Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Looking at getting 4x4 Auto...Question on Auto

[Ncostello]

I wasn't really looking but ran across a 2001 2500 SLT 4x4 QC Short Bed with 63,000 miles and not a mark anywhere on the body. It ran nice... and the owner said it just had a new lift pump and VP44 installed by the local Cummins shop. Apparently he had one bite the dust.



I checked it over real good... using all the things I've learned here and from the TDR magazine. He commented that I must know what I'm looking at since I was specifically going from place to place looking at details most folks wouldn't begin to think of. Except for the tires it passed my test.



Anyway... the automatic is where it gets all dark and cloudy for me. I'm know enough about my NV4500 to be dangerous... all the good and bad. And its a good one. But I will admit I often find myself in the city more than on the highway and an automatic has been on my mind for a little while.



I drove it and it went through its paces OK. But I will admit I've never driven an automatic Dodge Diesel and was wondering if the shifts of an 01 are supposed to be firm. It wasn't rough but there was no doubt when it shifted. I figured a stock auto would be the dreamy smooth type shift where you almost cant tell... you just notice rpms change. But I could tell when this shifted.



Its that the torque converter locking up in various gears... or is that only in OD? See... I'm clueless on these autos. The price is great as he is selling cause he bought a new 04. He didn't trade it in and wanted to sell it outright.



Last summer he pulled an enclosed race car trailer after he started running an outlaw type dirt car. The car and trailer probably doesen't weigh too much so I'm not worried about that. And he only made it to a few races as he couldn't make them all. Surely that kind of towing couldn't hurt a stock auto. Also the transmission and engine is stock. No mods for performance.

 

[Ncostello]

Almost forgot... I would also plan on swapping my RV275's into this rig. Hopefully that won't be too much for the auto if I don't flog it to death. I don't plan on any boxes unless they become free.



And finally... what happens if I install my current HX35 onto this truck equipped with a HY35? According to Fritz's page... I'll be a little slower building boost but will benefit at higher RPM ranges. Is the HY designed to prevent soot on autos?



Man... I just about got the truck mechanically where I wanted it. Now I gotta do the whole lift pump move again and all the other little things if I get it.

 

[cArNiVaLwOrKeR]

dont do it!!!

 

[csutton7]

you can always upgrade the auto--I love mine and wouldn't own a stick as I do a lot of city driving and pushing a clutch in and out 5 zillion times within a 1/4 of a mile gets old fast---you will learn to drive around any probs, if you have any, upon the 275 install--chris

 

[BarryG]

Neil:

I have an 01 auto and so far it has been great. I have had an ez on it since 15k and added 275's at about 70k. It now has 110k. People have said that the transmission wont hold that much but "mine" is still working great no slipping. I don't race around or do wot takeoffs though and admittedly haven't done any heavy towing. My trailer is only about 4k but it does fine going through the mountains here. I guess you could say I drive with the trans in mind. As far as shifting yes you can feel it shift for sure but it is smooth. I bought an auto because when we bought it we lived in downtown denver and with the traffic I just didn't feel like shifting all the time. I am happy with my choice and as soon as it starts to show signs of going south I will be contacting the various aftermarket trans companies, making my choice and fixing it up right.

 

[Lsfarm]

Stock Auto trans

Niel, give me a call, check your PMs I sent you my phone #. I will try to fill you in on a stock trans.



From your description it sounds like a good truck, if the price is right, go for it!!



Give me a call if you want some transmission training.



Hope I can help. Greg L

 

[JohnMcIntyre]

BTDT.....

Aside from what others have already said in this thread..... the stock auto configuration is just "okay" and if you're even only part serious about some after market performance mods to the engine and drive train at some time in the future, then the bomb bug can be quite infectious



Most of the stuff you've alluded to is already on my 1-ton and you might want to ask the guy if he's ever had to change the oil pressure sender or the APPS sensor, which usually fall due for some attention around the mileage you're quoting.



Hope this helps - you can see details relating to various aftermarket goodies in my sig-file below. Gotta run now, getting ready for my next pan-European trip with my son down to Portugal via Spain and France from England a 3,000+ mile trip. It's the Euro2004 Soccer championships so it should be a real blast. !!

 

[NKing]

I have a stock truck with a stock auto and it works ok, thats about the best I can say about it. The shifts are abrubt like you described, and also coming in and out of lockup feels like a shift. I guess thats just how they are. The torque converter also has too much slip for the Diesel, so you have too get the rpm's higher than would otherwise be necessary to get the truck moving. On the good side, I have 82000 miles of trouble free service from the transmission. I don't tow much, but I have occasionally towed a 4000lb boat through the desert at high speeds and up long, hot grades without difficulty. Going up steep grades is typically done in third gear with the tc locked up, and about 2600 rpm -2800 rpm (good for 60-65mph). If I had to do it over, I'd get the 6sp manual.

 

[bmoeller]

If they are treated right, the auto seems to be fine. The stock torque convertors aren't very tight though. Mine is the worst I've driven. Considering it has almost 180k on it, it's probably doing OK for the miles. A good one would nice.

 

[John - K5AWO]

Originally posted by bmoeller

If they are treated right, the auto seems to be fine. The stock torque convertors aren't very tight though. Mine is the worst I've driven. Considering it has almost 180k on it, it's probably doing OK for the miles. A good one would nice.

I will ditto Moeller's remarks. My torque convertor feels like warm butter. If you want to move forward at the speed the cars do, you gotta push it up to 2100 rpm. Anything less than that is blue hair motion. Maybe not even that fast.

 

[Ncostello]

Guy let me drive it home overnight to look it over more. He is in no hurry and real easy going.



Here's the deal. It started out fine. I got used to the way it shifted. Kicked it out of OD on the highway at 55. Went in and out of OD smoothly. Shifted OK too all around.



Then as I roll to the first stop in 20 miles... the light turned green just as I had slowed to about 5mph. Pressed the accellerator down and rpms went up but the truck pulled slow. After talking with Lsfarm... I now understand its doing 3rd gear starts. After this episode... it made all 3rd gear starts from there on out even after stopping and shifting into neutral. Shut it off in neutral... started it back up in neutral and it was fine. Then the next stop it was back to sluggish 3rd gear starts. I could then definately tell when it would make normal starts. I could count shifts.



During all this... I didn't gun it. I was very cautious about taking off. I guess I'll have to ask why he didn't notice this... and who knows how long its been doing this... or how much damage if any its done especially since he towed a race car trailer a couple times.



The torque converter is stock from inspection... and the owner says its never had transmission or engine mods. I sure cant find any evidence of such either.



Guess I don't know enough about autos to understand why it would do this... OR more importantly how much its gonna cost to correct the problem.



Checking codes reveals:



P1693 DTC Detected In ECM Or PCM



P0234 Turbo Boost Limit Exceeded



Would this affect the transmission? I'm curious how a stock truck exceeds turbo boost to set a code? Hmmmm.



Maybe I better keep the ole 2500 5speed HX35 truck. At least I know what I got. I just now got it about like I like it anyway.



But man that dark blue 4x4 with aluminum wheels sure looks nice sitting there. Not a scratch.

 

[rrausch]

My '95 towed a 5th wheel TT quite a bit before I got it. The trans was pretty stock but the engine had a TST #6 plate. I bought the truck at 56,000 miles and put another 50,000 on the stock trans before I got a Performance Trans.



Although my '95 has a 47RH and yours is a 47RE my point is that these transmission's are pretty good with a stock engine or (in my case) a bombed engine, but with good driving habits. They are tougher than you would think, the weak points IMO seem to be the stock Stator and TC Clutch.



I won't go back to a stick. If you are in Central Indiana you should do yourself a favor and check out TST Products in Columbus, Ind. They are one of the premier Diesel Shops in the country and they build a Great Trans, using ATS parts.

 

[Ncostello]

Took the truck back to the owner this morning. I sure like the truck overall and the price is right. But there is always a catch it seems like.



The transmission goes into its 3rd gear start mode (possibly limp mode?) very shortly after it warms up. I again tried to shut down in neutral and restart in neutral. This time it did not start off in first. Rather it started off in third. This surely cannot be good on the transmission. I'm not sure how but the PO didn't notice it. He believed me and I told him I'd have to investigate my options to fix this.



From what I gather it could be many different problems causing 3rd gear starts. I would guess that none are quick and cheap to fix especially when you consider the possibility of damage. I wouldn't mind getting a performance transmission... but I cannot see "having" to do that right off the bat. I would at least like to drive it for a while before making a move on that. But currently as soon as I get it home I'd be looking at a possible major problem that couldn't wait. Without a price break... that would simply add $4000 to the cost of the truck immediately and I will not do that.



I did inform the owner that even if I dont buy it... whoever does WILL have to have this looked at. More than likely somebody will be mad if they do not understand what is going on when they test drive. Just driving around town for 5 minutes will not show the problem. I'm stuck on this now.



Is it possible to increase line pressure on a stock transmission w/o added components such as a valve body? Is there an adjustemnt that could increase line pressure to the point where it won't come down low enough at a stop to allow the truck back into first? Perhaps the line pressure it too high. None the less... the third gear clutches cannot be too healthy from all this. Just my novice opinion.

 

[bmoeller]

3rd gear starts could be limp mode. The line pressure can be turned up.



I wonder, if the over boost code is cleared, will it go out of limp mode?

 

[paulb]

Second or third gear starts can be caused by the line pressure being to high. The line pressure can be adjusted with a 3/16 allen wrench. And you are right, the second or third gear starts can cause problems in a very short period of time. If you really like the truck, you might want to take it to a trans shop, and have them check the line pressure, and check to see how much material is in the pan. Most good trans shops will give you an estimate of what problems exist for a fairly reasonable price.

 

[RobertMiller1]

third gear starts and/or not shifting out of first is common when the govenor on the valve body is not functioning properly. Good time to change out the accumulator too. Change of fluid is also warranted at this time. l



Keep the truck you have.

 

[Ncostello]

Thank you everyone for your input. Thanks Lsfarm for some "auto 101" via phone.



If I buy it... I'll have to ask for a deduct for the cost of at least a quality rebuild by a local reputable transmission shop. Then I can apply that towards a performance transmission. Otherwise... I cant settle for fixing the cause only to have to deal with the effects later on a smoked transmission. Owner may not see it that way... then again my 5speed seemed awful smooth today too! We will see... I'll post again if I buy it.

 

[RobertMiller1]

doubtful

doubtful you will need a complete rebuild. Troqueflites are very tough long lasting in the clutch and band areas.



if you have the money, Get a Transgo shift improver kit or buy a valve body.

You do need a new accumulator and govenor. Dealer cost is about $125. Just did mine.



Change fluid to Valvoline Dexron/Mercon and buy a really good torque converter that has a lower stall speed and has tighter coupling and billet face.



That transmission will hold up nicely then.

 

[Ncostello]

If you could... tell me how repeated or prolonged take-offs in third does not hurt third gear (or any other gears). I'm not familiar enough with them to understand how third gear take offs wont destroy something. All I can think of is how 4th gear take offs in a manual will eventually smoke a clutch.



Or... what would go bad in an automatic if third gear take-offs were allowed to go on for a while? The fluid would degrade faster from heat? The torque converter would overheat?



I'm thinking the band and clutch areas are tough and long lasting when the shifting is normal for its life. But how tough and long lasting are you talking when they are subjected to third gear starts.



I say all this because the PO noticed nothing wrong... and could have driven like this for a while. How? I dont know... but thats what he is saying. I would have noticed the problem in a second. Heck... I never drove an auto before and noticed something wrong withing seconds of it occuring. Guess that comes from 9 years of driving MT643 and MD3060P Allisons. You'd think the owner would have had a sixth sense for what the transmission should be doing during any circumstance. When the rpms go to 2100 and the truck is barely moving... he should have noticed a problem but didn't.

 

[RobertMiller1]

define repeated and prolonged...



I know it happened to me last year. Drove it few weeks till I figured out what it was. When it fails to go into first, gear, you don't just floor it and burn things down . You nurse it until you discover as I did, that you can get rolling 2 feet, and then move the lever into first, and this would force a manual downshift to first gear.



Not to much of a worry to change the parts, filter and fluid first before you overhaul it. if you want to take that approach.



If you have an extra $3500, the tuner transmissions are real sweet.



I then went to a transmission shop who said it needef overhauling as they found a 1/4 teaspoon of metal residue on the magnet. The overhaul was quoted at $2200.



I told them it actually looked great for a torqueflite, and wouldn't they consider just changing fluid, govenor and accumulator. Heck, You can drive an overhauled torqueflite around the block, and produce shavings in the bottom of the oil pan. Anyway they flat refused. They couldn't do that implying it was a shoddy way of working on a transmission... Nope, $2,200 for sure. Never been back.



I then went to Chrysler and bought a govenor and accumulator and changed the fluid, and it has run great since.



A year later, I have since done the valve body work with a transgo kit.



transmission running better than ever.



But please note, My initial recomendation is to keep your truck with the manual transmission.



I truly wish I had a 6 speed in my 2001.