Competition Looking for input on SBC's DD

[Gypsyman]

After talking to Piers and Peter I'm leaning more and more towards the SBC DD clutch. Peter had recommended the 3250# 6CB for my application. I'm looking for input on the driveability and towing manners of the DD clutches. How noisy, how grabby, how bad are they for daily driving. Just trying to get a feel for what to expect. Power's going to be up around 500 hopefully however daily use is a bunch lower. Here's the combo that I'll be ending up with:



TST w/twins program (pretty heavy on the low side fueling)

VA C3. 1 pressure box

RASP

Piers Twins

Snow's Water/Meth (come spring)

ARP's (to keep the lid on it)



I know that there's quite a few out running around but I'm having a tough time locating the owners.



Richard

 

[JGK]

I have about 350 miles on mine (3600 6CB). It definately takes some re-training to learn how to take off from a dead stop without chatter. I'm still learning how to do slow speed maneuvering in parking lots with out jerking the transmission around. The first 100 to 200 miles has you wondering if it was the right choice, but it gets easier/better after that. If you do much delicate backing of trailers it will be more challenging with this clutch.



They also rattle a bit when you sit with the pedal pressed in. I'm going to wrap my bell housing with some sound deadener to tone it down a bit. And for some reason, getting the transmission into gear (usually first from reverse, or from some forward gear into reverse) at a stop has gotten difficult. I assume that's from the new 1-3/8 input shaft and I hope it will loosen up with wear.



On the other hand, once rolling, shifting is just as easy as my previous Con O and the stock clutch. Pedal resistance is a bit more but you quickly get used to it. I haven't really stood on it to see how does under more stress yet, but I'm sure there will be no problem.



I knew going into it there would be some chatter issues to work through, but I wasn't aware of the rattle when disengaged. That's probably my only "complaint".



-Jay

 

[Gypsyman]

Peter mentioned that he could strap the floater to stop the rattle with the clutch in but it would still rattle in nuetral with the clutch out. That rattle is caused by the vibration from the cylinder pressure spikes. Funny how many different reports you get regarding the chatter and rattle. Before anyone starts flaming, I know that there are trade-offs. I'm just looking for the best balance between PIA and function.

 

[Jeff_K]

I am also in the market for a new clutch. My setup is very similar to Gypsyman's, so your feedback is greatly appreciated. I am also trying to choose betweent he DD (probably 3600lb) and the FE. I don't care if it rattles, I just want a clutch that will stand up to a little street abuse. I am not going to be drag racing, just toying with ricers from time to time. I have been told by a few to just stay with an FE because of the accelerated synchro wear with the DD. What do you guys think??

 

[Fred Swanson]

JGK, the rattle when engaged is acceptable to me, as I don't make a habit of sitting still with the clutch engaged. Yours does have the flwheel with insert, right?

You'll find you can release slower and actually feather it to make backing or parking lot manuevers smoother.

If you checked the input shaft clearance with the discs, they should slide on the bigger input without much effort.

If you push to the floor, do you get any chatter at all with the pedal in? I can fully engage mine, and go between 1st and reverse. If it is a little stiff, try stabbing 3rd before going to either. The new design and good hydraulics will net a smoother engaging clutch, with no drag on the input at all.

I'm also interested to hear others' feedback on the latest DD clutches Peter has designed. I feel they are much better than the FE's for all types of use, and again, if they drive as smooth as the singles, then you should not see exaggerated synchro wear.



My original one had the strapped down floating flywheel, the new one does not. Even my wife says the new one is quieter, and doesn't complain about why my truck makes so much noise when sitting there idling.



The new one has the flywheel insert, which to me has made a huge improvement to the drivability of this clutch.

 

[Gypsyman]

Well, for the life of me I can't find anyone around Spokane with a DD. How loud is this rattle we're talking about? Loud enough to be obnoxious in the cab? Can you drive around the chatter on a normal take off from a light like you can with the OFE?

 

[Fred Swanson]

Richard, with mine, it is not too loud. JGK has a 12V, I'm surprised he can hear it that much over the motor. With the 3G, I'd think it would be the loudest, since the motor is quieter.

With windows up, radio playing low volume, you don't notice it. With windows down, you can hear it.

I am liking the possible idea of wrapping the bellhousing. But for now, it's okay by me.

 

[Gypsyman]

Maybe an SFI blanket would quiet them down. I've read of them possibly being required if you want to pull. Maybe they would pull double duty as a sound suppressor also.

 

[Turbo Thom]

The rattle is heard through the stick. You can move the stick and change the intenseity and tone. It just seems something to get used to.



. . Preston. .

 

[Gypsyman]

Thanks Preston! That's the kind of little stuff I've been looking for.



Richard

 

[clawson]

The rattle is not that bad. The noise is nothing. I have had 4 DD from peter. Would not even think about another brand. I just installed the new 3200 and love it. I would say there is not much difference in that and stock. My leg can barely tell. I had the 3850 in my 01 and could definately tell. This engages very smoothly and taking off is smoother than an fe in my opinion. Reverse is even smooth in this clutch.

I would definately recommend this 3200 to anyone who is deciding between this and a fe.



Chris

 

[Gypsyman]

Chris,



That's exactly where I'm at with this. FE or 3200 6CB. It's a lot of extra cash since the OFE has to come out anyway (botched install) but it looks like it will be worth it. Are you running the 6CB's or the 12?



Richard

 

[JGK]

Fred, Gypsyman,



I can hear the rattle in the cab, but it's not obnoxious. Like you, Fred, at lights I don't sit with my foot on the pedal. I just pop it into neutral and relax until the light changes. I did notice if I press the pedal nearly to the floor I can feel something rubbing and I get a quick thumping noise (at idle). I asked Peter about it and he said that is normal and has something to do with the release levers. He also said it will nearly go away in time. No need to push it to the floor anyway, so its not an issue.



I've found that engagement from a stop takes one of two approaches to avoid chatter: either rev it good like you intend to take off with some authority (not spinning tires, however) and let it out and go, or give it just a little throttle and leave your foot there and let it out fairly quickly - let the revs come down as the load comes on, then once engaged roll into it. Either approach virtually eliminates all chatter. The typical easy take off with a little progressive throttle and a slower, even engagement will usually result in chatter. You just have to be a bit more agressive with engagement with these then you're used to. At least, that's my take on it. It will still give me fits occassionally and I have to get brutal. Laid 20ft of rubber this afternoon at the mall because it was pi$$ing me off! Felt good!



I think as far as the rattle sound goes, you'll get looks from people with their windows down, but so what. Just sounds funny as you roll to a stop and suddenly your truck has this unusual metallic rattle.



I'll let you know how the sound deadener works out in a few days.



-Jay

 

[Gypsyman]

OK guys, it looks like you have me convinced to give this a try. Hopefully I can get the warranty details worked out between Piers and Peter and all of this goes smoothly. Peter seemed like a good guy to deal with during our short conversations and you know that Piers is a stand up guy, no questions asked. Can't wait to get up there and get started on all of this!



Man this is gonna' be a spendy trip. :-laf

 

[Fred Swanson]

Richard, I feel nothing in the shifter, and I can't change it by moving or pressing the shifter up against a gate. I think on the 3rd Gens it is not very noticeable.

And I can ease the clutch out, and get no shudder, even with a 9K pound load. This clutch let's you feather it much easier.



When are you going up? JGK, let us know what you find out on the transmission blanket, sound deadening.



Yeah, it does take some getting used to. Just letting the clutch out and feeling the snap as it grabs, isn't always the best way with this clutch. I find either slip it until it is all the way out, or give it a small amount of throttle and slip it, and it will engage without a chatter or jerk.

 

[clawson]

I have the 12button but i do plan on pulling one or two times a year. I love this clutch much better then my old 3850, mainly because i do the same things with both trucks and i still have a very stiff clutch in the puller. If i want to feel a stiff clutch i will jump in that. This clutch is not very stiff at all and i always give it a little fuel at takeoff(usually start in 2nd gear) i have no issues at all. It definately does need a little practice to get used to but i guarantee you will have no regrets going with the DD. Never have to worry about more power, unless you are going really extreme.



Chris

 

[Gypsyman]

Fred,



I'll be up there next week and I'll be staying as long as Piers needs to test fit the prototype piping kits and get my upgrades done. Probably going to take a week.





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Chris,



I really appreciate all the input that you and everyone else have given in this thread. It sure makes a decision like this a lot easier knowing what to expect going in. BTW, what kind of clutch life are you seeing on your non-pulling trucks?





Richard

 

[jwilliams3]

Richard,

Get a 12Valve slave and master unit.

That will be the first thing to go with your new dual disk on a 3rd gen.

 

[Gypsyman]

I'm glad you brought that up. I was just doing a search on that very thing. Peter said the #3200 plate load is the same as the FE. Also said that it wouldn't be needed but if a problem came up to give him a call for one. If a problem came up?



Have people been changing them for the FE? Does it need to be changed at #3200 or not? Probably better safe than sorry. Piers is going to be sick of me before I even get there. :-laf



Richard

 

[jwilliams3]

Just buy one and change it out.

I did a little write up a while back on how to make the adjustable rod.



Mine was fine with the 3600, swtiched to the 3850 and it was out in 2 weeks.

Others have lost theirs with the 3600.

I wouldnt want to be stuck on the side of the road somewhere with a blown master!