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Guns, Bows, Shooting Sports, and Hunting Looking for Deer Rifle Advise
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AMink
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Here's an oddball caliber you might look into for animals up to deer size. The 6. 5x55 Swedish. It is probably the most popular hunting caliber in Europe, used on everything from varmints up to caribou! It is, apparently, an inherently accurate round. I used one on my antelope this year. It was a 120 grain Nosler ballistic tip loaded by Norma. Expensive? Sort of. Effective? The animal literally fell where it stood. The bullet went in its' throat (ok, not the best shot placement
) and proceeded to vaporize 3 or 4 vertebrae. The bone was not broken, it was gone! No exit wound. Did mess up some meat, but I didn't have to chase a wounded animal. That was the first big game I've taken, and wouldn't hesitate to use it on Mule deer, using a heavier bullet. That being said, if I had to pick one caliber only, it would be . 30-06. Loads from around 100 grains up to 225, maybe 250. Tons of fine, used firearms around the country, and ammo that is available everywhere. Can't say that about the 6. 5x55!
) and proceeded to vaporize 3 or 4 vertebrae. The bone was not broken, it was gone! No exit wound. Did mess up some meat, but I didn't have to chase a wounded animal. That was the first big game I've taken, and wouldn't hesitate to use it on Mule deer, using a heavier bullet. That being said, if I had to pick one caliber only, it would be . 30-06. Loads from around 100 grains up to 225, maybe 250. Tons of fine, used firearms around the country, and ammo that is available everywhere. Can't say that about the 6. 5x55!
I have a few rifles all of them are well suited for deer, I'll give you a list:
300 Savage is an excellent caliber for deer, it penetrates brush well and is a very good stopping round, the deer never go far after they have been hit. It is very comparible to a 308 as it is basically a 308 with a shorter neck
30-30 Winchesteris a very good deer round too, more deer have been killed with this round that most anything else out there, again heavy enough to penetrate brush and stop the deer in it's tracks
44 Magnum is a versatile round if you hunt with a handgun because you can carry one type of ammuntion for the rifle and the pistol both, penetrates brush well and is devastating upon impact. not very good for long range shooting in my experience, keep it at 100 yards or less
338 Winchester Magnum is a little on the heavy side in respect to bullet construction, your ammunition must be chosen carefully or you will merely pop a pencil sized hole through both sides of the deer with little to no expansion, however with a 200 grain winchester silver tip bullet there is no need to track any deer it will be laying where it was shot most 9 times out of 10.
8mm Mauser is a fine cartridge for deer, practice ammo is cheap on the surplus market (900 rnds of FMJ ammo for roughly 120 bucks shipped) and it has ballistics close to a 30-06. The Mauser K98K german military rifles are relatively inexpensive and shoot like a dream, i can group 3 rounds in the size of a dime with mine. it will adequately wade the thickest brush and stops game with the best of them.
45/70 Government, this is the big one of the group, a little overkill really, but the finest multi purpose round for bear, hog, moose, elk, deer, caribou, whatever else you can think of, the loadings for this caliber are numerous and can be tailored to what you hunt, they range from 300 grain to 500 grain bullets, a 300 grain hollow point is awesome on deer, and shot placement although important for a clean kill is not as critical as with a smaller rifle in terms of finding the deer should a less preferred area is hit, at 100 yards it will pick a deer up and throw it to the ground, however if you hit a bone don't expect much from that area of meat, as there is likely to be a substancial amount missing... .
I hope this helps you some, i didn't really go into specific rifles because more often than not no 2 people will like the same rifle, but I am very partial to Marlin lever actions in the 336, 1894 and 1895 models, savage model 99's, mauser k98's, pre 64 Winchester model 94's, and Ruger m77 mkII's. I only listed the calibers i have first hand experience with.
Kevin
300 Savage is an excellent caliber for deer, it penetrates brush well and is a very good stopping round, the deer never go far after they have been hit. It is very comparible to a 308 as it is basically a 308 with a shorter neck
30-30 Winchesteris a very good deer round too, more deer have been killed with this round that most anything else out there, again heavy enough to penetrate brush and stop the deer in it's tracks
44 Magnum is a versatile round if you hunt with a handgun because you can carry one type of ammuntion for the rifle and the pistol both, penetrates brush well and is devastating upon impact. not very good for long range shooting in my experience, keep it at 100 yards or less
338 Winchester Magnum is a little on the heavy side in respect to bullet construction, your ammunition must be chosen carefully or you will merely pop a pencil sized hole through both sides of the deer with little to no expansion, however with a 200 grain winchester silver tip bullet there is no need to track any deer it will be laying where it was shot most 9 times out of 10.
8mm Mauser is a fine cartridge for deer, practice ammo is cheap on the surplus market (900 rnds of FMJ ammo for roughly 120 bucks shipped) and it has ballistics close to a 30-06. The Mauser K98K german military rifles are relatively inexpensive and shoot like a dream, i can group 3 rounds in the size of a dime with mine. it will adequately wade the thickest brush and stops game with the best of them.
45/70 Government, this is the big one of the group, a little overkill really, but the finest multi purpose round for bear, hog, moose, elk, deer, caribou, whatever else you can think of, the loadings for this caliber are numerous and can be tailored to what you hunt, they range from 300 grain to 500 grain bullets, a 300 grain hollow point is awesome on deer, and shot placement although important for a clean kill is not as critical as with a smaller rifle in terms of finding the deer should a less preferred area is hit, at 100 yards it will pick a deer up and throw it to the ground, however if you hit a bone don't expect much from that area of meat, as there is likely to be a substancial amount missing... .
I hope this helps you some, i didn't really go into specific rifles because more often than not no 2 people will like the same rifle, but I am very partial to Marlin lever actions in the 336, 1894 and 1895 models, savage model 99's, mauser k98's, pre 64 Winchester model 94's, and Ruger m77 mkII's. I only listed the calibers i have first hand experience with.
Kevin
The 96 Swedish Mauser in 6. 5x55 is one of the most "out of the box" rifles you will ever find.
Kevin, I don't use factory loads but you are trading off if you are using the same . 44 round in both rifle and pistol. A pistol will blow great balls of fire with the slow burning rifle powder and a rifle will be losing velosity on pistol powder.
Kevin, I don't use factory loads but you are trading off if you are using the same . 44 round in both rifle and pistol. A pistol will blow great balls of fire with the slow burning rifle powder and a rifle will be losing velosity on pistol powder.
My great western Deer hunt
Many years ago,I just had to buy the perfect rifle for deer hunting in CO. The 7MM mag was the everything gun that was setting accuracy records at 1000 yards at camp perry in the NRA shoots. I got a Ruger M77 and hunted groundhogs with it with my 120 grain load,and practiced with it also with 164 grain Nosler Partitions. I had really studied the ballistic tables,and settled on a dead on sight ststem that would put them in the boiler room up to 300 yards.
All this planning went out the window when I saw that ''tiny'' little deer against that big mountain. I was definately out of my element of the Ohio flatlands and he looked so far away that I held right over his back. I made a nice shot,because the bullet hit--right over his back and right where I aimed. That 400 yard deer was really about 200 yards away.
IF i can give any advice that has not yet appeared,I would concentrate on getting a good bullet that will hold together in the animal you intend to shoot. The American Rifleman has an article in the latest issue about trophy bonded bullets that were tested on many game animals by the famous hunter Finn Aaguard. These are available in factory loads in Federal ammo. I would say anything 150 grain bullet weight and above and 6. 5MM[28 caliber] and above would do an outstanding job of putting deer down.
Many years ago,I just had to buy the perfect rifle for deer hunting in CO. The 7MM mag was the everything gun that was setting accuracy records at 1000 yards at camp perry in the NRA shoots. I got a Ruger M77 and hunted groundhogs with it with my 120 grain load,and practiced with it also with 164 grain Nosler Partitions. I had really studied the ballistic tables,and settled on a dead on sight ststem that would put them in the boiler room up to 300 yards.
All this planning went out the window when I saw that ''tiny'' little deer against that big mountain. I was definately out of my element of the Ohio flatlands and he looked so far away that I held right over his back. I made a nice shot,because the bullet hit--right over his back and right where I aimed. That 400 yard deer was really about 200 yards away.
IF i can give any advice that has not yet appeared,I would concentrate on getting a good bullet that will hold together in the animal you intend to shoot. The American Rifleman has an article in the latest issue about trophy bonded bullets that were tested on many game animals by the famous hunter Finn Aaguard. These are available in factory loads in Federal ammo. I would say anything 150 grain bullet weight and above and 6. 5MM[28 caliber] and above would do an outstanding job of putting deer down.
All great advice here, folks - thanks!
I've come to the conclusion of two things:
1) . 30-06 Springfield
2) bolt-action
Why?
. 30-06 Springfield is avaiable EVERYWHERE, has good ballistics, cheap, etc.
Bolt-action guns have very little slop in the action that an auto-loader has to have in it to work properly and cycle the rounds. Plus, they're cheaper than auto-loaders AND I should only be taking one, maybe two shots at a deer.
Thanks,
Matt
I've come to the conclusion of two things:
1) . 30-06 Springfield
2) bolt-action
Why?
. 30-06 Springfield is avaiable EVERYWHERE, has good ballistics, cheap, etc.
Bolt-action guns have very little slop in the action that an auto-loader has to have in it to work properly and cycle the rounds. Plus, they're cheaper than auto-loaders AND I should only be taking one, maybe two shots at a deer.
Thanks,
Matt
I agree that a bolt action will be what most should look at for a first time firearm. Semi-autos are accurate, if you know how to shoot. My M-1 shoots really good, considering it's 60 years old.
Matt
If you have a place to shoot, I'll bring up my '06 for you to try. I only have handloads. Is that garage done yet?
Paul
Matt
If you have a place to shoot, I'll bring up my '06 for you to try. I only have handloads. Is that garage done yet?
Paul
Matt,
30-06 is a good caliber but I think . 308 (7. 62x51mm) will serve you just as well.
Don't knock the semi auto's there are plenty out there that will out shoot their shooters..... just not very many cheap ones!
A savage bolt action is probably one of the best bangs for the buck out there.
OR even a scoped Russian Saiga in . 308.
30-06 is a good caliber but I think . 308 (7. 62x51mm) will serve you just as well.
Don't knock the semi auto's there are plenty out there that will out shoot their shooters..... just not very many cheap ones!
A savage bolt action is probably one of the best bangs for the buck out there.
OR even a scoped Russian Saiga in . 308.
I have heard great things about the 338 Federal cartridge, as effective as a 338 win mag but half the cost per shell and half the kick. If you have the cash, you can get a tikka, sako or similar rifle that weights around five pounds. The trick with the 338 Federal cartridge is a state of the art powder mix.
Chuck Hawkes review of this cartridge stated "In their new . 338 Federal has offered hunters a nearly ideal cartridge to fill the perceived need for both a useful woods cartridge and a powerful yet controllable medium bore. We have asked for such a cartridge for many years, and now Federal has provided it. "http://www.chuckhawks.com/338_federal_first_look.htm
I have not yet tried this cartridge, but am saving up as it is said to be a decent all around deer and elk load that penetrates deep enough to give you a chance against a charging bear.
Chuck Hawkes review of this cartridge stated "In their new . 338 Federal has offered hunters a nearly ideal cartridge to fill the perceived need for both a useful woods cartridge and a powerful yet controllable medium bore. We have asked for such a cartridge for many years, and now Federal has provided it. "http://www.chuckhawks.com/338_federal_first_look.htm
I have not yet tried this cartridge, but am saving up as it is said to be a decent all around deer and elk load that penetrates deep enough to give you a chance against a charging bear.
Matt! Come on, a good all around gun for frogs up to Bear, moose- . 300 Win. Mag. !!!!
If you're not not going much beyond 300 yards (and 90% of all hunters don't) the Marlin 1895SG lever action chambered in . 45-70 Govt is a great gun. Easy to manuver, hike around with all day, and will take anything in North America down. Also with the new Hornady LeverEvolution ammo, shots out to 300 yards are entirely possible. Plus the ammo is dirt-cheap and can be puchased almost anywhere like the 30-06. 
Bush gun---. 30-06 for deer,but i overall like the 7MM rem mag for just about everything i hunt. 140gr Nosler partition slug for the deer and 175gr for everything else. When i was young and invincable i bought a . 338, boy that thing is a cannon for me today,shot lots of moose/deer etc with it but i think is is too much gun for me now,if i was to hunt Grizzly then thats what i would use,210 to 250 grain slug would knock it on its *****. A few weeks ago where i have hunted deer for 20+ years a guy went out hunting alone and never came back,they found his remains from a grizzly attack,he got one shot off but must of missed. Local game wardens have tried to trap the bear but its probable in its den now out for the winter with a full belly, needless to say the Mrs has been ridding my butt ever since the attack not to go out alone now. PS-- Thanks to our bleeding heart Liberal government for the most of 30+years(ban all guns) i'd love to be able to carry a nice semi-auto 9MM as back up for those just in case incidents like the above. DW
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Thanks again for the advice, guys.
Beers,
Matt
Beers,
Matt
AMink
TDR MEMBER
Ah, dragging up the old threads! I was reading this again and the "flinch" is mentioned. I have . 338 WinMag that will make you flinch! I put a Limbsaver recoil pad on it and it is a changed gun! I went from 3-5 painful shots to a 20 round box at the range. It is absolutely the best recoil pad I've used. If your rifle is a pain in the shoulder, it is worth the time and money to get one. You will be able to shoot more, which in turn will make you a better shot.
I'm not really a hunter, but my BIL is, and deer hunted alone last year because he is new to the area, and doesn't know too many other hunters in this area - his wife went with him, but just for company. SO, this year, I bought a deer rifle and bought the combined fishing/hunting license, and will go out with him in the Fall, if we get drawn.
Gun I bought was a new Remington 270 - don't know much about them, other than the fact the "gun purists" really talk it down - but I wanted a relatively inexpensive, but utility, rifle that was capable of straight and reliable shooting, but wouldn't be so fancy or delicate I'd be afraid for it to get knocked around a bit or get scraped up on rocks and brush - I don't plan to make a career out of deer/elk hunting, and DERN sure don't want/need a $1000 rifle!
Gun I bought was a new Remington 270 - don't know much about them, other than the fact the "gun purists" really talk it down - but I wanted a relatively inexpensive, but utility, rifle that was capable of straight and reliable shooting, but wouldn't be so fancy or delicate I'd be afraid for it to get knocked around a bit or get scraped up on rocks and brush - I don't plan to make a career out of deer/elk hunting, and DERN sure don't want/need a $1000 rifle!
necessary guns
A person could get by with a few choice guns. A varmint rifle--22-250, an intermediate rifle--. 308Win(I prefer bolts but am fond of my Sprngfld M1A), and a big game gun-. 375H&H. Buy and reload as much as possible. I prefer bullets from GS Custom out of South Africa. One also needs a . 22. An old Winchester pump or a cheap Savage bolt has served me Very well. A shotgun is also needed. A pump is certainly durable, but due to the most likely magazine bans to be imposed by a democratic president I'd likely opt for a good side-by-side, or over-under.
I could probably get away with forgetting the varmint gun. I have hunted with many calibers, but my favorites are: 222Rem, . 257Roberts, . 308Win. , 375H&H, and of course my 22 rimfires.
These are my favorites. Opinions vary. That is the great thing about living in America. One can have an opinion and not get asassinated because of them, unless you are an oil speculator
A person could get by with a few choice guns. A varmint rifle--22-250, an intermediate rifle--. 308Win(I prefer bolts but am fond of my Sprngfld M1A), and a big game gun-. 375H&H. Buy and reload as much as possible. I prefer bullets from GS Custom out of South Africa. One also needs a . 22. An old Winchester pump or a cheap Savage bolt has served me Very well. A shotgun is also needed. A pump is certainly durable, but due to the most likely magazine bans to be imposed by a democratic president I'd likely opt for a good side-by-side, or over-under.
I could probably get away with forgetting the varmint gun. I have hunted with many calibers, but my favorites are: 222Rem, . 257Roberts, . 308Win. , 375H&H, and of course my 22 rimfires.
These are my favorites. Opinions vary. That is the great thing about living in America. One can have an opinion and not get asassinated because of them, unless you are an oil speculator
M-700 Remington
I've pretty much stayed out of the perfect cartridge search for obvious reasons. However there are some things I would like to address. There are NO FLIES on the Remington M-700. It is and has been used as a Tactical Sniper Platform by The USMC and US ARMY as well as various law enforcement agencys, including the FBI. A factory Remington in any Cartridge configuration can be Tuned like a Dodge/Cummins Diesel Truck. Some Cartridges are inherently more accurate than others. All things being equal, of course they're not, a M-700 Will shoot into a postage stamp with some tricks like pillar bedding the action, free floating the barrel and careful hand loads. Many will shoot bughole groups.
Another question was asked, Why will a Bolt action shoot more accurately than a Auto loader or lever action. Subjectively, depends. Objectively, there is only the barrel on a accurate bolt rifle and that is free floated with no interference, the action is not under a bind and the trigger breaks clean (Simplified version). An Accurized Semi-auto will have a minimal amount of junk hanging off the barrel, but it still has the gas mechanism attached as well as the function of that gas system interfering with the vibrations of the barrel.
A Lever action rifle and falling block Single Shot rifles have two piece stocks. That is one cause of interference. A tubular magazine for a lever rifle like a 336 Marlin and a forend attached directly to the barrel/tube magazine are also interferences. An 1899 Savage has the forend attached to the barrel with a tenon that inserts into the front of the receiver.
Its all about Periodic Waves and where the node is when the bullet leaves the barrel. The node should be at the muzzle at the same place in space, each shot for consistant precision. If you interfere with the Nodes and antinodes you got a pattern instead of a group. If you have an adjustment like the BOSS system you can tune the node by lengthining or shortening the barrel. Handloads tune a rifle by causing a "strike" like a bell at different frequencys. There are also mechanical and ammunition issues that I have not discussed. This is just a general answer. Hope this is helpful. GregH
I've pretty much stayed out of the perfect cartridge search for obvious reasons. However there are some things I would like to address. There are NO FLIES on the Remington M-700. It is and has been used as a Tactical Sniper Platform by The USMC and US ARMY as well as various law enforcement agencys, including the FBI. A factory Remington in any Cartridge configuration can be Tuned like a Dodge/Cummins Diesel Truck. Some Cartridges are inherently more accurate than others. All things being equal, of course they're not, a M-700 Will shoot into a postage stamp with some tricks like pillar bedding the action, free floating the barrel and careful hand loads. Many will shoot bughole groups.
Another question was asked, Why will a Bolt action shoot more accurately than a Auto loader or lever action. Subjectively, depends. Objectively, there is only the barrel on a accurate bolt rifle and that is free floated with no interference, the action is not under a bind and the trigger breaks clean (Simplified version). An Accurized Semi-auto will have a minimal amount of junk hanging off the barrel, but it still has the gas mechanism attached as well as the function of that gas system interfering with the vibrations of the barrel.
A Lever action rifle and falling block Single Shot rifles have two piece stocks. That is one cause of interference. A tubular magazine for a lever rifle like a 336 Marlin and a forend attached directly to the barrel/tube magazine are also interferences. An 1899 Savage has the forend attached to the barrel with a tenon that inserts into the front of the receiver.
Its all about Periodic Waves and where the node is when the bullet leaves the barrel. The node should be at the muzzle at the same place in space, each shot for consistant precision. If you interfere with the Nodes and antinodes you got a pattern instead of a group. If you have an adjustment like the BOSS system you can tune the node by lengthining or shortening the barrel. Handloads tune a rifle by causing a "strike" like a bell at different frequencys. There are also mechanical and ammunition issues that I have not discussed. This is just a general answer. Hope this is helpful. GregH
For heavy recoilers off the bench--use a drag bag. I'm sure commercial versions are made, but I use a home brew 25# shot strapped over the butt to give the rifle something more than my shoulder to push. Benching heavy guns just ain't fun.
In the field, it's never an issue unless the shooter got scared or flinchy from range testing--hence the bag.
keep your powder dry and your greasy fingers offa them primers!
In the field, it's never an issue unless the shooter got scared or flinchy from range testing--hence the bag.
keep your powder dry and your greasy fingers offa them primers!
I ended up with a Savage model 116 in . 30-06 - stainless barrel with a black synthetic stock. To mount on top - a Leupold Rifleman 3-9x40mm.
Its first shot since I brought it home in March was last Saturday. It didn't kick bad at all - nowhere near as bad as I expected... but - WOW! It's pretty LOUD! (without ear protection) :-laf
Beers,
Matt
Its first shot since I brought it home in March was last Saturday. It didn't kick bad at all - nowhere near as bad as I expected... but - WOW! It's pretty LOUD! (without ear protection) :-laf
Beers,
Matt
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Issue 128 – Digital Version
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