Guns, Bows, Shooting Sports, and Hunting Looking for Deer Rifle Advise

[NVR FNSH]

Some observations from another 'beginner' deer hunter. I shot a doe in Texas when I was 13 and this is the first year I've been since that time - I'm 32.



I shot the Texas doe at about 70yds with a Sako . 270 and that's what I'm using this year. It was my dad's gun when we lived in Texas and it's sighted at 200 yds. I'm hunting Northern Ca - Hwy 36 between Fortuna & Red Bluff - with guys/gals that are shooting . 243s/. 270/. 30-06/7mm Mag etc. We are hunting timber, oak groves and some 'open' country - longest shot would be ~500 yds across a valley. There is no such thing as flat ground where we are hunting. My buddy shot to 3x2s opening weekend with his 7mm Mag. Both were shot at ~30 yds. His first buck came up behind him as he was glassing across a valley with his scope on 9x. His first shot was a gut shot because all he could see was hair with his scope at 9x. He & his brother took 4 shots at the buck and finally killed him with a head shot. I scared the second buck towards him on a drive and he made a nice clean head shot - only shot he had. My point? Seriously consider the terrain you'll be hunting before chosing your rifle. Just as a side note: the stock on Mike's 7mm mag broke in half right behind the trigger. And Mike was complaining about the kick at the range when we sighted the guns. My . 270 is a ***** cat in comparison



Brian

 

[Papa Joe]

My recommendation for a first rifle (without any other criteria) is a 30-06. Ammo is available anywhere (if a store has ammo, it has 30-06) in a variety of bullet weights. Truly the most versatile North American caliber.



Specialty calibers, if needed, can come later.



Joe



PS A fellow should be allowed, by his wife, to have a 22, 22-250, 223, 270, 7mm, 300 winmag,... ... . oops, sorry dear

 

[merryman]

Read Pat McManus

Any of you guys read Pat McManus?

If you like hunting and fishing "Yarns", he's the master!

He has one on the subject of how many guns you can get past your wife; his conclusion is that after about four, you can buy all the guns you want because from that point, to your wife, it will always just be a bunch of guns.

Try him for outdoor humor.



Vaughn

 

[Scot]

I will second what Papa Joe says. There are a bunch of really neat wildcat calibers, relics, and hard to find calibers. The only problem is when you pull into the gate of your hunting ground and remember that your ammo is still safely sitting at home on the kitchen table. Try finding . 30 carbine ammo in the only store in town in south Texas... When I finally earned enough money to buy my own rifle, I went with a . 270.

 

[A Johnson]

Now that you are probably totally confused, with all the excellent suggestions, heres my two cents.



By a gun that fits you good, most all the suggested calibers will take all the lower 48 animals just fine. I liked the comment about using a little planning and shoeleather. Next practice, practice,practice, there is no substitute for confidence in your shooting and shot placement. Shoot sitting, standing , kneeling, crawling etc. Try running 100 yards as hard as you can (without your gun) and a 30 pound pack on your back, load your rifle at hit a paper plate at 100 yards or so offhand. I think it was Jeff Cooper said " Its not what you once did, but what you can do on demand that matters". As for sighting in a rifle, I like the . 270, 06 etc dead on at 200 yds.



I myself still hunt with the modern rifles and enjoy them very much. I've switched to muzzleloaders as these blacktails are normally not over fifty yards away where I hunt, and it adds a little excitment wondering if it will go off in the pouring rain. So far so good.

A Johnson.

 

[JSmith]

30`06 hands down. If it weighs over 2000lbs,then the 30`06 might be a bit small.



If it moves in Texas an `06 will kill it.

 

[Papa Joe]

I'm back.



On the other hand, if you KNOW there will be 'other' rifles in your future... ... ... .



I'd go . 270. A little lighter than the -06, but with matching energy in the 165 grain bullets at distance. Nice report on the 270, too.



When you need 308, then you can go 300 Win mag for horsepower. Or larger, if necessary.



Choices, choices, my my... ... ... .

:--)

 

[DMalone]

deer rifles

I saw your post and read most all the respones and there is a lot of good advise here. If you are just starting out and the shots probably will not be very long shots then i would stick to some of the all time proven calibers. I have hunted for close to 35 years and i hunt in different states. I would suggest a 308 or 7-08 for the short action rifles. They are very good shooters in the remington 700 bolt guns and are not hard on you. I have taken some very nice whitetails and mule deer with both of these calibers. For long actions and a little more range the 270, 7mmag, are very good for deer or larger game ay longer ranges. The 338wmag,300wmag are a harder hitting round and have great knock down power. I have been using a 300rem ultra mag now for three years and it is some kind of serious medicene and i love it, i have have one shot take downs and no tracking at all. I have a sherpard scope and it is a great set-up. Buy the best scope you can and mount the scope low on the rifle, and then go buy a lot of ammo. Pactice all you can. I like to shoot at least 100 rounds for every 100 yards, this will teach you the rifles and calibers range, and shooting techques and you will get real good. I take it personal when i see sloppy hunters that dont practice and wound game, it makes me sick. I dont want to see anything suffer. Take your time and place your shots, chest broad side heart,lung. Get as close as possible and know your rifle. Its a great sport, and you will make friends for life. Be safe and have fun.

 

[The patriot]

I'd say depends on where youre doing the hunting.

Thick heavy brush you'd want something that can go through (a reasonable amount of it) and hit the target.

I recently got a Marlin guide gun in 45-70. I think this is an ideal gun-caliber for this type of hunting.

These are strong guns, and I'm told that you can stoke the handloads real nicely. 400 gr bullets to 2000 FPS !!!

I'd venture to say you'd be able to take anything in North America with a load like that..... under 100 yds.

As stated by many, you cant go wrong with the 30-06 either.

Eric

 

[BV]

Deer Rifle

I didn't read the whole tread but didn't see mention to a 25-06 which I have been very happy with over the last 26 years since I started hunting.



The 25-06 is based on the same casing as the 270 or 30-06 with the exception of being 25 caliber. Ammo is easy to buy or hand-loaded and the recoil is less than the other 2. It is very well suited for small game (deer, antelope or smaller) for ranges out to 500 yards. It's also a very fast cartridge pushing 3000 fps.



I hand-load my 25-06 from 30-06 (cuz it's easy to find) brass necked down, 54 grains or Hogden 4831 and a Speer 120g Boat Tail Spitzers and have many successful hunts including my 1'st Elk shot at 300 yards.



Hate to admit it but the rifle shots better than me - What I mean is if I can hold it on target - It will do it

 

[NVR FNSH]

Re: Deer Rifle

Originally posted by BV

Hate to admit it but the rifle shots better than me - What I mean is if I can hold it on target - It will do it

It's not just you... . I have the same problem with my rifle, dirtbike, mountain bike, just about any piece of equipment I own. The weak link is usually the operator... ... .





Brian

 

[Diesel Freak]

They dont make them anymore, but I love my Weatherby Mk. V Sporter that is chambered for . 270 Win.



It's a tack driver!



if you can find one GET IT!

 

[DLeach]

My 2 Yen

If your shots are being taken at around 100 yards or shorter in heavy brush i dont think there is a better gun than a Ruger

. 44 mag carbine rifle. I use that for goats, deer, and the biggest pigs you can find here. Its a light gun easy to pack while climbing and shoots very nice with open sights... and even better with a light scope. And we all know what a 44 mag can do when its hits you. Ive yet to see a pig walk away from a close shot with one of these. Only other gun i would use over here is a nice stainless

45-70 guide gun. Anyway thats the way is is over here. All close range stuff. If its long range, . 270 or 30-06 is hard to beat. And never under estimate the old timer, the 30-30, its probably killed more deer and animal in north america than any caliber. Aloha!!

 

[WadePatton]

Sorry I missed this post, but here goes my late advice.



First, get at bolt-action. They're usually more accurate and much easier to clean. You can render the weapon totally safe by removing the bolt. I always check my barrel for obstructions every outing by pulling the bolt and peering through the BBL from the breach.



The Ruger single-shot is good too.



Also get a laminated wood or fiberglass stock. SS is nice, but not necessary. And spend as much on the scope and mounts as you do the rifle. You'll be glad you did. DO NOT use see-through mounts. They are weak and cheesy and move your head too far off the stock.



Ahh, cartridges. I recommend anything . 250-35 caliber non-magnum. You could develop a serious shooting problem(flinch) by starting out on a . 338WM.



Specific Calibers. . 257 Roberts, . 25-06, . 260, 6. 5x55, . 270, 7mm Mauser, . 284, 7mm-08, . 280, . 308, . 30-06, 8mm Mauser, . 35 Whelen.



These are fairly mainstream calibers and will do most anything a high-powered rifle needs to do. Stick with the heavier bullets in 25-27. Middle-weight bullets will do in the rest. Heavier bullets will cause more recoil in the bigger bores.



And shoot it a lot, try different ammos/bullet wieghts for better grouping, learn good bench technique for ammo testing/sighting, keep that BBL sparkling clean with copper-solvent and frequent cleaning.



Back to caliber- 270, 308, and 30-06 are your most common ones and there's not a deer out there that'll ever know the difference. You can always get a bigger/smaller pertier gun later. I think I have 7 or 9 "deer rifles" and one "deer" pistol.



Let me know when you're ready to discuss powders, presses, dies, custom bbls, triggers, bullets, and all that other stuff stuck in my head.



and in the words from "TK and Mike Outdoors" -Getcher self a biggun!- deer that is.

 

[Skydiver]

Wade Patton,

I learned something from your last post.

Flinch? Is there some way to teach a new hunter to better cope with it. My Wife started hunting last year using a Browning A-bolt 270. She missed 2 deer last season at 135 yards. Never thought of FLINCH.

My friend Mike(not TK & Mike)Has bought his 15 Year old son (170 lb Football player,No bench time)a 338 ultra-mag. WAIT-You know after a second thought let the boy keep flinching,his loss might be my wives gain.

Did you know that Mike from TK & Mike has passed away about a year ago. He lived 1 mile north of my house on the same county road. I now wish I had paid the man a visit.

Tim

 

[jwdeeming]

Re: Wade Patton,

Originally posted by Skydiver

Did you know that Mike from TK & Mike has passed away about a year ago. He lived 1 mile north of my house on the same county road. I now wish I had paid the man a visit.

Tim

What happened??? Those guys were hilarious - that's really sad news.

 

[WadePatton]

Re: Wade Patton,

Originally posted by Skydiver

I learned something from your last post.

Flinch? Is there some way to teach a new hunter to better cope with it. My Wife started hunting last year using a Browning A-bolt 270. She missed 2 deer last season at 135 yards.

You can check her for flinch by going back to targets and slipping her an unloaded gun. I do it to pistol shooters all the time. Let her shoot a few rounds- maybe even dry-fire practice. But when she drops the hammer on an empty chamber and fully expects it to go off-you'll see if there is a flinch.



Now to work on it. Lots of intentional dry-fire practice. Focusing on fundmentals of shooting. A better trigger or have it tuned by good smith. Reduce recoil in that rifle by the lighter bullets, especially in practice. But don't shoot varmint weight bullets at deer. Shoot a lot with a good . 22 rimfire-or other recoiless gun. And periodically check for the flinch.



As for the 135yd shot. Most people would miss that shot off-hand. But if rested it should have been easy enough--cept for ol BUCK FEVER.



If you're just hunting a new gun. (The A-bolt is a good one, but it is fairly light and that contributes to recoil/flinch. I have one in 30-06. ) I'd go with a 250 Savage, 257 Roberts, 25-06, 7mm Mauser, or 7mm-08 in a medium-light rig--not ultra light. Those cartridges will take out deer at 235 yards any day of the week.



OH, and I almost forgot sound. If you have a BOSS equipped rifle that may be part of the problem. Many times flinching results from the particularly loud blast of a brake-equipped rifle. NEVER shoot a braked rifle without "ears". I wear hearing protection when pistol hunting.

My friend Mike(not TK & Mike)Has bought his 15 Year old son (170 lb Football player,No bench time)a 338 ultra-mag. WAIT-You know after a second thought let the boy keep flinching,his loss might be my wives gain.

Testosterone overrun. Give the kid a mighty gun and watch the wildlife slip right by. Maybe dad knows what he was doing--keeping the bucks for himself.

Did you know that Mike from TK & Mike has passed away about a year ago. He lived 1 mile north of my house on the same county road. I now wish I had paid the man a visit.

Tim

HOLY COW, wasn't he a bit young?



And I still walk around and say stuff like, "Sumbuddy done eat UP all da bread"

 

[Skydiver]

If I remember correctly it was testicler cancer.

I would see him often driving his new black Ford 4x4 diesel with large tires and a Confederate tag on front with a buck painted in the background.

Thanks again for the info W. P.

Tim

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Great old thread!

First, get at bolt-action. They're usually more accurate and much easier to clean. You can render the weapon totally safe by removing the bolt.

I went out deer hunting last Saturday here in WI with my neighbor and a member of his family. Since I only have a Marlin 795 . 22LR, I left it at home and helped them drive the critters out of the tall grass. We ended up with 2 does and the other next door neighbor got a pretty nice buck. Needless to say, there are a LOT of very well fed deer in my neck of the woods.



Seems like . 30-06 is the most popular caliber (I've narrowed my choices down to either the . 30-06 or a . 308 Winchester... ), but I'm curious as to why a bolt-action has the potential to be more accurate than semi-auto, lever action, etc... ?



I may not buy a gun this year, but I'm hoping to have one before gun season starts in '08. At least I have the caliber/cartridge picked out.



Also, I've probably only fired 1000 shots in my life. Interestingly, a large portion of those were in Las Vegas at The Gun Store - where I shot a . 45 Tommy Gun and a 9mm UZI. The damn UZI jammed and kept firing after I took my finger off the trigger... that was fun! :-laf



Anywho - what can I do (beside just go out and shoot... ) to reduce and/or eliminate flinching or lifting the gun as I pull the trigger?



Beers,



Matt

 

[BILLVO]

I would recommend a 25-06 or 270 over a 30-06 if anyone shoots in any kind of hills. The 30-06 has a high trajectory and it takes a lot of shooting to figure out how to compensate for that. The 270 and 25-06 have a lot flatter trajectory that is easier to shoot long distance or in hilly terain than the 30-06.



The 308 isn't bad either but it is a tad large if you ever go hunting smaller critters.



The 7mm mag is a real good one too but you will develop a real fear of pulling the trigger with it as it has a bad recoil.



I have and shoot all of these but I highly prefer my 700 remington 22-250. I have shot all my dear in the past 5 years and it is also my varmint gun. I have lost no dear with it. It is so fast it actually does more damage than the bigger cartriges.



243 are a very popular rifle for those wanting 1 gun for dear and fur bearers like coyotes ect.



The best way to overcome the flinch is to spend a lot of time shooting. Hit a rifle range once a month and fire a box or two at a time. You will be rewarded when you get a nice critter in the sights after practicing.



Semi autos loose some of the power and accuracy due to having the ejector moving back during the firing process. Can't give an honest answer for the levers though.