2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission low sulfur fuel is this a good thing????

[VHolloway]

low sulfur fuel what do we need to know

is it good for our trucks

 

[WDixon27]

guess ill find out as i just pumped my first tank sunday, a shade over 30 gallons at $2. 469 (cheepest diesel i've put in this truck since i bought it almost a year and 12k miles ago) id love to know exactly what it's going to do to my mpg but i just installed 4" straight pipes so i won't know positive as i am sure the pipes are worth a little over stock

 

[Extreme1]

The sulfur acts as a lubricant. Add a quality fuel additive that addresses the lower lube issue of the new Ultra Low Sulfur Fuel. You injector pump will thank you with a longer life.

 

[Diesel Nut]

I don't believe its the sulfur itself that is the lubricant, but in the processes required to remove the sulfur the lubricating quality in the fuel is lost.



Like posted, make sure and keep a bottle or two of a good quality fuel additive. My favorate flavor is this.

 

[SnoKing]

The sulfur acts as a lubricant. Add a quality fuel additive that addresses the lower lube issue of the new Ultra Low Sulfur Fuel. You injector pump will thank you with a longer life.

Sulfor is not a lubricant. Removing sulfur removes lubricants and it is added back according to government standards in ULSD and LSD. Study up dude! 99 percent of people never use additives and do not have issues. Additives = Snake Oil! (in most cases)



SNOKING

 

[Diesel Nut]

Additives = Snake Oil! (in most cases)



SNOKING

Well, I suppose we all have our opinions.



:-{} :-laf

 

[NoSeeUm]

Urch... .



One of the good things that should make us happy, other than the better air we will breath, is that that ULSD now has a lubricity standard. In the past there has been no standard and the fuel got what ever came out of the pipe at the refinery.



So.....



You can say it how you want, but to meet this standard the refiner will likely been adding some kind of "Snake Oil" to raise lubricity and meet the standards.



Jim

 

[Joe G.]

Do a little math with the amount of additive in a bottle vs a tank of diesel. It's kind of hard to believe that the stuff in the bottle can have any affect at all.

 

[2broke2smoke]

Study up dude! 99 percent of people never use additives and do not have issues. Additives = Snake Oil! (in most cases)SNOKING

AMEN BROTHER, i put a post on here a while back asking if anyone had scientific proof, fleet studies ... etc that supported the fact that additives make any improvement ... four pages of opinions ... not one solid fact at all ... the most impressive guys where the ones that quoted the manufacturers ads



i had a '91 with 275k miles on when i sold it ... original everything



my '01 has 140k on the original vp-44



and by this point in my cummins career i've saved enough in additives to buy a new motor :-laf

 

[rweis]

I think what the ULSF will do is make diesels much more prevalent in the US. AARP mag last month predicts by 2010 10% of all vehicles in the US will be diesel.



Allows a fuel standard that will foster diesel implementation as a powerplant. Clean, quiet, 30% better fuel milage because of the inherit function of the diesel combustion process.



I use Stanadyne PF fuel additive because I feel better about using it than not using it.



Bob Weis

 

[KKohagen]

Urch... .



One of the good things that should make us happy, other than the better air we will breath, is that that ULSD now has a lubricity standard. In the past there has been no standard and the fuel got what ever came out of the pipe at the refinery.



So.....



You can say it how you want, but to meet this standard the refiner will likely been adding some kind of "Snake Oil" to raise lubricity and meet the standards.



Jim

This is exactly on point. The refiners (Big Oil) are now required to add lubricity compounds per the new standard. In the case of my employer they are adding it at the terminals. That way no contamination happens while using the pipelines, overall smaller amount of lube needed to be added to maintain the minimum level, which is aove the previous levels, at least in the diesel me made in the past and now.



We should see very little change except maybe less smoke. I work in a sulfur recovery unit and unless the sulfur is around 303ºF the lubricity does not change (get better) much. Below ~ 265ºF sulfur starts to solidify and the viscosity goes up. When the temp goes above ~ 330ºF the viscosity also goes up. Right around 303ºF is just right, of course I am talking about relatively pure sulfur, but I have yet to see any change in my truck running on the new ULSD.



Only thing I have noticed is my truck is around 10-15 dB quieter. Oo.

 

[SnoKing]

This is exactly on point. The refiners (Big Oil) are now required to add lubricity compounds per the new standard. In the case of my employer they are adding it at the terminals. That way no contamination happens while using the pipelines, overall smaller amount of lube needed to be added to maintain the minimum level, which is aove the previous levels, at least in the diesel me made in the past and now.



We should see very little change except maybe less smoke. I work in a sulfur recovery unit and unless the sulfur is around 303ºF the lubricity does not change (get better) much. Below ~ 265ºF sulfur starts to solidify and the viscosity goes up. When the temp goes above ~ 330ºF the viscosity also goes up. Right around 303ºF is just right, of course I am talking about relatively pure sulfur, but I have yet to see any change in my truck running on the new ULSD.



Only thing I have noticed is my truck is around 10-15 dB quieter. Oo.

Good info, why do you think that it is quieter? BTW each 3 db is double the sound level going up and half the sound level coming down. So 10-15 DB is really a lot of difference in sound. Are you talking percent 10-15???



SNOKING

 

[JeepRig]

I have been putting a quart of cheap motor oil in on every fill up. It cost me about $1. 29. Don't know if I'm accomplishing anything but it makes me feel better and it's cheap. I know my pump is a lot quieter, so it seems like something is happeneing.

 

[Joe G.]

... four pages of opinions ... not one solid fact at all ...

I agree. If the thing is really quieter please post the DB readings before and after. I think all of the additives are a big rip off. I tried many of them and paid very close attention to the results. Nothing detectable. Did a little math and came to the conclusion "ya gotta be kidding me". If I want to feel better about my truck I can think of better things to do than get ripped off by buying snake oil.

 

[litespeed]

I quit using this stuff a long time ago.



I actually have had several Passat TDI's. In one of them the car had 180,000 miles. Never had a problem except regular maintenance. Never used additives before. I put half a bottle of silver Power Service in the tank. The next day the injection pump was leaking in so many places that I had to have the injection pump overhauled and re-sealed. I don't know if the stuff caused the leaks. I just thought it awfully ironic that I had had zero problems with the car until the "Snake Oil" was put in the tank.



Haven't used it since. And since then I have put another 170,000 on another Passat Diesel, 140,000 on a Chevy Diesel and 25,000 on the Dodge Diesel.



The left over containers are great for putting diesel in to fill the filter cannister during a fuel filter replacement.

 

[TGibbs]

The fact that a small bottle can mix with a full tank of diesel is simple chemistry. whatever is in the additive has enough of a concentration (or atleast we hope) that all the moecules are spread throughout the whole tank. Meaning every molecule of diesel has a small portion of the additive. It is like orange juice concentrate, a small frozen thing will make a whole jug. The additive is just a concentrate.



Now wether or not they work . . . . the manufacturers say they do so we should believe them right?? :-laf :-laf Hell who knows?? NOT I.



Tgibbs

 

[K5IP]

10 to 15 db quieter? db=10log p1/p2

10 db=10 times quieter

15 db=36 times quieter.

 

[SnoKing]

10 to 15 db quieter? db=10log p1/p2

10 db=10 times quieter

15 db=36 times quieter.

What????



If each 3 db sound level is twice as loud, then 10 would be 3. 33333 times as load and 15 db would to 5 times loud. Going quiet is the same 3. 33333 times as quiet or 5 times quieter. SNOKING

 

[NoSeeUm]

Do a little math with the amount of additive in a bottle vs a tank of diesel. It's kind of hard to believe that the stuff in the bottle can have any affect at all.

Hm... .



Hard to believe that a two stroke engine can run at 100:1 all day long at 8k RPM? But I hear your point, I often think the same thing.



I understand very little about lubricity break down due to part to part pressure or heat. But, the whole process can rely on a few molecules of lubrication thickness between the parts. Thats the level of protection that is required, so a very little can mean a whole lot.



The whole concept to me is like a "Go - No Go Situation" either you have enough lubricity or you don't. Confused as usual.



Jim

 

[Joe G.]

The point is that there is so little additive available in any part of the fuel that very few if any molecules of the additive lube (I wonder how much lube is in the additive vs other things) actually get involved with lubeing the injection plungers. It gets pretty diluted in 36 gallons of fuel. So of the "few molecules of lubrication thickness between the parts" how much is fuel from the station pump and how much is additive?