Guns, Bows, Shooting Sports, and Hunting Looking for books, advice on automatic handguns...

[fkovalski]

I am a revolver guy. I like the fail proof simplicity of wheel guns.



But I would like to investigate semi-automatic handguns. Calibers aside, there are so many manufactures of this type of pistol out there. I do not know where/ how to start meaningful research...



My primary goal for a semi-automatic would be for target shooting including failure drills and loading techniques in a timed manner. I am not interested in . 22 or . 380; 9mm would be the smallest of the options with considerations towards . 40 or . 45



It most likely will not replace my revolver as my carry piece.



I think that looking at various models at a gun show would be a good source of information, but I would like to do some due diligence homework first... perhaps there are some good comparison books or other sources out there that folks can recommended with respect to the goals listed that I am trying to achieve.

 

[Hoefler]

Check with your local shooting range, see if they have a rental program. Then go and shoot weapons that you might be interested in or from the same manufacturer.

 

[goodguys75]

I am a revolver guy. I like the fail proof simplicity of wheel guns.

But I would like to investigate semi-automatic handguns. Calibers aside, there are so many manufactures of this type of pistol out there. I do not know where/ how to start meaningful research...

My primary goal for a semi-automatic would be for target shooting including failure drills and loading techniques in a timed manner. I am not interested in . 22 or . 380; 9mm would be the smallest of the options with considerations towards . 40 or . 45

It most likely will not replace my revolver as my carry piece.

I think that looking at various models at a gun show would be a good source of information, but I would like to do some due diligence homework first... perhaps there are some good comparison books or other sources out there that folks can recommended with respect to the goals listed that I am trying to achieve.

from a $ aspect 9mm will probably be the cheapest to shoot, if you want to stay away from those other calibers..... but you cant go wrong with a good old 1911..... sig is a great gun in all sizes... but this is also a very personal preferance issue... . like oil in our trucks..... I also like browning hi powers, going to pick mine up today... . had a few things done to it and should be an awsome gun... . but i like them stock also... . that is one gun I can shoot very well with for some reason

 

[KBurgoyne]

Check with your local shooting range, see if they have a rental program. Then go and shoot weapons that you might be interested in or from the same manufacturer.

this is a great place to start. then once you have an idea of what you like head to a gun store and handle a few. if its not going to be comfotable to shoot its pretty much useless.



try out sig, smith, ruger and kimber. between those even with just the 40 and 45 youll have over 100 options.



im more of a revolver guy too, but ill be in the market for a sig 1911 eventually. ive shot a sig p220 in 45. handles good, but the sights are a little "loose" for my liking and its a little too compact for me.



given your propensity toward revolvers i would say avoid glocks. they call their frame a composite material. i call it plastic.

 

[HHhuntitall]

they call their frame a composite material. i call it plastic.

:-laf



I agree, that a rental situation, while it costs, will give you a great idea of how you would like certain brands of autoloading pistols... . As for a source for finding books, training, and mechanical literature, I'd suggest something like http://www.nrastore.com/nrastore/Products.aspx?c=15, or http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/cid=10009/Products/Books-Videos



There are countless numbers of websites and stores that would have a great many books, magazines, and manuals that would easily overload you with information.



As for my preference, the Browning 1911 patent is one of the most reliable, and oldest, designs proven by over a century of use in combat, competition, and personal defense all over the world. When special military operators request the use of the 1911 for it's reliability and knock down power, that should say a lot as to the duribility and function of the design..... and yes, you will have to clean it on occasion.

 

[fkovalski]

Thanks for the replies and leads. The book stores are what I was looking for to peruse some publications. I agree... a gun range is a next step once I gain more knowledge as it would be a substantial drive to get to one for me.



As alluded to... I believe my first purchase will be a 9mm. By at least committing to a caliber I can focus on the different models.





Let me throw out a question about the 1911 (I could envision one down the road... )



... are all 1911's alike? Is this model assembled exactly the same regardless of manufacturer? ... or are there minor differences that distinguish one brand name from another.

 

[HHhuntitall]

The majority of today's manufactured pistols, in regard to the 1911, are what is considered "mil-spec. " The parts will enterchange with each other. Some brands brag about tighter tolerances, such as Kimber, for example, but really don't give you much more for your money than a good quality Taurus 1911 would. There are some brands that have changed minor parts, such as trigger assemblies or barrel lock-up lugs, but usually that's in the higher end pistols..... Are they exactly the same? Usually. Then there are a number of variants, such as Combat Commanders, compacts, and sub-compacts. Then there are the off the wall differences, such as the Para-ordnance double stacks. Their full size model P-14 holds 14 rounds of . 45acp, and is a handfull. I have large hands, and love their large lower frames. Then there are other variants, such as Colt's Double Eagle, a double action, basically remodeled 1911... . a very nice sidearm, but not as popular as would have thought..... They've been around over 100 years, and there are as many add-ons, aftermarket parts, and accessories that you would expect for something of that age and fame. Current market demand for a good quality, reasonable priced auto-loading pistol has made room for many market ventures, such as Rock Island Armory, Deltas, and several other lower finish quality pistols, now available to the market.

 

[BILLUA]

I really don't want to start a brand war, but if you want a reasonably priced 9mm that will fulfill your requirements and easily double as a ccw, I would highly suggest trying out a Glock 19 or Springfield xdm.



See how each feels in your hand, then try to rent them to see what feels best.



Both of those are extremely reliable, easy to field strip and very cheap to maintain.



I would not suggest starting out with a 1911 due to cost to acquire, more mag reloads during training and, depending on brand, more finicky to maintain... . And, I love my 1911's

 

[HHhuntitall]

I'd wager, (and not to be argumentative, but having seen it before) he won't be satisfied with a Glock, mostly due to trigger release and overall feel, being he is a revolver man... . I suggested the 1911 mainly due to MY preference... . there are many high quality, reasonable priced 9mms out there. In that specific caliber, I prefer the Sig 226, but again, that's my preference. The cost of the Sigs is actually higher than the entry level 1911s. Other considerations may be the Beretta/Taurus, IWI Baby Eagle, or perhaps even the EAA Witness. Those models tend to have a better trigger release... .

 

[jray]

There are some interesting choices being suggested to you for a firearm. Do yourself a favor and spend some time on the internet researching guns that you know about. Going to a shooting range where they rent guns is an excellent idea.

I think the elusive book that you are looking for might not be out there. There is a monthly gunsmith publication that has what you're looking for, but again it's monthly and it usually compares 3-4 handguns at a time for each article.

I taught firearms full time for a large police agency in So Cal a few years ago. There are many good handguns out there. Take your time and you'll find the right one.

 

[AMink]

I think you have to ask, first, "What am I going to do with this gun"? If you are going to use it solely for target shooting, there are a ton of good guns out there. Are you going to "plink" or go for serious accuracy? Will the gun double as a bedside companion? Personally, if defense was in the picture, I'd go with a . 40 or . 45, that's mho.



I have two Springfield XD's, the Tactical 5" and SubCompact 3" in . 40. I have found them to both be very solid, very reliable (I have one funky mag that doesn't always feed the last round, but that's not the gun's fault), accurate enough, and stupid easy to strip and clean.



I have shot some Glocks in 9mm but they don't fit me as well as the XD's.



If you're looking for a gun that can grow with your skills (and wallet:-laf) there are more aftermarket parts and smiths that will work on 1911s than anything else. If you like the 1911 and are looking for cheaper shooting, there are a bunch of 9mm 1911s out there too, like the Springfield EMP.



I did see a good tshirt at the range one day... "Show your Kimber to your friends, show your Glock to your enemies"!

 

[fkovalski]

I am starting to look closer at all the intricacies of an automatic pistol.



I stopped at a friends house today who owns a Glock 30. This particular model has a trigger safety. I am sure there is a logical reason for a "safety" on the trigger but one escapes me right now. Something just does not seem right to have a safety right at the point where one needs to fire the gun! What if this trigger safety fails to disengages when the gun needs to go boom. "Trigger- safety" seems like an oxymoron.



I am leaning towards a . 9mm ... all but writing off a . 40 or . 45 at this time.



I looked at the Springfield XD Tactical Model 5" on the company website. This model pistol has a grip "safety". Now bear with me here... and color me ignorant, but...



... why is there a safety needed on an automatic pistol?



For my revolvers there is no "safety" component required. All my revolvers are double action and it is the only way I shoot. Safety is a factor of the person behind the gun... that is, don't press the trigger unless one absolutely needs to shoot the weapon. It is the simple mechanics of the gun combined with the shooter making a decision.



Are automatic pistols legally required to have "safety" components built into them? Are there models that do not have safety buttons or features?



Apologies for the ignorance (and I am the first one to admit it!)... but I will not buy an automatic until I am knowledgeable, as best as possible... and- fully comfortable with my choice. There is no rush for me to buy one.

 

[AMink]

I am starting to look closer at all the intricacies of an automatic pistol.



I stopped at a friends house today who owns a Glock 30. This particular model has a trigger safety. I am sure there is a logical reason for a "safety" on the trigger but one escapes me right now. Something just does not seem right to have a safety right at the point where one needs to fire the gun! What if this trigger safety fails to disengages when the gun needs to go boom. "Trigger- safety" seems like an oxymoron.



I am leaning towards a . 9mm ... all but writing off a . 40 or . 45 at this time.



I looked at the Springfield XD Tactical Model 5" on the company website. This model pistol has a grip "safety". Now bear with me here... and color me ignorant, but...



... why is there a safety needed on an automatic pistol?



For my revolvers there is no "safety" component required. All my revolvers are double action and it is the only way I shoot. Safety is a factor of the person behind the gun... that is, don't press the trigger unless one absolutely needs to shoot the weapon. It is the simple mechanics of the gun combined with the shooter making a decision.



Are automatic pistols legally required to have "safety" components built into them? Are there models that do not have safety buttons or features?



Apologies for the ignorance (and I am the first one to admit it!)... but I will not buy an automatic until I am knowledgeable, as best as possible... and- fully comfortable with my choice. There is no rush for me to buy one.

Liability. Even a 1911 (or at least most of them) have a portion of the backstrap that must be pushed to fire. I guarantee that after a few rounds through a Glock or XD, you won't even notice the trigger safety or the backstrap safety.



Just as most modern revolvers have a transfer bar of some type as opposed to the firing pin on the hammer (remember carrying 5 and the hammer down on an empty chamber?) most modern semi-autos have a safety too. These guns truly are "point and shoot" as long as you have a good grip on the firearm. If you don't have a good grip, the gun won't go off which can save, at the very least, a bad shot on target. I also think the built in safeties can help when drawing from a holster. Even if you get your finger on the trigger, without a good grip on the backstrap, you might avoid ventilating your leg.



BTW, my carry gun is a S&W . 38 snubby. I wouldn't hesitate to carry one of my Springfields, though. If you're still having trouble choosing, buy two!

 

[KBurgoyne]

if you want something without a bunch of silly safeties youll need to go a bit older. the sig p220 i have has no safeties. you can use the decocking lever to drop the hammer and fire the first shot double action with about 12lbs of pull, so you have to really want to pull the trigger. the gun is 20 years old though.



the point of all the safeties on new guns is moron proofing. the marlin lever gun i have has a safety on it. in the owners manual it says not to fire the gun while the safety is on or it may damage the safety mechanism. so if the safety does what its supposed to it might break.

 

[KBurgoyne]

on second check the new sigs still dont have safeties.



P239



P229



levers back to front are slide release, decocking, takedown. the button is the mag release.

 

[fkovalski]

Thanks for everyone's information! I am enjoying the research on this topic... this "feeds" my personality of wanting to know and understand a product before dropping cash on something...



I was in a sport store yesterday that carries a limited number of handguns. The Smith & Wesson M-P 40 caught my attention; it "felt" good in my hand but it brought up another question that I submit for your opinion: The magazine release button.



The MP frame provides for ambidextrous release of the magazine. This particular one was set up for the right hand being the firing hand with respect to the thumb release as it was located on the left side of the grip. When I tried to do this release I found my hand quivering to apply my thumb force at the button. For grins I tried to do this action from my support hand (using my left hand and using my index finger to release the mag. )



My question is this: does anyone have a reason to NOT set up a frame like this such that I use my normal right firing hand but use my index finger to release the magazine? I almost feel as if I did this that the action for me would be much quicker and smoother while keeping the frame much more steady at a target while replacing the magazine. My index finger applied the required force in the direction in a much more efficient manner.



A possible downside I envision is that the index finger by its movement to come back to the release button is mimicking a "pressing of the trigger" motion. If somehow it were to get into the trigger guard and there is a round chambered then it could result in a negligent discharge. One of my goals is finding a pistol that has a relatively easy method of dropping the magazine.



In PM's with a member here I mentioned that my initial price point is about $400. I am thinking perhaps I may need to up that budget. But I do not mind waiting longer and saving up for the right model... no rush for me to make a decision and buy soon.

 

[CKelley1]

stay with the 1911. i have large hands and must have a bever tail safety i do all my own gunsmithing but you can get ane set up with the flat spring housing and beaver tail/ hammer combo installed for very little more money. you can safely take trigger pull down to 1 1/2 lbs easily, i have carried it cocked and locked this way for over 40 years. out in the gunsite school it was proven the 1911 was more reliable than the wheel gun if you are tought how to properly shoot it.

 

[CKelley1]

one more thing the 1911 is a singel action semi automatic. i had a colt light weight commander break a trigger Y bar by the clip (not it's official name ) and go full auto, the last round was nearly straight up

 

[fkovalski]

I am enjoying visiting some the many stores and looking at different models. This in and of itself is an education. Getting to know how the different ones "feel" is worth the effort.



I have found that the Smith & Wesson MP models are not a right fit. The slide release was not the most accommodating. The Sigs as member KBurgoyne mentioned seemed to be a real nice feel. I looked at the Springfield models and they are still in the running.



I think I need to throw my price point out the window and just purely focus on what will be the right one for me... and then judge the cost to determine if it is worth it.



I am looking forward to when I attend the next gun show.

 

[tpuig]

There is a large following of 1911's, and Glocks. Almost a holy war. Both are great, but you need to find what you like and get that. Find what feels good for YOU.



In 9mm, I personally would look at the CZ 75 variant, and the 1911 based Springfield EMP. I have smaller hands and both of these feel good for ME. While I haven't handled one, the Kimber Solo looks nice and Kimbers have a very good reputation.



The EMP is a bit pricey, but it is built on a smaller frame specifically for 9mm, as opposed to converting an existing large caliber gun to shoot smaller ammo. If you pick up an EMP in 9mm and . 40, you will feel the difference.



I'm also a revolver guy, but have migrated towards the 1911 in general. Hope this helps.