Lot's of smoke.

[RLanham]

Installed 'Greenleaf' VE pump on my '93 D-250 and after eliminating air got it firing but putting out 'lot's of smoke'. I mean **** your neighbors off big-time smoke . Very white and makes your eyes water so thinking excess fuel? This is a stock '93 that was clean before so has to be pump? The injectors popped ok (couple hundred psi low) and I cleaned the tips v-e-r-y carefully with my fingernail before installing. The orifices looked ok. It looks like the AFC Star Wheel Adjustment(smoke control?) is next in my adjustments and wondering IF anyone can suggest backing it off to some 'factory setting' or just make 1/2-turn adjustments? I'll road it in the morning (when traffic is light) and see what it does under load. Kinda running blind here as I haven't put any guages on the truck so clueless on boost-press. or EGT. Appreciate any feedback from members . Bob '93 D-250, 60k miles, bought off eBay last month. Absolutely stock and no mods like instruments(yet),etc. Has Getrag trany and 3. 54 rear. Mileage was 25+ mpg before I pulled it into driveway from Texas and it started leaking from the VE pump and one tank of California diesel.

 

[bgilbert]

First off gauges are a must for any CTD. They'll tell you more than you can diagnose on your own. I don't think cleaning the injectors with ones fingernail is a very good way of getting them clean. Did you make sure you had one and only one injector sealing washer under each injector? Cummins book says for excessive exhaust smoke:



Engine running cold - white smoke.

Inadequate intake air- check air cleaner, restrictions.

Air leak betwn Turbo and Intake manifold- chk for leaks in IC boots, gaskets etc.

Exhaust leak at exhaust manifold/turbo.

Malfunctioning turbo.

More than one sealing washer under and injector.

Malfunctioning injectors.

Malfunctioning or overfueling injection pump... . hmm... . GL?

Piston rings not sealing - Blue smoke.



Also its hard to say much until you run it for awhile.

 

[paccool]

Bob, did you advance the timing a little like I told you about?



Did it go back together OK and there was no issues with the timing?



When you were getting the white smoke was the truck fully warmed up?



One thing you can check with GL about is where he set the fuel cone at. If he maxed out, you could turn it back down some until you get these problrems resolved. Same with the smoke screw but the white smoke is something I'm not sure the screw or the cone will fix. Did you get the wires hooked up on the KSB solenoid right? That is the one on the bottom area of the pump. That advances timing during cold startsand can cause white smoke if not working right.



Here is a list from the Cummins troubleshooting manual of things to check. I suspect timing as that is the area you were working at.



1)Coolant Temp too low

2)Inlet air temp too low

3)Fuel Quality Poor

4)Injector installed with more than one washer

5)Injectors malfunctioning

6)Coolant leak into combustion chamber

7)INJECTION PUMP TIMING INCORRECT

8)KSB problems

9)Injection pump malfunctioning



Hope something here helps



Stan

 

[Greenleaf]

Bob,



I'd suggest driving it first and warming things up a tad.



Because your injectors are off a couple hundred psi isn't going to help with the smoke.



The smoke you describe is only at slow idle speed right? Turning the cone and the spring preload adjustment will not help this. The pump isn't getting much fuel at slow idle speed. The cone is pushing the fuel pin back in all the way at no boost pressure.



Thicker washers under the injector tips will retard timing and cause less atomization of the fuel. Also clean nozzels will help eliminate the haze you speak of.



The smoke your seeing in known as haze in the diesel world. Smoke is when you leave an intersection and cannot see the car behind you. :-laf



I have new bus engines here that emit this "haze" when idling and is especially bad when the engine is cold or not up to proper operation temps. I cannot test run an engine in the shop with out the exhaust vented to the out-of-doors.



Your situation "would" be absolutely normal for a full-out pump mod, however you only have the 3,200 spring and a custom cut cone. Sounds more and more like a timing/engine temp and injection atomization problem.



Did the injection shop test your nozzels for leakage/dribble and spray pattern? You only mentioned they tested the pop psi. That simply isn't good enough.



Scott

 

[Greenleaf]

Bob,



I forgot to inject this. Because you mentioned "white" smoke, this is not the result of excess fuel. It is the result of incomplete combustion. Timing and atomization are the major contributors. Atomization can be broken down into a couple different catagories, most of which have been previously mentioned. Simply turning the fueling level "down" on the pump will have no effect.



If you wish to "set" your pump back to factory settings, simply turn the cone to the leanest setting, turn the star wheel up from the bottom one turn and back the full fuel screw out one turn. You'll have brought the pump back to OEM settings, other than the governor speed spring, which the pump won't know it has untill you speed the engine up beyond the 2800 rpm.



Hope some of this gives you some ideas.



-S

 

[RLanham]

Test run results.

OK did test run and still lot's (obscure a freeway type) of smoke and no power and detonation going up a steep grade. Somewhat better warmed up? Having a bad thought growing in my brain: Namely considering the timing gear is just floating inside the gear housing when the pump is out is it possible to make the gear jump a tooth (or two?) when putting it back together? Is there that much room in the gear housing? I didn't set the engine to TDC becuase I wanted the gear with the keyway up. This is looking alot like pulling the pump and finding TDC and putting the pump in on the factory timing mark :{ . I'll try it one more time with the pump on the mark (advanced 1/8" past factory mark now) but that's what it look's like, man I'm glad I don't wrench for a living :{ .

 

[RLanham]

Scott: I see where you're going. I'll pull injectors and have them re-popped. Perhaps I buggered them when cleaning? They previously popped ok and told me to run them another #40k so imagine they looked at leak-down and spray pattern and dribble. Pretty good shop. Atleast pulling pump will go faster now that I've done it once if it comes to that. You reconmend the wood dowel trick as far as finding TDC? Oh boy! Thanks Bob

 

[RLanham]

Stan: Don't think I have a problem with wire on KSB as it's the only that reaches. I'm ok on the washers on the injectors so IF I pull them I'll have them rebuilt ($40 each?). Also a little difficult starting so thinking it's getting air in the system sitting overnight. Previously the engine started easy and had no smoke. Looking alot like pulling the pump and retiming. Oh boy! I'll be pulling the starter sometime so was wondering IF you know what size those bolts are, they look like a 'star socket'? Thanks Bob

 

[Greenleaf]

The detonation can be timiming related. You should not have to pull the pump to retime as the pump will only go back on in one direction. Simply turning the pump on the mounting studs will do. The gear will not jump time inside.



You didn't mention what the color of the smoke is when driving it. Still white?



-S

 

[Greenleaf]

Sorry, for got to mention this. My truck was really -super advanced when I reinstalled my pump and also I increased the internal pressure. It was poping when running at idle speed so I backed it off some and it runs fine now. I cannot say on smoke, as I have a grey-ish color and lots of it at idle speed but the power is beyond what I was dreaming of.



-S

 

[RLanham]

Scott: As per reconmendation from Paccool (Stan) I checked KSB and wiring test good but switch seems faulty . I jumped the leads but don't see or hear much difference in smoke or rpm (it probably has never been a problem as truck was from Texas and Florida). Smoke is pretty much grey. I have the factory settings in the pump and the timing 'O' so will make a run around the block. Thinking I'll pull the injectors at this point? :{ Again thanks . Bob

 

[RLanham]

Just ran around the block, still smoking and absolutely no power. Only thing I can think of so I'll pull injectors and have them popped. Time to back up and punt. Sure am glad I thrive on challenges. Thanks Bob

 

[Greenleaf]

Sounds like a definite problem somewhere Good thing I didn't do any crazy stuff with the pump or we'd have more things to troubleshoot



I have read some time ago that if the fuel injection lines are not installed in perfect register to the pump/nozzeles, you will have an engine miss and she won't run well. Loosening the line mounting braces and loosening the lines at the nozzels the tightening the nozzel connections then re-tighten the line mounting braces seemed to resolve the problem. (This is mandatory for me to perform this on the ISB engines. )



You will not have to be at "exactly" TDC to time the pump. If your close, the engine will run even though the manual states differently.



The KSB switch on/off difference is very minimal. You have to have an "ear" for it you could say.



I have installed all my own pumps and do all my own work, therefore I cannot say if the installation was/is done 100% correctly. You have the only pump I have resealed and/or modified that was not R&R-ed by myself.



-S

 

[Greenleaf]

Sorry (again) Bob... ... I just remembered something. If I don't act when I think, I loose the info. (Tugboatphil can relate to this line of thinking )



The banjo bolt I (temporarily) installed into the pump's fuel bleed/outlet with the rubber bushing to prevent dirt from entering... ... ... ... ... . Please tell me that you DIDN'T reinstall this banjo bolt!!!! It's a full flow banjo that belongs on the fuel inlet side of the lift pump. It will not allow the pump to build any internal pressure, thus effect timing and fueling rates. PLEASE tell me you installed the fuel restriction/bleed off bolt



OK,then. Now we be thinking... ... ... ... ... ..... I'd hate for this to be something simple and have you remove the pump for nought.



Scott

 

[RLanham]

Smoking.

Scott: Hey what do you think I am? Stupid??? Second thought don't answer that. Saw the difference and figured you just did that to seal the pump up. YES installed that special banjo. I'm running over to my Mom's to look after her so will tackle the injectors durning the week. Speaking of stupid it might well have been some dummy scrapping the tips with his fingernail . Don't answer that either. One way or another we'll sort it out, hey it's a cummins! Oo. Thanks Bob

 

[bgilbert]

Hey won't lots of timing give off white smoke- at least til it warms up? I know mine will white smoke til warmed up- that is when temps are cold out, I've yet to run around in +50*f for any length of time with my Greenleaf 'built' pump. BTW you won't warm the engine block just by driving around the block.

No I doubt your fingernail can hurt those hardened tips.

If you plan on having your injectors rebuilt at $240, might as well buy some with a little more umph and will give you better fuel mileage, that is the Bosch 190's from PDR.



My guess is your way advanced. That I think will give white smoke, and you won't have hardly ANY bottom end, thus giving the impression- NO power. Since you've only run around the block, have no gauges, you might not of 'opened' her up to see if you have a ton of top end... ? Do you have the pinging, loud pitched idle from your motor now, result of high timing?

Are you sure you are getting plenty of fuel pressure to your pump?

 

[Greenleaf]

This is sorta the problem. I cannot "be there" to check things like the "sound" of the engine..... the fuel pressure to the pump... . the color of the smoke... how thick it is... . when it smokes ... . etc. etc. etc.



It's one of the reasons I was having second thoughts to a "mail order pump job"



BTW The pump isn't really my "signature BUILT pump" as Bob would have to install about three/four more gauges/turbo/lift pump/clutch etc. etc. etc. It's simply a re-seal and gov spring installation.



Bob, we take your word for it that the pump is low miles and that it operated just fine prior to the re-seal, not that you would try to pull something over. I'm just talking out loud here. Your pump has conciderable wear in the (old) throttle linkage/shaft and would suspect that is has much more than the reported mileage. Your break-over spring was worn half-way through... ... indicating high miles. Again, thinking out loud.



Me also is out of ideas... ... . me thinks that the price of installing new seals and the governor spring to future pump jobs has just included the cost of a full-out pump bench test.



Hope you find a problem somewhere. Whatever it might be.



Scott

 

[JLEONARD]

has just included the cost of a full-out pump bench test.

Sounds like a good policy to me for CYA sake

Jay

 

[Old Smoky]

"Namely considering the timing gear is just floating inside the gear housing when the pump is out is it possible to make the gear jump a tooth (or two?) when putting it back together? Is there that much room in the gear housing?"





I tried it one time just to see if it was possible. The pump gear can "jump a tooth" if the engine is rotated without the pump installed on the gear case, or by lifting and turning the gear. FYI.



Mike

 

[paccool]

Hey Mike, hope all is going well for you!



Question about the pump gear - Can the timing marks be seen looking thru the oil filler hole in the front cover? I don't think they are visible but was wondering if they can be seen using a small inspection mirror.



Stan