Archived lost a gallon of oil- getting engine pulled

[brisenhoover]

Cummins called this afternoon. , said they had the truck back together, just needed new gaskets on front cover and was headed for the dyno. Called back a couple hours later to tell me truck sounded funny, nixed the dyno, back in shop. They grabbed the bypass tube and said there was enough pressure to run an impact. Checked around and said number six was cold so they removed oil filter and cut in half to find it full of metal shavings. They said it was from having the pump turned up. Believe me, it's no 300 hp truck, but it DID a descent job pulling my 9000# trailer, but it wasn't like you couldn't feel it. It struggled up hills if I didn't hit them right, but I have an auto. Options are bore the #6 cylinder and ring it, or bore and sleeve it and they said they are going to send pump to Bosch to have it reset to factory specs or they won't warranty there work. Problem is the truck struggled to pull my 3500# pop up trailer when it was new. Now it will at least pull my 9000# trailer o. k. Can't believe that having it turned up like that would hurt this engine. The shop that did it has a real good reputation but Cummins said this isn't anywhere near the first truck thet have seen like this that this shop has "tuned up".

Not sure what to do. I've dumped thousands of $ in this truck to get it to pull somewhat descent and now the unstoppable Cummins died. The price of new trucks kills me. Now I have to dump thousands more in this and trade it off and spend tens of thousands on a new one. Don't want to do it. That's why I bought this truck new and payed it off thinking I could keep it for ever and pull just about whatever I wanted--Now back to square one or actually square -1. Any advice on motor?????



____________________________________________________



1997 3500 4x4 McClain Diesel engine upgrades, B-D trans, 5" cat back, AFE air intake,7 track bars to date, one poorly designed front end compliments of Chrysler Corp.

 

[ndurbin]

how long ago did u have it tuned up?

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Do you have gauges? What egt were you running? you can safely get a lot more power than you seem to be reporting to us, but if you don't do air system upgrades along with the fueling, you are asking for trouble.



After about 150,000 miles my poor old Sickly Ram still makes fairly good power

 

[brisenhoover]

The first tune up was about 3 years ago and the last tune up was around October of last year which consisted of a Dodge dealer rebuilding trans. w/ BD torque converter and pressure lock, then it went back to performance shop for "tune up". I don't have any guages on it but have never overheated rad. trans. or crank case, according to dash guages. This truck is nothing like I read about other members having. It was a modest tune. (in my opinion) I would never take it to the track, put it that way. I just wanted it to pull my trailer. HERES THE KILLER NEWS!!!!!!!!

Cummins called me back tonight with the estimate to fix... . First off they want $12xx. xx for repairs made which all they told me was they replaced gaskets on gear housing cover, truck still doesn't run. To fix the number 6 they want $7200. 00. They said that includes boring #6 I don't know if that is sleeving or boring and reringing, replacing turbo, oil cooler, innercooler because of metal shavings, and the 1200 I owe for the front cover gaskets, or I could just give them $11000. 00 that's right, $11000. 00 for a reman motor. Am I smoking crack or did they tell me $11000. 00 for a motor. Talk about being screwed. I need to get the truck out of there and fing a motor myself to put in, the catch is the $1200 they want just to release the truck!!!!! I guess I need to start searching for a motor. Maybe someone on here will have some info, it seems like everything else that happens, someone on here has an answer. Makes the membership worth it !!!!!!!

 

[Scrappy]

11,000 motor

Is that price for the motor AND installing it? If that is just the motor, give 'em their $1200 and run w/your truck. You should be able to get a motor for around $6k plus a$3k core that you will get back if yours is rebuildable

 

[brisenhoover]

$11000. 00 is installed including $1200 owed already. $11000. 00 on a $15000. 00 truck is hard to swallow especially if life expectancy is 100xxx miles.

 

[rashwor]

Without gauges...

you have no idea what level of "tuning" the performance shop did, or how hot Exhaust Gas Temperature (EGT) was getting. Excessive EGTs for any length of time will kill a Cummins. It has been reported here more than once, but rarely occurs to one of the members because most with power mods are running gauges. From what I have read, number 6 is usually the one that fries first with excessive EGTs.



Water and oil temps are lousy indicators of how hot the engine really is where the work is being done. You can fry cylinders, heads, and pistons and never get over normal operating temps on oil and water.



Gauges first, then "play" and "tune". I am really sorry to hear about your troubles. This is a real bummer. I don't know what I would do if it were me.

 

[Joe G.]

The very FIRST mod to make is an EGT guage! If you don't then you are asking for big trouble.

 

[brisenhoover]

Thanks for info/advice. Lesson learned on guages. What are they, probably a couple of hundred bucks. That was pretty dumb on my part not to have them, I figured it wasn,t that much of a "tune up" compared to all the upgrades other members have done with no problems BUT THEY PROBABLY HAVE GUAGES! This is one expensive lesson. I've been reading all this since 97 when I bought the truck and still didn't buy them. Unfortunately, the ol' Dodge has officially whipped my a--. I can't sink anymore money in it. She's gotta go. I'm going to sell it as is, I JUST put all new steering linkage, oem gear box (a fortune), upper and lower ball joints, axle joints,, trans. , with B. D. converter, press. lock, new tires, 5" exhaust, AFE intake, adjustable shocks, air bags, front calipers pretty much you name it I did it EXCEPT THOSE GUAGES!!!But I can't see putting in another 5-10 thousand dollars in it. I did all that work to avoid a truck payment, never even considered having problems with the Cummins. Truck still retails at $17xxx. so hopefully I can get around $10 for it with all the work that was just done. It is a great truck for someone who has a motor! Thanks again.

 

[Snow man]

brisenhoover,Im sorry to hear of your troubles. Who ever "tuned up" your cummins didnt do you any favors,the tune up should never have happened to a pulling truck unless guages were put in at the same time. If nothing else,hopefully this post will convince a few guys pulling to get guages . I think the Cummins is the toughest motor out there and can take a ton of bombing,but there is a misconception that you can do anything to it. You cannot run continuous high EGTS towing . I see al ot of guys pouring on full power(bombed trucks) with temp guages that are still on 140 degrees. My dad is one of them,he'll learn one day when he blows a head gasket or sticks a piston ruining the motor. If I was closer to MO,Id love to buy your truck.

 

[brisenhoover]

That's about the gist of it too. I was not afraid to drive it hard pulling thinking the motor was unstoppable. Thanks for the input.

 

[ndurbin]

I picked up a used block when my engine blew. It ran around 3300 for the short block. That was with labor. I got it out of a junkyard.

 

[dpuckett]

Sounds like to me the shop turning up the pump didnt install the boost fitting with the fuelling increase.

You should be able to find a good used engine (may be more than 100K, but mine still ahs the cross hatches at 260K) for around $4000. I can talk to a few guys I know that run junkyards here in the swamp if you like.

ISSPRO EV series pyrometer and boost guage was $200 delivered to my door with an A pillar pod. I run guages on ANYTHING that is turbocharged, esp since home is 6000 ft. Sounds like you might see about finding another Cummins shop to deal with. Sorry to hear about your troubles. More reason to trust the guys who support the TDR, and do business with them. Might be a little more out of pocket, but it should be quality work. Or do your own work.

Daniel

 

[Extreme1]

Sorry to hear about your misfortune. Lesson's learned. The most damaging treatment that a diesel can see is being turned up and hauling a load up a hill with high EGT's. Cross country puller's beware, it gets MUCH worse at altitude! Zipping down a drag strip is pretty light duty unless you are pulling a trailer or severly BOMBed and getting EGT's too high.



(Off my saopbox now... )



OK, first off, they charged you $1,200 for 1 gasket and 1 seal? Find out exactly what they did (leave the truck there for now) and then get quotes (in writing would be best) from other Cummins service places to do the repair only. Bear in mind that there will be a slight charge (should be less than a half hour) for the "diagnosis". Also bear in mind that when the oil is running out that fast, they probably should have looked beyond the gasket. I think you are getting the short end of the big stick for replacing that gasket and seal, it's a minor job and they should have noticed the noise when the truck was running prior to the repair (assuming they didn't push it into the repair stall).



Here's another note: a cold exhaust pipe doesn't necessarily mean a severly scored cylinder but the chips in the filter are an indicator that something has turned evil.



He's my diagnosis: (The cheap version) You burned a hole in a piston. The turbo pressure was too much to escape the breather and pressurized the crankcase forcing the oil out around the seal (most likely the gasket held). You might get by with a piston and bore (or less!) and get back on the road.



The Expensive Version: #6 piston failed (melted and/or broke) and (like above) that's where most of the pressure is coming from. But, you were towing a heavy trailer so #6, #1 and likely other cylinders had a very bad day. Figure a different short block and possibly a head if it was severely damaged by the piston failure.



The Bright Side: Turbo, intercooler and other parts should be OK.



Depending on what you find out that they did for $1,200 should guide our appraisal of their repair skills. If the KDP coincidentally fell out and the case was broken (which you said didn't happen) $1,200 is a deal.



If all they did was replace a gasket and seal (worse if they didn't do the seal which should have been leaking) they are overcharging you big time (which you will see by looking at the other estimates I recommend you obtain). If that's the case, show them the other reciepts and haggle the price down to where it should be. Then pay the bill and take it somewhere else. keep the fact that you are taking it to some other place in your pocket until you get the initial bill made more realistic.



Personally, I'd want to see the head off before a firm diagnosis is determined. I'm guessing a used shortblock will be the best way to go. Find a place that is on the good list of one of the shops that does work on these trucks (and hangs out here). Also, install the guages, even if you do get rid of it.



Sorry for the novel, good luck and keep us updated.

 

[brisenhoover]

Thanks for offering to check on engines. I have to give up on this one though. I've decided to cut my losses and sell it wholesale. You are right about supporting the vendors with the TDR, the shop I used here is a very popular shop, in fact it takes a couple of months to get in. I don't think he did the damage, it sounds like it was just my ignorance on not getting those guages. Spent today looking at trucks and saying how much I can't believe the situation I'm in over that truck. I've maintained this truck to a T. Spent ALOT of money on it and have had more than my share and probably alot of peoples shares of problems with the truck. Not knocking Dodge or Cummins, but I have worked in a dealership body shop for the last 15 years and have seen plenty of cars that just can't stay out of the service dept. and I have one. It's true of everything though, you can have a nice house and the guy next door can have a house built be the same builder and it has nothing but problems. Oh well, thanks again for your offer. This is one good membership to belong to. Lots of helpful people. Not always the info you want to here but it is the info you need to hear.

 

[DWendt]

Check out e-bay for a cummins engine. I have seen a couple of 12V & 24V on there in recent weeks both new ( rebuilt) and used. I would think you could get one cheaper than selling truck and buying new. Here are a couple of on there now.



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33615&item=2429878496



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33615&item=2429904673



Good luck

 

[DKayser]

used 5.9L

An older(Calmer driver) guy I work with has 93 2wd Cummins 250 that he wants to sell. It is a stripper, nopw,pdl,ac,nada. It don`t even have a tape with the stereo. BUT, it is only 130k, and he only wants 5G`s for it. New battery, recent brakes,clutch is firm and sheet metal is decent, especially for the price. You might be ahead to glom this ctd into yours & put the junk motor into the 93. Then sell it for whatever. Just an idea/option. Don.

 

[stacerbob]

Brian What is your truck? club cab short bed 4x4??? I may be or know someone interested in your truck. I also know of a used short block. Thanks.

 

[brisenhoover]

Sorry it took so long to respond, computer was messed up yesterday. I already sold the truck. It left Wednesday. Thanks for the help anyway.

 

[Joe Mc]

How Much? What are you going to get?

Sir,



I have been away for a while and just reading you sad story. Sorry to hear about all the bad luck. Thanks for sharing.



I'm hoping your story has a happy ending. So don't leave us hanging there MAN - finish the story . . . . How much did you get for your truck? . . . Are you getting a new one? Hopefully not a brand X.



Good luck to you whatever your decision is.