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Lost Fifth Gear!

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HIE turbo off a 8.3

VERY annoying brake squeak...

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the fix that works

Low cost ,simple to do.

Now copy after reading have been postint this for Mo's/years and past on to other non members when i pass a D/Chevy owner i can tel buy the eng(if running) if it is a auto or stick.

First if your unit is a aprox build date of mid to late july/early august 98 when you remove the rear cover you will find what is called the split nut with a set screw/ refered to the as a clamping bolt... ie. the factory fix.

I field tested it pre production and it preformed better Aprox 18,000 miles. In my case,I will add I installed a new main shaft to spec's for a fair test and it Held longer than the nut installed in 96,(first factory try at a repair) build date was late may.

When mine let go in aug of 96 i reused the flat face nut that i drove to a shop (not d/c) and got the use of there hoist and mech/tools to help.

I sent the parts man after a can of starting fluid and a small botttle of red lock tight,he also had to stop and pick up a lent out old style spanner wrench. The nut is round and has 4 slots.

I/we reinstalled the worn nut (after cleaning the shaft threads with a thread chaser,which i had on board.

Here is the step's

1 with the tail section removed spray down the nut and shaft area to remove lube film--Blow dry with shop air.

2 apply red lock tite to threads of shaft and nut,install

torque to 300-310 ft lb--here if you have the service manual

it will advise if you did want to purchase the miller tool #

6743 and had a 3/4 drive torque wrenchyou can tighten best way you can , ie old style spanner , then using a hammer and blunt chisle drive it tight

#3 and this is what WILL keep it in Place. Taking a 3/16 center

punch go up the nut a thread or two and with a 3 lb

hammer give it a tap to set the mark then put your back

/arm into it. . repeat at least 8 times around the dia. of the

nut. Remember what you want to do is drive the nut threads down into the shaft threads.

1 B. not knowing the nut you have it should look like a castle nut with out the slots... ..... It is also the nut that was superceded by the split nut kit now at you d/c out let. or call std trans and request the tapered nose NV nut ,think it is # 1875 (buryed in tax records)

Do you have to replace 5 th gear ?? No , i didnt at first,and ran it for 168k with only staking the nut 4 times,the repair was a n attempt to get me home, when i talked to the mfg'r with my results i found they had already cut a keyway in the shaft and tryed to stake once into the cut. . but didnt work and was comming out with the split nut set. I told them (after the split nut test) they didnt make up there mind to keep it in place,and i suppose they were worried about removeal by some inexperanced tec/parts cost/main shaft.

Do you need to replace the fifth gear NO... . I repeat,NO...

I posted this a couple weeks ago bruyed out there in ciber land
 
weld's

Now let's think back to those school day's--years when we may have pay'ed more attention(i learned to spell that one one week into the 2'd week of the second grade) to the other going's on/other S--,or/ maybe that was 7 th year---

mild steel out the door of the factory----

Now here we have a shaft were are going to apply x lbs of torque--- the steel just came out of the furance--what do we do to make it stronger than a dish rag???

Now what did i just do when i spot welded/tack'ed/spot /tig'ed

mig'ed what ever with what ever'rrr kind of rod... ... ... ???????

I took cooking ,any out ther to awnser the results????

Will it shear tomorrow ? nesx week/month, year,mile?????

Yes some time in the future! Doubt me? take a course in metallurgic,or welding 2/heat treating... . Or call Standrad transmission ask if they have ever seen a shaft that had the nut welded to the shaft !!!! and was it split in to like you cut it with a laser????

WE only have two choices to retain 5 th gear- std tran xxxx $ rebuild OR you use my fix , ( reusing OEM 5 th gear, do it your self, or a trusted mech) which they do just before having some one else chec k the repair and installing the rear cover. . Did you read the feature artical in TDR???



DO NOT APPLY WELD!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On the good side ,a new main shaft may only cost you $300.

shipped next day to af-gan-a-stand!!! Labor-Down -time maybe one should order a re-build and carry in in the bed.

Lets picture this shaft like say safty glass of the wind shield,get the picture??
 
splines

First--when i contacted the mfg of this (nv) transmission back in 97after doing a temp fix in aug 96 ---32 k failure--- in 97 when my repair came loose 168k later follow the math that but me at 200k reusing the oem splined 5 th gear and oem shaft and worn flat faced nut.....

Sorry J. D. yes you can do this fix in your drive way... UNLESS you installed putco deep stainless steel running boards front to rear and your chest is more than ten inches!!!(installed june 96)

The head eng'er said they couldnt get 60k let alone 160.

That is when i tryed there split nut. some in the group thought an extended spline was the fix,BUT,, my reuse put that to bed. and the fact that i use 5th when the eng will pull the load,which i drop into around 1425-1450 from day one ,and still--I've wrenched on & spec'ed many a big rig in the truck leasing workd and no-i repete no one buys an over drive and not use it when ever the rig will pull it with out lugging the eng... ... ... ... .

Have i cranked up the power on my eng?yes . around 150K.

What is the out put???never been on a dyno.

Fifth gear fix ... ... up to your wallet

1 get the superceeded nut (pre - split)

2 remove rear tail shaft

3 slid off loose 5 gear nut (you have to remove speedo drive

4 using starting fluid/brake cleen spray down shaft and nut to remove lube film

5 apply red loc-tite to nut and shaft--install and torque to 300-310 ft lb Miller tool 6743 and 3/4 torque wrench needed

or us the old style stanner wrench (claw hook)and 1/2 torque get close and then drive with a blunt end of a cold chisle and hammer. MIN 8 times around the diam of the nut.

THE KEY to re-tention

With a center punch (3/16) heavy hammer and strong arm drive the threads of the nut into the threads of the shaft. You have just made a strong loc nut.

My second fix using this method is still in tack, 750k.

minus out the 32k first failure, plus 168k + 49k (split nut) test

that comes down to 500k. with out an extended splined shaft,and a cost less than $100 (i already had the 3/4 t wrench)

2nd if you have the use of a hoist spend the saved $$$ and get a South Bend clutch input bushing machind the fly wheel and install,now you are manintance free.

Not my money , do what you wish,BUT remember if you have been a member long you heard it here first.

PS. take 1200-10 lb squealers away from ther mothers in 90 deg weather and 1000 miles to go,you cant be messing around .
 
Got the trans out and everything looks great, except for that nut. It just backed off,with little or no thread loss. I have the Standard Trans. shaft, gear, nut ready to go back in. I plan on putting new bearings, syncro's, spacers, and going with a South Bend clutch 0090 Con. 0. The stock clutch showed some wear, but was in pretty good shape.



It will be next week before I can get time in my schedule to get it back together. Will update then.



Thanks for the suggestions. I really beleave that I could have put this thing back together as it was with a new nut and gotten another 50k or so out of it, it looks that good. I am going with the new shaft, gear, etc because I do not want to do this again for a while and I have the money.



Big John
 
I promised an update, so here it is. Got trans back in truck, put exhaust brake on during the downtime, changed out exhaust springs.



Costs:

1. Shaft, gear nut from Standard Trans $500

2. Clutch from SouthBend $660

3. Blocker rings $135

4. Machine flywheel $40

5. 4" Remote mounted BD Brake

from Joe D. $700

6. Manual shifter kit for brake from Piers $41

7. Exhaust springs from Piers $61



Nothing new to add except one trick I learned while doing springs. The new springs must be "screwed" into the KD tool, if that is what you are using. This gives you extra compression before you actually start screwing down the tool. You will need this space to help get collets in due to the longer lenght of the new 60 punds springs.



Good to be back on the road again, smelling diesel fumes and shifting gears. Two weeks in a Toyota Corrola has driven me to the edge!! My wife keeps asking me "what is wrong with you" and all I can say is vehicular depression!



Big John
 
Have any of you with serious transmission problems considered

changing to something heavier duty like the old Clark 5sp? I imagine that there is a good reason for not upgrading to a medium duty transmission or this forum would be full of such descriptions.



I just put a new input shaft and bearing kit in my Getrag. I added an Eaton Filter Kit from Geno's, and I'm looking for a street L with enough reach to put in the fill hole so that I can run lube about an inch deeper. This has been expensive enough, but if I ever have serious trouble with this transmission, I hope that there is a lot better alternative for me than upgrading to an NV4500.
 
Mel Fuelling



I am not sure on your trans if there is a seal on the input shaft but you might run into a problem with a higher oil level by having it run out the input shaft/collar and onto your clutch.
 
When towing in fifth or sixth in the six speed, the overdrive ratio

creates more heat than 4 quarts of any gear oil can handle.

Compound that with the low rpm torque put on the fifth gear nut

from the cummins and the fifth gear nut becomes very diificult to keep on. The updated nut and fully splined main shaft was much needed.



In 1999 the Ford ZF manuals added an internal pump and a traditional cooler just like an automatic has. Our NV4500, 5600, and getrags often need more than 4 quarts behind the mighty cummins.



The oil in the Fast Cooler maintains a 10 to 15 degree cooler temp than the oil in the case itself. Check them out at www.fastcoolers.com



Fast Coolers



Verlyn Fast
 
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Originally posted by Mel Fuelling

Have any of you with serious transmission problems considered

changing to something heavier duty like the old Clark 5sp? I imagine that there is a good reason for not upgrading to a medium duty transmission or this forum would be full of such descriptions.




Well, I've heard about a fix using a Fuller RTO6610 10 speed Road Ranger. So far, I've had no problems with my trannie, but if it does die, I'll be looking into the RTO6610.



I've heard it costs about $2200 - $2500 for the trans, bell housing, etc. You have to supply an air source. A contact name and phone is:



Lane at Wholesale Truck Parts in Portland OR

1-800-547-1315



I'd love to hear more about this swap, but haven't gotten around to calling. Like most stuff, I tend to put stuff off until I have to get it done...



-cj
 
Here's just an mileage example for you

I was chatting with someone that has a 96 or 97 & lost 5th gear at 38k miles. This truck is 100% stock! However, he tows a 5'er full time. Since the dealer fixed it, he hasn't lost it & he's just over 100k miles now. He has the 3:54's & tows in 5th & takes it easy. He won't tow over 65mph.
 
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