gotchas with the installs?

I would also like to add a gauge to monitor fuel pressure...is this possible with either one of these setups and where would it be installed? I guess each vendor has an option I can buy.

The only mod I have now is an S&B air intake. I am going to keep this rig mostly stock. Not looking for HP, just reliability and longevity. I will also be installing a set of gauges to monitor boost, transmission temp, EGT's and fuel pressure. That is about all I will do to this truck.

I made a homemade system and made sure it was completely biodiesel compatible. I did a writeup a while back. Here is the link:

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/threads/254410-Documented-Triple-Filtration-w-Pics-BOM?p=2463944#post2463944

Since that install I added 4 Isspro gauges including fuel supply pressure at the final filter head. The ports on the filter head made it real simple to add the pressure sensor. The chose the filter head because it had the port options as well as a steel threaded bung which is less prone to thread galling with the filters. I photographed it all so will need to post the gauge install next.

 

[Wayne M.]

Thanks for all the replies regarding the glacier setup. How do I flush the new lines prior to hooking up. Would I just NOT connect the line to the injector pump and bump the ignition switch to activate the fuel pump to push fuel through the line prior to hooking up?

Exactly. I guarantee you'll get junk out of there, and that's exactly what you don't want going in the pump!

 

[Killgore]

You asked about the feasibility of adding a fuel pressure gauge and possible mounting options. Wayne added a gauge at the base plate if I remember correctly. I took a more extravagant approach by adding a dual pressure gauge in the cab where I can monitor pressures before the primary filter and again just before the CP-3. The write-up is here under "Hewitt Dual Pressure Gauge" if you do a search.

- Ed

 

[Wayne M.]

Ed, you remember correctly, and that gauge has outlasted my expectations. I remember your write up on the Hewitt gauge as well.
What I did not know about was the reaction between brass and Bio fuel. Looks like I will have to take that tee that holds the gauge and inspect and /or plan a revision.

 

[Wayne M.]

It appears that Glacier mount uses the three threaded holes on the front left side of the block.. I'm using those for the Dual Alternator install.. these kits are basically a $25 filter base 1"-14 thread.. with an adapter mount.. if one has some metal working skills you could make that mount pretty easy. The rest is hardware and standard fittings.. do NOT use galvanized fittings with Diesel.. brass or stainless would work fine.

I've decided to dredge up my home brew kit to better blend in here. I explain why I made my own instead of buying, and I stick by the words.
https://www.turbodieselregister.com/threads/247515-Final-fuel-filtration/page2
For the record, and part of the duscussion, my truck has never been tuned or modified other than this filter, and a near stock exhaust kit. I have no gauges, but on my wish list is a westach boost/pyro combo. This engine has never ever even had one incident aside from the fan clutch and rotted oil pan and a leaking CP3 when new.
Going on 4700 hours. I haven't even run the valves yet, which I know I need to do.
Owning this truck has been an incredible trouble free experience. It's beyond anything even in a Toyota's wildest dreams. If only it wouldn't start rotting away, I could see having this truck on the road indefinitely.

 

[Killgore]

That's quite a testimonial! And, I would hasten to add, the addition of the filter kit can be directly attributable to many miles of trouble-free driving. After I replaced my first set of injectors at 219k miles, I came to two conclusions; (1) I didn't want to do that again (approximately $2,962 out of pocket); and (2) there has to be a better way to polish the fuel and protect the injectors from unnecessary wear and tear (exactly $241.91). Of course I did retain the OEM primary filter, but I started using a Baldwin PF7977 which is rated at 5 microns.

I will go out on a limb and state that if you don't improve the filtration, you are driving a ticking time-bomb that Chrysler was well aware of, having been warned by both Cummins and Bosch. It's not a question of pay me now or pay me later. It's a question of whether or not you want to be raped at the most inopportune time.

- Ed

 

[Wayne M.]

I will go out on a limb and state that if you don't improve the filtration, you are driving a ticking time-bomb that Chrysler was well aware of, having been warned by both Cummins and Bosch. It's not a question of pay me now or pay me later. It's a question of whether or not you want to be raped at the most inopportune time.

- Ed

Truest words on this whole forum in a long long time. The 3G 5.9's were built for a price, and no doubt fuel filtration was a dice roll. In fact I'll spin it by saying that at the time Daimler was so reckless, and wanted their junk engine in there so bad, that this was a motive to set up Cummins. Thank God it didn't work out too well.
Tomorrow I will head out and around my shop yard and I can probably find all 3-4 examples of 5.9 and 6.7 engines we use commercially and I will snap some shots of the filtration arrangements. It would be totally appropriate for this thread.

 

[MichaelOverfield]

This has been a very informative thread. From it I'm adding a another filter, and changing out the last OEM style filter I put in, it was a WIX, I bought the Donaldson to replace it, as well as a secondary Donaldson with a filter base to add. It might go after the original if I can make a suitable mount, or after the add on OEM filter on the frame rail under the truck. I'll add pictures and part numbers when I figure it out and install.. somewhere in the mix of wiring up that dual alternator setup.. on brass fittings, that Mopar kit, supposedly to help with Bio fuel, it uses brass compression fittings to adapt to the stainless steel fuel lines. I think the brass issues with Bio are more biological and water contaminated fuel vs. brass. I have seen such contaminated issues in several systems. I think stainless would be better, but even stainless can have issues with that kind of contaminated fuel, not to mention filters will plug.. otherwise I think small brass fittings are not likely to be an issue running normal B20 and below fuels. The 3 gen is really only rated to B5 anyway.

 

[MichaelOverfield]

One other note in support of the OEM not going for adequate fuel filtration.. from my VW TDI research, that debacle was to save $300 per car on emmisions. They put in a prone to failure HPFP over a more proven reliable CP3 pump to save $600 per car. That filtration system makes the Dodge OEM system look not so bad.. when that pump would eventually fail, metallic particles had unfiltered flow to the entire fuel system, a simple reroute of the flow path could at least contain the damage, a guy up in Canada was making kits for that, and to modify to the CP3 pump, pretty sad when it takes the home innovator to fix design issues from the OEM. We owners have different cost considerations than the OEM.. it comes down to that. VWs "fix" to the HPFP was to extend the warranty.. to a time and mileage that the KNEW was inside when most would fail, 100k miles is not the high mileage it once was, especially for a Diesel. I think the stock filtration for our trucks is a similar, yet not as severe a shortcoming from the OEM. The fact all new models have 2 filters is telling, the fuel system is practically the same. I think it's safe to say additional filtration is a wise investment on these trucks.

 

[Killgore]

I suppose I'm a little perverse at times, but looking back over the years I would have to say that when Chrysler decided to make the Cummins available in their pickups they weren't fully aware of what they had and wrapped a 100k mile truck around a 500k mile engine. Time would prove this concept invalid and through the years they eventually evolved and changed thanks to customer loyalty, competition, etc. and today we have a fourth-generation truck that is built to match the longevity of the Cummins. The second and third-generation trucks were a step in the right direction but still not up to matching truck to engine. And like Wayne stated, there were probably some backroom shenanigans that confused the issues. I am certainly not on the inside track but I recognize that anybody buying a new Ram today is purchasing a long-term investment that should have many, many years of serviceable life. Granted the competition is still out there but their marketing groups tend to promote creature comforts, acceleration, or other dubious qualities without touching on longevity and maintenance. I drive the truck in my signature which is a very reliable tow vehicle, and its' conception was driven by Cummins, not by the packaging.

Pardon an old man's rant. Now if I can just finish converting this rig into a 4th generation...

- Ed

 

[Wayne M.]

As I said I would, I was able to find 2 applications where our engine is used, and has real fuel filtration.

This is a Kenworth T370 that has a PX6, aka a 6.7 Cummins. It has a spin on water separator down below the drivers step, and a final spin on mounted on the engine mid way.

This is a Komatsu WA380 wheel loader. It has a QSB 5.9 (rear gear drive) and it has a small FG series Racor water seperator, and a similar final spin on. I wrote the Baldwin number down, but I lost it.
The original spec was to have a very tight 2u Racor element and a 10u final, but due to what the other equipment we have uses, they're putting a 30u Racor and a 2u spin on.

The other machine I can't get near is a Johnston sweeper. It uses a QSB 6.7, and has a R30 series Racor and the same spin on final.
The point of this post is to explain that this equipment encounters bad fuel, but has the protection they need. We don't go though any engine fuel components at all. I've never seen an injector go bad here, and the sweepers are flogged heavily with a marine type duty cycle.

I feel that if the OEM filter in our Rams is treated as a primary/ water separator, and a kit like we are discussing is installed as a final, you are approaching the filtration requirements these full commercial applications have.

 

[guyhaz]

I also found this one. Has anyone installed it by chance?

http://dieselfuelfilterkits.com/03_12_cummins_fuel_filter_kit.html

 

[Wayne M.]

I also found this one. Has anyone installed it by chance?

http://dieselfuelfilterkits.com/03_12_cummins_fuel_filter_kit.html

Looks like a well thought out, clean kit. If you're in a year round temperate climate, it should be good. If you're anywhere it gets below 20F, you'll need a heater, and I see waxing happening with this kit.

 

[verk]

Thanks for informative thread. In trying to decide between the two offerings of original post I noticed that GDP also offers a unit that mounts to OE intake manifold like the Vulcan. When mounting on intake manifold ( under horn ) I see little difference between the two offerings other than price. Also found photo with nice fitted fuel line that doesn't have the excess for loop of either of these offerings.

 

[GrantP]

Thanks for informative thread. In trying to decide between the two offerings of original post I noticed that GDP also offers a unit that mounts to OE intake manifold like the Vulcan. When mounting on intake manifold ( under horn ) I see little difference between the two offerings other than price. Also found photo with nice fitted fuel line that doesn't have the excess for loop of either of these offerings.View attachment 99577

I just flipped the GDP kit around to run the hoses the way I wanted (as routed in your picture). Had to buy a new straight JIC fitting for the CP3 for a couple bucks but easy enough.

 

[verk]

Since purchasing the Vulcan product, I've had two persons ( one owns a repair & tune shop that works on trucks particularly Cummins, the other an enthusiast whose done lots of work on his truck ) tell me they think the stock lift-pump, whether in tank or next to filter housing at engine ( i.e. Carter P76110 ) isn't adequate for the injection pump. The shop owner said FASS only and the enthusiast said stock pumps don't support the needed flow rates. Looking up the specifications of Carter pump is see 5psi max pressure, 56.0 gph max flow rate. Can anybody confirm these pumps as adequate ? Given the optional fitting for pressure transducer on these aftermarket filters, it would be easy enough to confirm a certain lift pump pressure, anybody know what figures to look for to confirm adequate pressure ?