Lot of diesel in the engine oil

[scarlton]

Has anyone heard of the 03's filling the crankcase up with diesel, so full that diesel and oil are pouring out of the blow-by. It had been in the shop for 2 weeks until friday they said they had it fixed. They put new feeder tube o-rings, Injector o-rings, and new washers on the end of the injectors (the little copper ones like on the 2nd gen 24 valves. I went down to the dealer the day they took all of my injectors out and the mechanic explained how he had never seen this problem on the older engines, so heres what I dont get if he had never seen th problem why did they put all these o-rings on because the all look exactly the same as they do on the 2gen 24valves. I know ther is more pressure in the injector on these engines so maybe the o-rings could leak , I thought. But sure enough I have to take it back monday. Becase it is still pouring stuff out of the blow-by and running very rough. Any Advice?

 

[ttreibel]

I know it is possible because it is happening to a lot of the Ford 6L owners. This is the first time I heard of it on a Cummins, I always smell my oil just in case there is a diesel pollution problem when I check it. I hope this does not leave you with any long term issues.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

scarlton I've never heard of such a thing either, and I've lived in the 3rd Gen forum since they started it over a year ago! I always thought the Cummins cylinder head was designed in such a way that it's virtually impossible for this to happen. It happens on the Fords because of the HEUI injectors utilizing engine oil to actuate them and that interface is where fuel gets into the oil. On the Cummins no oil passes into the injector so there is no place for fuel to get into the oil.



On the new Cummins system you do have constant high pressure fuel right up to the injectors, instead of very short bursts of pressure on the old design, so if there is a leak a lot more fuel will run in there than the previous 24 valve. However if the injector tube-to-injector interface design is still the same then any fuel that leaks here will run back to the fuel return and not mix with the oil. If fuel leaks around the injector large O-rings on the injector body keep fuel from getting out and into the oil.



The only thing I can think of is the leak was so bad that there was too much fuel escaping for the return system and it forced itself past the O-rings on the injector body and out under the valve cover and then into the oil sump.



When did you notice anything was wrong with your truck? I guess it pays to check your oil regularly. How much did your sump level increase? I hope they changed the oil right away. I would change the oil within 500 miles once they get it fixed to make sure, and send a sample in for analysis.



If your turbo didn't die (first thing to go when fuel gets in the oil) then you probably didn't hurt the motor too bad, but fuel in the oil is a scary thing



Vaughn

 

[scarlton]

they changed the oil friday when they said they fixed it and now after about one hour of runtime it is about 2-2 1/2 inches over the full mark, I gues that is when it starts coming out of the blow-by because thats where it was before. And how I noticed it at first was I started to smell fuel at Wal mart drove to the gas station (about 5 miles and noticed stuff dripping from underneath my truck and the back wheels were coated with oil/diesel so I checked the oil.

 

[daveshoe]

Please keep us posted on final solution. I think you need to get some sort of extended warranty on turbo or get a new or reman one now because of failure to fix on first attempt.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

scarlton I wouldn't drive it at all if I were you until the problem is fixed. It almost sounds like there is a casting or manufacturing flaw with the head that has an injector out of alignment or allows fuel to get around the injector. Have they replaced all the injectors? If they've done that and every other fuel system component I would say it's time for a new cylinder head.



Vaughn

 

[y-knot]

I guess that FORD problem isn't so funny??? Weird how what goes around, comes around. This one will be fun to watch.

 

[rashwor]

Bummer Man!

Sounds like you got a Dodge truck with a Ford 6. 0. The Ford 6. 0 is not supposed to be an option! Make them stick a Cummins in that puppy immediately!



Seriously, sorry to hear about your troubles . Let us know what comes out of this.

 

[Mad Bomber]

Fuel

My dad have his chebby 6. 2 rebuilt and the guy that did it forgot to put in a piston ring and the fuel washed into the oil,just a thought. Eric

 

[Mopar_Mudder]

No one mensioned that fact that he is running an Edge EZ. So what level are you running it at, not level 6 by chance???? They have run into some problems at level 5 and 6. Also what is your dealers saying about warrenty on this problem since you have the EZ on their, they could not warrenty it if they want to... .

 

[rashwor]

I was just thinking...

that when I get my 3G (currently dreaming) that I would stick with mechanical mods such as injectors, turbos, boost elbows, and a boost fooler.



Who knows what pressures the fueling boxes are bumping them up to and what the HPCR is engineered to withstand. Bunch more complicated electronics on the 3Gs. I forgot to look at his signature to see what mods he had the first time... .

 

[Steve M]

And Ynot posted,

"I guess that FORD problem isn't so funny??? Weird how what goes around, comes around. This ONE will be fun to watch. "



With the emphasis being "ONE". What's happening with the Ford 6. 0 is "many" to "most".



IF this thread is real and not a "even the score rumor", I hope the problem is fixed and simple.

 

[C. Harlan]

Do you do alot of excessive idling?? This may be a contributor to it as well... something to keep in mind.



-Chris-

 

[y-knot]

My bet would be the EDGE was taken off prior to going to the dealer, that's like and automatic , wash there hands of the whole deal. Also I to hope this is just a odd thing. But I do find the similarities quiet amusing, there does seem to be an "odd" common thread. Also he stated he went 5 miles and the thing was heaving oil out the vent, that's not related to extended idling issues. PLEASE keep us informed as to what they do.

 

[scarlton]

I drove it to the shop this morning (about 3 miles) and they said they have a rep. coming to look at it some time this week. The mechanic told me that he seems to think it could be the high pressure pump. The first time I took it in they told him to remove the pump and inspect the shaft for vertical movement so he put it in a vice and put a dial indicator on it and said it had. 004 movement but chrysler told him that was normal. Charlan I do not idle much. Vaughn I suggested new injecotrs but they are saying they are sure that is not the problem

 

[ntenna]

Originally posted by scarlton

I drove it to the shop this morning (about 3 miles) and they said they have a rep. coming to look at it some time this week. The mechanic told me that he seems to think it could be the high pressure pump. The first time I took it in they told him to remove the pump and inspect the shaft for vertical movement so he put it in a vice and put a dial indicator on it and said it had. 004 movement but chrysler told him that was normal. Charlan I do not idle much. Vaughn I suggested new injecotrs but they are saying they are sure that is not the problem

What you have is the classic symptom of at least one injector stuck open. Have had this several times on some Onan gensets with the smaller Cummins engines and mechanical pumps. Stuck injector= rough running and crankcase overfill in a short time - it ends up blowing out the draft tube and seals. The good news is I've seen them survive after dumping mix of oil and fuel all over the floor. Various things can cause it: Bad fuel, small piece of metal in the injector, poorly machined injector, or in this case specifically, a problem with the injector control pulses.



First step: isolate the rough cylinder or shotgun the injectors with all new.



Second step: If problem persists a new ECM is needed.



Good Luck!





Jh

 

[DPKetchum]

Took the ECM right outa my fingers. Started to post that last night and thought I might stay out of this one. But on EFI autos the Ecm controls pulse and use to provide a internal ground and if it went bad it would flood with gas. Even run and run poorly. Smoke bad etc. crankcase would be full of gas.

 

[Mopar_Mudder]

It seems to me like mensioned if you have a stuck injector that you should have a noticable amount of smoke and running rough as one cylender would be getting way too much fuel. This person never said that it ever run bad or smoked if I recal.

 

[ntenna]

Originally posted by Mopar_Mudder

It seems to me like mensioned if you have a stuck injector that you should have a noticable amount of smoke and running rough as one cylender would be getting way too much fuel. This person never said that it ever run bad or smoked if I recal.

Good point, but he did sort of say that... "Becase it is still pouring stuff out of the blow-by and running very rough. Any Advice?" (first post).



That's why I'm thinking stuck injector- Scarlton- was the engine smoking as well as running rough?



Jh

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Good point ntenna, bad injector sounds very plausible.



On the smoke & fuel subject I had a problem about 6000 miles ago where mine started pouring gobs of gray smoke out the exhaust all the time and smelled bad of rich poorly burned diesel. It was this way for over 1100 miles and the sump did not increase a smidge and the oil didn't take on any fuel odor whatsoever. My problem ended up being a bad ECM. The whole right rear of my truck was black!!



Bad injection pump? That doesn't make sense 'cause I don't think any engine lube circulates through the injection pump (but I could be wrong). 12-valve injection pumps have oil circulating through them and they may be assuming the same is true for all inj. pumps. Of course the 3G pump isn't really an injection pump but a high-pressure fuel pump.



Vaughn