Looking for the "Perfect Lift Pump"! Mallory 140 Comp takes a dive!

[BIG BOB]

Friday after Thanksgiving my Mallory 140 blew a fuse, I installed a new fuse and every time the lift pump started it had a loud knock for about 1 second and then continued to run only louder than usual. The gauge also bounced continously from 7 to 15 lbs. I figured it was on it's way out so the following Sunday I called Century Performance Center, they said it would be warrantied, I would just have to send it back. I couldn't be without my truck waiting for them to diagnose the failure, so I just ordered another one and figured I have the failure repaired and save it for a spare.



Last Thursday the Mallory gave up. (It had only been installed since April somewhere around 22,000 miles. ) Yes, in snow, sleet and rain! Had a ton of thing going on when it went out, which I won't bore you with. Anyway changed it out and in about 30 minutes was on my way again.



Has anybody located the "Perfect Lift Pump" yet? Still looking for it!



I know Ted Jannetty had the dual pump setup, but can't see any benefit in it. If one pump goes out, your still in the same boat, but you now have 2 pumps to worry about. My Mallory has been move to the frame rail before the fuel tank with a Racor 645 10 micro filter before it. (See my pictures) I would much rather change it on the frame rail than a stock one in the stock position.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Bob it's good to see you've pulled things together enough to get back onto TDR. You've had enough to deal with lately. It's nice to have you back!



There is one thing I am wondering could have caused your problem. Do you know the flow rate of your Racor filter? It probably flows plenty but I am wondering if maybe it has enough inherent restriction to cause the pump to work harder than if there was no filter, or maybe a coarse filter. I am suggesting possible cavitaton, especially now with colder weather which will cause the fuel to be more viscous & harder to draw through the media. I know Mallory wants a filter before the pump but maybe they only had a coarse mesh filter or something in mind. I guess I don't have any other suggestions. I know you put a lot of work into your setup and it's a nice one, so hopefully it was just that the pump pooped on its own .



I am fixing to install the 140gph Carter pump I got from Summit, which I hope will be a durable pump. That is what some others such as Evan have installed on their trucks. I am thinking of using an Edelbrock inline filter that you can order with -8AN fittings that flows almost 1000gph.



Good luck and don't hesitate to call me if you need anything Bob.



Vaughn

 

[John]

Originally posted by Vaughn MacKenzie

... or maybe (use) a coarse filter.



This won't work in Bob's setup Vaughn. The Racor 645 (pre-)filter is the ONLY filter he is using in his system... the OE filter has been removed from the OE filter housing (i. e. , the OE filter housing is only used for its fuel heating abilities). A filter with a higher micron rating is taking a big chance... Cummins requires the use of a filter not exceeding 10 microns. However, one possible solution would be to reinstall a 10 micron filter element in the OE filter housing (Fleetguard #FS19528) and replace the 10 micron filter in the Racor (pre-)filter with a 30-40 micron filtering element (Mallory requires the prefilter media not to exceed 40 microns).



Good luck and don't hesitate to call me if you need anything Bob.



Vaughn

That goes for me as well Bob.

 

[Steve Campbell]

I wonder if some sort of "splash" guard should be installed over the pusher pump to keep the harsh environment from working so hard on the outside of the system. Living here in the mountains, we see lots of salt, mut, snow and Ice in the winter.

 

[MikeR]

I feel your frustration Bob. After buring up my 3rd stock pump a week ago, I was ready to order my new fuel system with a 4140M on friday... that was until I got your email friday morning. Now I haven't decided yet to go through with it or not. This is getting rediculous!



I'm going to go back up to Doc Maynards marine supply place and look through their pumps again.



-Mike

 

[Mopar-muscle]

mike r , where is your stock pump located in the stock location still ? i would move it rearward to infront of the tank . we did that on bills truck when i was up there and the fuel pressure went from 0 WOT to 3 psi WOt , everything turned on .



still having good luck with the carter pump i bought from summit ... knocking on wood ... in the stock location since march of this year , over 23,000 miles since its install ...



vaughn , you didn't fall into the 1/2 inch pickup trap did you ??? ... oops ... .

 

[CUMINNTSTRKN]

bob



i have the holley red pump back by the tank and my stock upfront and it's been working for around 10-15k. the nice thing about two pumps, if one fails you can bypass it and get home.



jim

 

[BIG BOB]

Before I bought the Mallory pump and the Racor 45 GPH, 30 Micron filter, I checked with both suppliers about the filter and pump setup I was installing. Both companys agreed that the filter would be fine. Mallory told me that the filter needed to be a minimum of 50 micron, but after reading the information with the new pump, the directions say 40 Micron. Mallory also stated that I didn't need a regulator or a seperate by-pass line back to the tank, that being the fuel system was not a closed system (without a return line), that the return line would function fine without a regulator.



After the Mallory blew the fuse, a few days later, I replaced the 30 micron filter with a 10 micron filter.





According to Mopar-Muscle in the "pumps, lines & whatnot" thread, with the standard return line to the fuel tank, the maximum of 30 GPH of fuel can be returned. This mean with the 45 GPH, 10 micron filter I have 15 gallons of diesel to burn per hour. There is no way I can possibly burn that much fuel. Another thing is that the pump rating is a "Free Flow" rating. There is no pump on the market for vehicles that is installed in a "Free Flow" application!



I will call Mallory tomorrow and quiz them again about my setup. I will specifically ask them again about the 45 GPH, 10 Micron filter and a regulator and seperate return line.



Well, I will now have a spare pump in the emergency box of the "White Obsession"!



Steve Campbell,



As far as a splash guard, I have the pump and filter mounted on the inside of the frame rail. Every time I have looked at it, change filters or when changing oil, I have never seen any signs of anything splashing up on it or hitting it. I am not worried about that at all. Of course I don't go off-road 4x4ing with it either. If I did that, I might have a concern.



John,



I had the 30 Micron Racor on when I started having trouble with the pump. I questioned Racor about the restriction because of the Micron's. They told me that the filter will flow 45 GPH regardless of what micron filter I have on it. I know, but that's what they told me. If you look at their website, you will see that the microns do not change the flow rate of any of their filters. Racor



John and Vaughn,



I am not sure if there is a big difference of pulling fuel through a 10 micron filter (before the pump) or pushing it through a 10 micron filter (the stock filter)? I know that the lift pump is made to push, not pull so it might make a difference. I guess that's another question for Mallory.



I always buy my fuel at Flying J, they treat it down to 30 below. I also use Power Service fuel suppliment along with it.



Thanks everyone for your input! That's what make this site so great. A service center at your finger tips!



10,000 minds are always better than one!

10,000! Yes, haven't you noticed we now have over 10,000 members on TDR!

 

[Morphious]

I have the mallory setup also. I don't have a pre filter, but have one on my transfer tank, so it goes through there before it hits my truck tank. My first mallory lasted from Apr till Sept. but that was with over 60k miles on it. I am on my second pump and currently have about 20k on it. I change my filter every 10k miles when I change the oil. I have ss lines going from the pump back by the tank to the filter and then to the VP44 pump, with Aeroquip fittings all around. I don't think your setup is the problem, I have just worn mine out.



Morph.

 

[Bigsaint]

Bob, sorry to hear about the Mallory. I doubt the filter had anything to do with the pumps failure, seems like the flow was more than enough. For sure the filtration was good at 30 microns, as you stated Mallory calls for 40 microns. Should be interesting to see what the failure analysis states.



Well, at least you have a spare pump now. The only way we are going to find a pump that lasts is by doing the R+D. Certainly, the Mallory isn't as bullet proof as we (I) thought.



Here's what we have so far...



Nowel (HVAC) ran his for about one year, then he had to replace the brushes.



My first 4150 died after only 3 months of service, analysis stated that cavitation from debris caused the failure. I added a pre-filter and new 4150, so far all is well with new pump ( will be 7 months of service at the end of this month).



Morphious ran is pump for 60,000 miles(I believe)) ( Mallory 140) before failure .



CSutton has had alot of bad luck with just about all the pumps he has tried. Chris has been running a very high output Aeromotive pump for (6 months, Chris?). This one is still going strong.



DieselB5. 9 updated his entire fuel set up on his 12 valve rig this spring past and added a Mallory 4150, again, so far all is well. Chris is also using the Earl's screen pre-filter that I have.



If/when my current pump fails, I think the Aeromotive pump that Chris has might be my next step. It requires a bypass regulator with a seperate return to the tank. I know that we don't need 45 psi's and 300 GPH, but if the pump lasts, who cares.



I received a similar response from Century Performance in regards to a bypass regulator with the 4150, they said it's not needed as we already have a bypass in the VP44. I don't see how one could hurt though, seems like the pump would be much happier and I may plumb one in to the fuel lines this spring if my Mallory is still going strong.



Keep the faith, we will overcome this dilemma with more R+D !!!! There must be a pump out there that will last the test of time, when set up properly.



edit... DOH !!! Morph responed while I was typing my lengthy response. Thanks Morph !!!

Scott W.

 

[BIG BOB]

I forgot to mention that the Mallory Comp 140 is internally by-passed and set at the factory at 12 PSI. My new one is;



Idle 15+ PSI



Cruise 12 PSI



WOT/full power 6. 5 PSI



Since it came from the factory at 15+ PSI, I figure I'll just leave it there.

 

[John]

Hey Scott, I thought Chris had a Mallory pump with an Aeromotive in-line fuel filter???? If he indeed has an Aeromotive fuel pump, which model is it?... (they have added new pumps to their lineup) In addition, I'm curious as to which of the two Aeromotive in-line filters he is using... the 10 micron replacement paper filter version or the 100 micron stainless steel (screen) filter version????



I was thinking about going this route myself (Aeromotive electric fuel pump) prior to going to the Mallory... I can't remember the model number although, it's the horizontal style pump with the large cooling fins.



I Emailed Aeromotive a couple of times requesting answers to several questions I had about the use of their pump on my Diesel powered Ram however, I never received a response. That doesn't seem like a very good way to build consumer confidence.



BTW Bob, I turned up the pressure on my Mallory 4140M. Even tough I'm between 15-17 psi at idle (once the engine/fuel has warmed sufficiently), I can pull down the pressure all the way to 5 psi (but no lower... my SPA fuel pressure gauge warning light is set to 4 psi). I have a hard time believing that I can actually pull my pump down more than you (even though you have a Mallory 4150).



Also, if the Mallory pump pressure is readjusted you will need to reseal the set screw threads with silicone to eliminate any possible air (pressure) leaks. The following was per a Mallory tech. :



1) establish desired pressure setting and note set screw position



2) back off set screw one full turn



3) completely back off or remove jam nut



4) apply silicone 360 degrees around set screw threads at the juncture of the pump body and the set screw



5) retighten set screw one turn to previously established setting



6) tighten jam nut and remove excess silicone

 

[Bigsaint]

John, I'm pretty sure Chris S. is running the Aeromotive A1000, not sure on his filter set up.



Scott W.

 

[HVAC]

Mallory

Big Bob, what exactly broke within your pump?



Did the pump fail or the motor?



I would encourage you to pull the field coil off and see if you have a build up of dust from the brushes.

 

[Mopar-muscle]

bob , thanks for the link to that thread , i'm going to bring it back to the top ...



as far as the return , 30gph isn't the max that the return patch will flow , its the max i saw with DD2's , EZ and a HOT PE .



as far asthe return path from the VP44 , its from the internal lo pressure pump inside the VP44 , it doesn't return the excess that is building up in the line connected to it till it goes into the pump . the only reason i reccomend a return is that guys running 2 pumps seem to have too high a pressure in the lines and that is a potential problem point . how else can you explain the pressure at WOT of as high as one claim of 30psi ??? if the return from the VP44 is 14psi , how can you explain 30psi ???



scott , you really can't use dieselb5. 9 , the 12v is completely different animal , besides the 12 lift pump pressure is 29(??) psi ... .



big bob , i would be more than happy with the pressures you are seeing , the truck is not nosing over i'll assume ? if thats the case then you have more than enough fuel ...

 

[B. Gill]

Scott, the aeromotive pump is based on the Bosch design that i am using one difference i noticed is that the bosch, once it goes out you have to throw it away and seems like the aeromotive you can open and repair E. G. replacing brushed and stuff, but then price is almost double for the aeromotive so far my used Bosch from a Benz 420 SEL is going strong. also has anyone noticed that higher the pressure the harder is the starting ? i had to lower the pressure for this reason. my 2 C

bob

 

[BIG BOB]

I talked with Racor and Mallory today.



HVAC,

I haven't disassembled the pump. I talked with Summit Racing, (I purchased it from them, I thought I bought it from Century Performance but I found the receipt from Summit) they said to send it back. They didn't really say if it would be covered under warranty or not. I don't know if by disassembling it, I would void my warranty. I'll wait as see what they say.

Like I had said before, I blew a fuse, installed a new fuse and the pump started but had a knock for about a second then continue to run without the knock but a little louder. Dennis the Mallory tech said that usually ment that some debris was in the fuel and the pump was trying to break it up. I explained that the Racor with the 30 micron filter had been on ever since I installed the pump (about 22,000 miles ago). He didn't know what to think at that point.



After digging through all my receipts, I purchased the Mallory pump the first of June and the Racor around the 22 of June. According to some receipt for fitting I bought on July 6th, I must have installed the pump and filter on Saturday, July 7th.



Racor again told me that the 645 filter will flow 45 gph regardless of what micron filter I use. He recommended changing the filter every 10,000 miles.



Dennis the tech at Mallory, said that there should not have been a problem with the Racor 30 micron filter in front of the pump. He did mention that I should have bought the Mallory 40 micron filter that would flow over 100 gph. I explained that I had asked Mallory that question when I was purchasing my first mallory 140 and was told the filter was not compatible with diesel. He then told me that whoever told me that, was wrong. It will handle diesel. I also asked if I need a regulator, he again stated because of the return line I didn't need one. Again this pump has an internal by-pass.



Mopar-Muscle,



Thank you for correcting me on the gph of return fuel. I'm sure I had close to the numbers you have indicated.

I'm not familiar with the term "nosing over", could you give me the lay-mans terms for that phrase.



John,

I talked with Dennis the Mallory tech about the 15+ psi, he said it would be fine and not to readjust it.

 

[Bigsaint]

Originally posted by Mopar-muscle



scott , you really can't use diesle b5. 9 , 12v is completely different animal , besides the 12 lift pump pressure is 29(??) psi ... .

Well aware of the difference between Chris T. 's rig and the 24 valve rigs we have, fact remains that he's running a Mallory pump and that it has lasted to date.



Scott W.

 

[Mopar-muscle]

is chris using the mallory alone or as a pusher to supply the mechnical lift pump on the engine ??

 

[Bigsaint]

Not sure on that, Mopar... I'll see if I can get Chris to respond.



Scott W.